Wrath of God?

[pattimax]

Could I please get some definitions? Also, is not "fear" equal to respect?

[wil]

Originally Posted by pattimax

Could I please get some definitions? Also, is not "fear" equal to respect?

For me, but I'm a heretic. I view us as children of G-d, Jesus as our elder brother and wayshower, and G-d a caring, compassionate forgiving Father. One big happy family... Wanna go to the amusement park? Dad's treatin! (as always!)

[pattimax]

Originally Posted by wil

For me, but I'm a heretic. I view us as children of G-d, Jesus as our elder brother and wayshower, and G-d a caring, compassionate forgiving Father. One big happy family... Wanna go to the amusement park? Dad's treatin! (as always!)

You know I disagree about the big brother theory, but that wasn't the question... what is considered wrath?

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by pattimax

Could I please get some definitions? Also, is not "fear" equal to respect?

Could be, but mostly the term fear can be used in lueu of "awe".

v/r

Joshua

[pattimax]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Could be, but mostly the term fear can be used in lieu of "awe".

v/r

Joshua

So instead of "Fearing the wrath of God", we need to be full of awe and respect what God is capable of. When the word "fear" is used in this sense, it does not mean fright or the opposite of love. It means that God stands by his promises.

[-James-]

To me, the wrath of God is him giving man up to his own lusts and impuruties; "a life w/o love". Love is his invisible nature, his eternal power and deity. His wrath is him allowing us to live life w/o him. See: Romans 1:16-32 The fear of the Lord is to simply fear life w/o his Love, or Spirit.


10. But unto us God revealed them through the Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11. For who among men knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of the man, which is in him? even so the things of God none knoweth, save the Spirit of God.
12. But we received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is from God; that we might know the things that were freely given to us of God.
13. Which things also we speak, not in words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the "Spirit teacheth"; combining spiritual things with spiritual words.
14. Now the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him; and he cannot know them, because they are spiritually judged.
15. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, and he himself is judged of no man.
16. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he should instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ



James

[pattimax]

Originally Posted by -James-

To me, the wrath of God is him giving man up to his own lusts and impuruties; "a life w/o love". "Love" is his invisible nature, his eternal power and deity. His wrath is being forced to live life w/o him. The fear of the Lord is to simply fear life w/o his Love. This is why I think we are to be doer's of the "word", and not just hearers. (Consider the parable of the talents.)


James

How can you fear a life w/o His love, if you don't know His love?

Karen

[-James-]

This is just my view, patti, so take it with a grain of salt. I'm of the mind that all have experinced pure love in one form or another. Not romantic love, or sexual, or anything of that nature, but that which is pure, and unconditional. We are w/o excuse according to this scripture.

Romans 1:18-20

18. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hinder the truth in unrighteousness;
19. because that which is known of God is manifest in them; for God manifested it unto them.
20. For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity; that they may be without excuse:

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by Romans 1

God's Wrath Against Sinful Humanity
18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of human beings who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal human beings and birds and animals and reptiles.

24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

A hard teaching from Paul to be certain, and as Christians we can't just throw it away. But, we can read it in the light of the Gospel, and what we know about God from Christ.

This passage by Paul is about the fallen nature of humanity and about idolatry. The creatures ignore the Creator, as Rev. Peter Gomes says, and they became the objects of thier own worship and veneration, ...worshipers of self, caught up in their own egos, and they gave to created things the glory and dignity that belong to the Creator.

We become what we worship, and when we give ourselves over to the worship of lesser gods, we reap the consequences of this. God gives us over to our sins and we are punished by them. God lets us follow our own corrupt ways, lets us "bottom out." Thus, God's wrath is His withdrawl from us. But only so long as we have turned away from Him.

No understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy, by our own choice.

[-James-]

You explained it much better than I did, Luna. I came across this scripture just tonight and had a hard time with it at first. You have made it even more clear now then before, so thank you. I'm not sure what you mean about becoming what we worship, tho. I worship God as life and Love; the creator and the spirit behind his creation. I don't see how any can even imagine becoming close to that kind of glory. The best we can hope for is to be active in HIS spirit.

I was speaking with my mother tonight after bible study, and we were talking about how we are NOTHING w/o God in our live's. Without him, we can do nothing worthy, righteous, good, acceptable, etc. We are completely lost when we do not have him in our lives, and what hell it would be to not have his Spirit with us at all. Then came up Romans 1

It's struck me funny that we were talking about the fear of the Lord, his wrath and what it means to US, and then when I get home, I see a new thread directed at this topic.

My ears are open, and I'm looking forward to hearing other views.


James

[mee]

"Come, you sons, listen to me; the fear of Jehovah is what I shall teach you."—PSALM 34:11.
There is fear that is good and fear that is bad
It is awe of Jehovah, a profound reverence for him, coupled with a wholesome dread of displeasing him. (Psalm 89:7)

This fear of incurring God’s displeasure stems from appreciation for his loving-kindness and goodness. (Psalm 5:7
godly fear draws us to Jehovah.—Deuteronomy 10:12, 13; Psalm 2:11.

Serve Jehovah with fear

And be joyful with trembling.

[Saltmeister]

Originally Posted by pattimax

Could I please get some definitions? Also, is not "fear" equal to respect?

I think it depends on the context. In the sense that I obey and respect the Law, I fear the Law. In the sense that I obey and respect the Government, I fear the Government. In the sense that I obey and respect the Authorities, I fear the Authorities. In the sense that I obey and respect God, I fear God.

[pattimax]

Originally Posted by -James-

This is just my view, patti, so take it with a grain of salt. I'm of the mind that all have experinced pure love in one form or another.

:

Beautiful sentiment- that is the way it should be. But it is NOT. This attitude may contribute to the condescending, Christian caricature.

[wil]

We are punished by our sins not for them.

That sums it up to me. You know those one way parking lot entrances, where if you back up or drive out the wrong way they puncture your tires? Well it seems like that to me. I think that is the wrath of the parking lot designer.

Our glorious creator put this universe together, and in it put all these little system. Go the right (righteous) way thru life...and your tires don't get punctured... decide you want to do it your own way, go against laws of nature (natural laws which were put in motion by our creator) than face the wrath. G-d doesn't have to pick and choose, it is us that was given free will that chooses to be punished by our own actions...sowing and reaping, sowing and reaping.

I don't believe we are ever without G-d...source is there, everywhere, everytime, waiting for us to come around. Not waiting for us to start worshipping, or praying or beseeching or making empty promises...waiting for us to be grateful for the bounty, waiting for us to be the good samaritan, waiting for us to love our neigbor...sowiing and reaping, sowing and reaping....

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by -James-

I'm not sure what you mean about becoming what we worship, tho. I worship God as life and Love; the creator and the spirit behind his creation. I don't see how any can even imagine becoming close to that kind of glory. The best we can hope for is to be active in HIS spirit.

We can live a God centered life and we will become like Christ. Not that we are Christ.

20 That, however, is not the way of life you learned 21 when you heard about Christ and were taught in him in accordance with the truth that is in Jesus. 22 You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; 23 to be made new in the attitude of your minds; 24 and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.

luna