would you vote for a jewish or muslim President of the U.S.?

[Bandit]

Are we voting for a political leader here? or a religious leader? Since it is the president, that sounds like politics to me.

Voting is a political discussion. One thing I cannot stand is someone bashing someone for there vote or why they vote the way they do. AND someone trying to convince someone to vote the same way they do.
It is my right as a U.S. citizen to vote for who I FEEL is best. No, I would not vote for any nominee for president of the U.S. who is anti Christ or against the bible. OTH- Just because someone says they believe does not mean they believe & so, I may not vote at all.

Reguardless of religion, from what I learned in government, voting is a right & not an obligation until the voter makes it his obligation. Reguardless of religion or what religions are being asked about there vote it seems to me this is a political topic & not a religious topic. It may be better discussed there.?.

[BlaznFattyz]

dont you think that is a little naive to say politics and religion dont go together, regardless if you think its right or you feel you wouldnt vote a certain way, obviously most of america does vote a certain way, or maybe muslims or jews never aspire to become president.

1 George Washington Episcopalian 2 John Adams Unitarian 3 Thomas Jefferson raised Episcopalian
later in life, belonged to no specific religion
held many Christian, Deist and Unitarian beliefs 4 James Madison Episcopalian 5 James Monroe Episcopalian 6 John Quincy Adams Unitarian 7 Andrew Jackson Presbyterian 8 Martin Van Buren Dutch Reformed 9 William Henry Harrison Episcopalian 10 John Tyler Episcopalian/Deist 11 James Knox Polk Presbyterian/Methodist 12 Zachary Taylor Episcopalian 13 Millard Fillmore Unitarian 14 Franklin Pierce Episcopalian 15 James Buchanan Presbyterian 16 Abraham Lincoln raised Baptist;
later no specific denomination 17 Andrew Johnson no specific denomination * 18 Ulysses S Grant Presbyterian/Methodist * 19 Rutherford B. Hayes Methodist 20 James A. Garfield Disciples of Christ 21 Chester A. Arthur Episcopalian 22 Grover Cleveland Presbyterian 23 Benjamin Harrison Presbyterian 24 Grover Cleveland Presbyterian 25 William McKinley Methodist 26 Theodore Roosevelt Dutch Reformed;
Episcopalian 27 William Howard Taft Unitarian 28 Woodrow Wilson Presbyterian 29 Warren G. Harding Baptist 30 Calvin Coolidge Congregationalist 31 Herbert Hoover Quaker 32 Franklin Delano Roosevelt Episcopalian 33 Harry S. Truman Baptist 34 Dwight D. Eisenhower Jehovah's Witnesses
Presbyterian 35 John F. Kennedy Catholic 36 Lyndon Baines Johnson Disciples of Christ 37 Richard M. Nixon Quaker 38 Gerald Ford Episcopalian 39 Jimmy Carter Baptist 40 Ronald Reagan Disciples of Christ; Presbyterian 41 George H. W. Bush Episcopalian 42 William Jefferson Clinton Baptist 43 George W. Bush Methodist
(former Episcopalian)

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

dont you think that is a little naive to say politics and religion dont go together, regardless if you think its right or you feel you wouldnt vote a certain way, obviously most of america does vote a certain way, or maybe muslims or jews never aspire to become president.

Presumptuous perhaps, but not naive...

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, Bandit!

from what I learned in government, voting is a right & not an obligation until the voter makes it his obligation.

I grant you this. You are correct, voting is a right, not an obligation.

I have long viewed it difficult to criticize the process if I am not a active participant. If you don't play, you really haven't got room to say. Remaining outside of the "system" only gives free-reign to the system. What good is your "no" vote outside of the system?

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, BF!

dont you think that is a little naive to say politics and religion dont go together, regardless if you think its right or you feel you wouldnt vote a certain way, obviously most of america does vote a certain way, or maybe muslims or jews never aspire to become president.

And how many are Freemasons, etc? I mean, we could go off into all kinds of arguable tangents, which I really agree with Bandit would be better discussed, if at all, in the politics section.

For here, in brief, I would say America is a nation of change. We adapt, we diversify. We now have a Hispanic Cabinet Secrtary (I want to say Attorney General, no low ball position...Bobby Kennedy was Attorney General). Last summer, I want to say July, US Census Bureau noted Hispanic population outnumbered all other noted ethnic groups in the US, including white and black. Census was predicting Asian population to outnumber Hispanic in something like 30 years. Who's the majority?

What will the American population look like in 30 years, and who will hold positions of power? Including, as noted here, how many more politicians will be of other ethnic groups and religious cultures? What will things look like on the ground for the everyday citizen? Can the dominant "religion" in the broad sense be able to coexist peaceably with the rising religions? Or is all the rhetoric to incite riot?

On paper, the right for the major world faiths in particular, and a whole lot of "lesser" ones too, to coexist peaceably is the intended goal. Can America put its money where its mouth is? Can Americans who hold the Constitution as their government of choice rightly and freely discriminate against any other American, (or stranger within its shores,) of another faith? I answer "no!" Your question begs to pit the two (or more!) faiths at odds with each other. The end result is this: "Can you as a Christian coexist peaceably in the same society with; Catholics (forgive me Q, I say this this way for a reason, and it is not meant for offense, just understanding), Buddhists, Muslims? And what say you of Jews? What about Native American traditions?" So, while we're at it, how about getting along peaceably with anyone else who can get along peaceably, as long as they do no harm to the society. Better still, if they have something to contribute to society. And by the providence granted these industrious people a society is built. On our shores we accept the poor downtrodden huddled masses, who in turn take these opportunities to apply themselves and create a nation. That is America.

Christians don't like politics in general. Like I think I mentioned already, Christians in my experience have been taught to fear the system. The system is awesome, and as with any system if you run afoul of it, your life can become unpleasant. Of course, there is the option, if you are uncomfortable with the American system, of leaving it behind and throwing your loyalties to whatever society you choose to go to.

Hey, if you find a better place, let me know. I always thought Tahiti. Maybe someday....

[Quahom1]

Not me Juan Buddy.

I am into the political observation and analysis up to my ears! In my opinion (as an aside), a no-vote is the same as a vote. By not voting, one does not have the potential to cancel out another's vote, therefore one vote for someone/thing and a no-vote really equals two votes for someone/thing.

Case in point: the Sunnis of Iraq, in recent elections of that country...

I think it is every citizen's duty to get out and vote one's conscience, not just a right.

But then don't vote, and then don't argue with what you get, after (not a point at you Juan).

v/r

Q

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by juantoo3

Kindest Regards, Bandit!

I grant you this. You are correct, voting is a right, not an obligation.

I have long viewed it difficult to criticize the process if I am not a active participant. If you don't play, you really haven't got room to say. Remaining outside of the "system" only gives free-reign to the system. What good is your "no" vote outside of the system?

If you don't play, you really haven't got room to say

it is called freedom of speech
reguardless of voting & who is in office. you vote & your candidate loses, your vote is worthless. BUT, you still have freedom of speech & the constitution.

voting is an obligation when i make it an obligation, because a leader makes me feel obligated to vote for them. Then we have the votes for the lesser of two evils .
i have not remotely trusted the 'system' or a President since Jimmy Carter.

i vote when i feel obligated to vote for politicians, not because someone else is trying to force me to vote (just because i SHOULD) as in VOTE OR DIE, or YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO SPEAK, if you dont vote.
I vote for the candidates i like & feel confident in. i do not have to push all the buttons just because they are there.
if i dont like anyone for certain offices then i don't vote. That is my right & not the loss of freedom of speech or the loss of that right.

a lot of people later seriously regret ther vote. what good is that?
a lot of people just push buttons & dont even know who the candidates are, just because they are some far left or right winger. what good is that?

Because someone does or does not vote, does not put them in or out of the system. That is far from the truth. Someones vote for, can also put them & others outside of the system in more ways than one, because they believe a lie.

That is why we have City Hall, State & Town meetings etc...these are the votes that concern me & not some power control freaks who lie for some temporary global power, where your opinion does not matter just because you voted.

Juan, you vote how you like to vote & I will vote the way I like to vote.
this is nothing more than opinions, about voting.

i am not real interested in a political discussion under Christianity. i see some serious problems with it being here (especially the heading). it is about the same thing as preachers pounding politics from the pulpit. IMO
I can speak on this issue, But my vote 'play' on it so far, is apearantly worthless.

i have said all i care to say about it & everyone else can leave me out of it from here as i will not be adding anything else to it. Thank You

[InLove]

LOL--not naive at all .

[InLove]

Hi y'all, Peace--

This thread is going everywhere--sorry if my answer is out of sequence.

I will pray about my vote, because I am glad to live in this country. My vote is personal, and I will do my best to use it for the good of the people here and in the whole world. If there comes a time (and there has, once) when I cannot sincerely vote for anyone, then I will pray for enlightenment and divine guidance. (And, by the way, if that means abstaining, then that is my right, also.) I live in a great, beautiful dream that some may see as an experiment--I can actually see that point of view. So what? Is it not beautiful either way?

I do not know how history will see it, I only see it now. I endeavor to understand its past and why would I do anything but hope for its future?

Personally? I love Jesus. Do I believe politicians who ride on His coattails? Only if I have evidence in the Spirit. And by the way--why does everyone keep insisting that this is "one nation under God" and then keep crying about "separation of Church and State?" I do not think it is about to be resolved soon, because I'll bet you it is an issue close to the hearts of all Americans. All Americans.

I live in a great place of freedom--a democracy (maybe a republic, but as soon as we get rid of the electoral college, that might not be true anymore . I just don't know.

Anyway, I could say a lot more--mmnfhugh for now.

Happy Independence,

InPeace,
InLove

[InLove]

Hi, Everyone, and Peace--

By the way, there is no half-hour grace period to edit if you log out--once you log out, that is done most of the time (for anyone who still wonders, or might need that info).

Okay, so why did I log back in? ( I am getting old--trying to remember--brb--oh yes--)

Would I vote for a jewish or muslim President of my country? I might. It is my right under the constitution. I might vote for anyone. I can. I might vote for no one. I just wish there was a place on the ballot for that: "I vote for none of them, because none of them represent the principles upon which this country was founded" Say what you like, but this is my right.

InPeace,
InLove

[BlaznFattyz]

Published on Sunday, January 2, 2005 by the Denver Post

Who Owns America's Moral Values?

by Jennifer Wheary

As we come to the end of what will surely be known as a banner year for "moral values," it seems only appropriate to reflect on the place of religion in American politics and daily practice.

Much post-election punditry equated Christian beliefs with moral values and suggested that Christians were the most unified and potent force in politics in 2004. This oversimplifies America's relationship with religion. It gives a false impression that a monolithic interpretation of Christianity exists among us and that religious devoutness equals red, and red (never blue) equals morally right.

Oversimplification of American religious belief and practice is a brilliant political strategy. It polarizes our society and mobilizes extreme positions at either end of the political spectrum. While two opposing, irreconcilable viewpoints duke it out, real issues go unaddressed.

How did we get here in 2004?

Step 1: Imply that America's moral values rest solely in a Christian tradition.

Step 2: Fuel the misperception that the best advocates for those values are the most fundamentally strict adherents to this tradition.

Step 3: Suggest that you are fundamentally more moral than the other guy.

American religious practice is less conservatively Christian and much more diverse than campaign slogans and sound bites suggest. In reality, no one party has a monopoly on religious believers, and the moral values the majority of Americans support have a lot more to do with fairness, equality, responsibility and dignity than the hot-button issues that dominated 2004.

Ten years ago, 90 percent of American adults subscribed to an organized religion. Today, only 81 percent do. Seventy-seven percent of the country is Christian, according to the most recent American Religious Identification Survey. But more than 48 million American adults are non-Christian. These include individuals who devoutly practice Judaism, Hinduism, Islam, Buddhism and other religions, as well as those who are agnostic and atheist.

The number of Americans who identify with a religion other than Christianity grew by 32 percent in the last decade, while the number of Christians grew by only 5 percent. The number of Americans who do not subscribe to any religion more than doubled in that time period. In fact, this group is now more than 14 percent of the population. That is larger than the percentage of conservative evangelical Christians who supposedly turned the presidential tide in 2004.

According to the Pew Forum on Religious and Public Life, nearly two-thirds of Americans believe that the government should be fighting poverty by taxing the wealthy, and close to 60 percent want to see strict environmental regulation as well as an active role by the government in helping the disadvantaged. Close to 60 percent of the country believes that gays and lesbians should have the same rights as other Americans, and 85 percent believes abortion should be legal in at least some circumstances.

Americans are evenly split about whether organized religion should be involved in politics. Roughly the same percentage of Americans (39 percent) sees religion as important to political thinking as sees it as unimportant (37 percent). And while 39 percent is still a substantial number, it's down from 2000 and 1996, while the percentage of Americans who see religion as unimportant to political thinking is actually on the rise.

While moral values did emerge as a top issue in this year's exit polls - cited by 22 percent of respondents - its prominence largely depended on how the question was asked. Moral values also only barely nosed out the economy (20 percent) and terrorism (19 percent) for the top spot. In reality, the issue of moral values was far less important in 2004 than it was in 2000 and 1996, when 35 percent and 45 percent of Americans named it a top priority.

Still, if moral values is the story of the year, let's at least get that story straight.

American moral values do not belong to just one side, to one Western religion or Christian tradition, to so-called red states - or to blue ones, for that matter. American moral values are, by definition, ours - all of ours. These values include equality, social and economic justice, environmental responsibility and democracy. They are rooted in philosophical and ethical beliefs that run deep and over which no one group has a monopoly.

One of the most dismaying aspects of this year's election was the attempt and relative success on the part of extreme partisans and conservatives to hijack the meaning of moral values and to recast guardianship of them as the special privilege of a few. More than a few of our officials owe their election or appointment to this hijacking.

The year leaves us with no doubt that Americans believe strongly in the moral values of fairness, equality, justice and democracy. Our leaders should remember that support of these values is a responsibility, not a partisan political opportunity.

Jennifer Wheary is a senior fellow at Demos, a public policy organization in New York City.

© Copyright 2005 Denver Post

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, BF!

American moral values are, by definition, ours - all of ours. These values include equality, social and economic justice, environmental responsibility and democracy. They are rooted in philosophical and ethical beliefs that run deep and over which no one group has a monopoly.

Thank you for validating what I posted earlier. I just see this with a little bit more positive spin.

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, Bandit and InLove!

Regarding not voting, yes, that is a valid way of participating if it is done correctly. Like going to the poll and casting a blank ballot. Yes, that seems somewhat contradictory, but at least it is participation.

Freedom of speech, to criticize those in office, may be the right of citizens. But as with anything, do you listen to those who critique anything who are not involved? Do you ask a grocer how to repair a plumbing problem? The grocer has the free right of speech to voice his opinion, but unless he has any experience repairing plumbing I would take his advice with a grain of salt... Same applies to critiquing the government, if you do not put your two cents in to remedy what you see as wrong, you can voice your opinion, but it means little to those of us who do what we can to actually make things work. Make sense?

[Awaiting_the_fifth]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

I would not vote, however, for a Athiest

Originally Posted by Quahom1

considering this is a land of the free, home of the brave, and free of bigots, your statement is disheartening

A mixed message there I feel. May I ask why you would not vote for an Atheist?

Also

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Why? Read the First amendment. If you don't know what I'm talking about, you've got more problems than me, because you're living in a country you don't understand.

Could you explain it anyway, for us funny foreigners?

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Awaiting_the_fifth

A mixed message there I feel. May I ask why you would not vote for an Atheist?

1. An atheist by definition, leans on his/her own understanding of the world. However, the great majority of the people of the United States (close to 89%), believe in a power greater than ourselves guiding us, our nation, our lives. We desire someone who we choose to lead our nation, to also have that basic belief.

It has also been taught to the major monotheistic believers, that only a fool says there is no God. Hence, though we may accept an atheist as a neighbor with rights to believe as he/she chooses, the thought of one leading us as our President, is unsettling at best. In fact it flies in the face of the founding principles of this country's documents of law, establishment and Constitution.

Also
Could you explain it anyway, for us funny foreigners?

2. You can find no better explanation for anyone (funny foreigner or not), than the three links on my post on the Law of the Land. They take you to the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution and Articles, and the Bill of Rights. You find them here: Laws of the land



v/r

Q