You are God for a day... - Page 5

China Cat Sunflower · 03-25-2008, 05:04 AM

It depends on how one defines God the Thing. What was God before he projected his image in order to create? Was Jesus there? In what capacity? Undifferentiated at that point? What does firstborn mean then?

Quote:

15He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible...

Colossians 1:15,16 (NIV)

It says that he's the firstborn, and all things were created by his agency. That is: by, for, and of him. I agree that use of "I am" is deliberately present tense to show continuity between the person Jesus and whatever office he occupied previous to his incarnation, but I doubt that it refers to the I AM of Exodus 3.

Chris

mee · 03-26-2008, 01:00 AM

John

8:58:

RS reads: "Jesus said to them, ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am [Greek, e·go´ ei·mi´].’" (NE, KJ, TEV, JB, NAB all read "I am," some even using capital letters to convey the idea of a title. Thus they endeavor to connect the expression with Exodus 3:14, where, according to their rendering, God refers to himself by the title "I Am.") However, in NW the latter part of John 8:58 reads: "Before Abraham came into existence, I have been." (The same idea is conveyed by the wording in AT, Mo, CBW, and SE.)

Which rendering agrees with the context?

The question of the Jews (verse 57) to which Jesus was replying had to do with age, not identity. Jesus’ reply logically dealt with his age, the length of his existence. Interestingly, no effort is ever made to apply e·go´ ei·mi´ as a title to the holy spirit.

Says A Grammar of the Greek New Testament in the Light of Historical Research, by A. T. Robertson: "The verb [ei·mi´] . . . Sometimes it does express existence as a predicate like any other verb, as in [e·go´ ei·mi´] (Jo. 8:58)."—Nashville, Tenn.; 1934, p. 394.

mee · 03-26-2008, 01:09 AM

And to the angel of the congregation in La·o·di·ce´a write: These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, THE BEGINNING OF THE CREATION BY GOD revelation 3;14

He is the image of the invisible God,THE FIRSTBORN of all creation; colossians 1;15

03-26-2008, 01:00 AM	#62 (permalink)
mee Executive Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 4,116	Re: You are God for a day... *John* *8:58:* RS reads: "Jesus said to them, ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am [Greek, e·go´ ei·mi´].’" (NE, KJ, TEV, JB, NAB all read "I am," some even using capital letters to convey the idea of a title. Thus they endeavor to connect the expression with Exodus 3:14, where, according to their rendering, God refers to himself by the title "I Am.") However, in NW the latter part of John 8:58 reads: "Before Abraham came into existence, I have been." (The same idea is conveyed by the wording in AT, Mo, CBW, and SE.) Which rendering agrees with the context? The question of the Jews (verse 57) to which Jesus was replying had to do with age, not identity. Jesus’ reply logically dealt with his age, the length of his existence. Interestingly, no effort is ever made to apply e·go´ ei·mi´ as a title to the holy spirit. Says A Grammar of the Greek New Testament in the Light of Historical Research, by A. T. Robertson: "The verb [ei·mi´] . . . Sometimes it does express existence as a predicate like any other verb, as in [e·go´ ei·mi´] (Jo. 8:58)."—Nashville, Tenn.; 1934, p. 394.

03-26-2008, 01:09 AM	#63 (permalink)
mee Executive Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 4,116	Re: You are God for a day... And to the angel of the congregation in La·o·di·ce´a write: These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, THE BEGINNING OF THE CREATION BY GOD revelation 3;14 He is the image of the invisible God,THE FIRSTBORN of all creation; colossians 1;15

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