Wotanists?

[I, Brian]

What are Wotanists specifically, in terms of belief, practices, and inspirations?

How do Wotanists differ specifically in these ways from other NeoPagan groups?

And how are Wotanists generally perceived in the NeoPagan community?

Questions.

[--IlluSionS667--]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

What are Wotanists specifically, in terms of belief, practices, and inspirations?

Practices : search for inner strength and harmony, and a lifestyle according to the principles of natural law

Originally Posted by I, Brian

How do Wotanists differ specifically in these ways from other NeoPagan groups?

Unlike modern new-wave religions, natural law is the center of their ideas. They do not do rituals, but seek contact with the divine by means of meditation or other individual means to do so. There are no general rules. The only rules there are is to respect natural law, to respect those who do not hurt you or your beloved and to protect your beloved.

Some take the Gods literally, but more only take them symbolically.

Originally Posted by I, Brian

And how are Wotanists generally perceived in the NeoPagan community?

There is no real NeoPagan community. There is a wiccan community, there is a LaVeyan community, there is an Asatru (Wotanist) community, ....

I assume that most people consider Asatru people (Wontanists) as extremists, because of their stong beliefs in natural law.

[bgruagach]

Originally Posted by --IlluSionS667--

Practices : search for inner strength and harmony, and a lifestyle according to the principles of natural law
Unlike modern new-wave religions, natural law is the center of their ideas. They do not do rituals, but seek contact with the divine by means of meditation or other individual means to do so. There are no general rules. The only rules there are is to respect natural law, to respect those who do not hurt you or your beloved and to protect your beloved.

Question: what is "natural law" and how does one know if they are in accord or in conflict with it? I would say that if "natural law" is outlined in any way, then it is essentially a list of rules even though it might not be called that.

(It reminds me of how most religions claim their particular scripture or interpretation of scripture is "God's law" or "God's word" or "God's will," which is really just another way of calling it "natural law" and trying to imply it is somehow an extra-human list of rules.)

Originally Posted by --IlluSionS667--

There is no real NeoPagan community. There is a wiccan community, there is a LaVeyan community, there is an Asatru (Wotanist) community, ....

That is certainly one perspective, but there are plenty of people who would disagree. I have heard people say there isn't such a thing as the larger "gay community" because it can be identified by specific subgroups like lesbians, gay men, transsexuals, bisexuals, etc. But we in the larger "gay community" seem to be able to act like a community and hold events like annual pride parades, etc. despite the existence of subgroups. I've witnessed the same with the larger Pagan (or if you prefer, Neo-Pagan) community. The only thing that stops any of us from coming together in community are our self-imposed limitations.

[I, Brian]

I know other Asatru, and they live by a warrior's code and sense of honour - that's the focus for their sense of the world. Male-bonding beer-drinking machoism with purpose and history.

What IlluSionS667 is refering to is the killing of the extermination of the "weak" in society, and I'm not at all convinced that this is a standard Asatru ideology.

[Quesocoatl]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

What are Wotanists specifically, in terms of belief, practices, and inspirations?

How do Wotanists differ specifically in these ways from other NeoPagan groups?

And how are Wotanists generally perceived in the NeoPagan community?

Questions.

Wotan is more tribal than ..ceremonial. In Asatru, one is allowed to have their own conception of God and still be a "member", so to speak. It is more a point B...than a point A.

It is all-encompassing like Wicca or Islam but....differs in that key aspect.

[Sisetekh]

That is certainly one perspective, but there are plenty of people who would disagree. I have heard people say there isn't such a thing as the larger "gay community" because it can be identified by specific subgroups like lesbians, gay men, transsexuals, bisexuals, etc. But we in the larger "gay community" seem to be able to act like a community and hold events like annual pride parades, etc. despite the existence of subgroups. I've witnessed the same with the larger Pagan (or if you prefer, Neo-Pagan) community. The only thing that stops any of us from coming together in community are our self-imposed limitations.

Those self-imposed limitations are what make us less than a community. I don't really think there is a real "Pagan Community," either. When I see Pagan Pride events, for example, I don't see "paganism." I see "Wicca and things close to it." Think about it: They usually hold them on Sabbats, they talk about it as if everybody believes in "the God" and "the Goddess," they do things that make people like me look completely out of place there. I wouldn't be comfortable going there, my belief system isn't the same.

[bgruagach]

Originally Posted by Sisetekh

Those self-imposed limitations are what make us less than a community. I don't really think there is a real "Pagan Community," either. When I see Pagan Pride events, for example, I don't see "paganism." I see "Wicca and things close to it." Think about it: They usually hold them on Sabbats, they talk about it as if everybody believes in "the God" and "the Goddess," they do things that make people like me look completely out of place there. I wouldn't be comfortable going there, my belief system isn't the same.

Events are only going to involve things that the organizers think are relevant. If the organizers are predominantly Wiccan, and no reconstructionists get involved, then what will likely be the emphasis?

These issues are not unique to the Pagan community. The gay/lesbian/bisexual/transgender community deals with these issues all the time, and has on occasion been extremely successful in coming together as a whole community. Other religious groups do the same. It's not an impossible task.

Even if we look at just Wiccans, there are innumerable subgroups -- Alexandrians, Gardnerians, eclectics, solitaries, etc. Yet they seem to be able to come together in larger cross-tradition events like festivals, etc. It's all a matter of the subgroups choosing to get involved and speaking up for their own interests.

I'll repeat the point that the our self-imposed limitations are the biggest reason for being alienated from a larger community. If we don't allow ourselves to get involved in the larger community, then why should we expect the larger community to bend over backwards to try and represent us?

I wonder, too, if the "victim mentality" is part of the problem with these self-imposed limitations. It's easy to assume that we won't be welcomed into the larger community because we're discriminated against ("poor me!") and so we don't even try to speak up or reach out. There are always excuses to not try if we look for them. But once we get over that and actually reach out, we often discover that we're really not as unwelcome as we had convinced ourselves would be the case. (Again, look at the example of the gay/lesbian/bisexual/transgender community -- both as a larger community itself, and how that community fits in with mainstream society.)

[Lokke]

Hail, all!

This post seems to've been dormant for quite some time, but when I came across it, I couldn't help myself. I had to write something. What was posted here in reply to I, Brian's questions just seemed totally off base and wholly unsatisfactory. If anyone is still interested in Asatru and its practices, I'll leave this here for them to peruse at leisure, which I hope they will.

Let me start off by first saying, however, that the bulk of this is my UPG, and that if I insult anyone, they probably need to stop being so sensitive.

Asatruar, or "Wotanists," are people that have chosen to take up the folk religion of pre-Christian Europe. Asatruar honour the Shining Gods and Goddesses of Asgard, honour their ancestors, and honour the wights of the land and the home. Of course, there are the divisions: reconstructionists and revivalists, universalists and folkish Heathens, etc. These are more viewpoints than anything, but there are also different forms of the religion itself, while the term "Asatru," in my opinion, acts of something as a blanket term. There are differences, for example, between Ealdriht and Irminenschaft.

Asatruar aspire to live honourably and die with a reputation they can be proud of. They aspire to live by the Nine Noble Virtues: courage, truth, honour, fidelity, industriousness, hospitality, perseverance, self-reliance, and discipline. Most of us also aspire to be lore whores, but it's not a requirement.

--IlluSionS667-- said that Asatruar "do not do rituals, but seek contact with the divine by means of meditation or other individual means." This is far from the truth. Anything that paints a picture of Asatru as a primarily solitary religion ("other individual means") is way, WAY out in left field. Asatru is very centered on community. Asatru is about kith and kin (and we do consider the Gods our kin), about serving one's community. Asatru is about family. In fact, ancestor veneration is a huge part of it. We also very definitely DO practice ritual. The main rituals are blot (rhymes with "boat") and sumbel. A blot is a sacrificial ritual where one makes an offering to the Gods (or to a specific God or Goddess). This is a gift to the Gods, and gifts strengthen relationships. It's not a bribe or something done out of fear, but a way of sharing and deepening a connection. Sumbel consists of three (generally) rounds of toasts (usually made with mead, of course). There are different ways to do it, but often the first round is dedicated to the Gods, the second to ancestors, and the third is left open for personal boasts, songs, poetry, etc.

--IlluSionS667-- also stated that "there are no general rules" and that "more [folk] take [the Gods] symbolically." These are sort of iffy statements. First off, every religion has its code of ethics, even if it isn't printed directly in some book. Aside from living by the Nine Noble Virtues, Heathens look to the Havamal for general suggestions on living. As for being literal or symbolic in their view of the Gods, of course there are folk on both sides of the fence, but I have not met with an overwhelming amount of folk who take the Gods as mere symbols or personifications of thunder, rain, etc. This is merely my perception, but it seems to me that it is rather the opposite, and more folk see the Gods as real.

Asatru differs vastly from most neopagan groups, in my opinion. For starters, many folk dislike the label "neopagan" very much and never use or condone it. Many folk resent being tossed under the neopagan umbrella, and I am one of them. Asatruar do not, as a general rule, accept the "all gods are one god" view. Those who do are most likely Wiccatru, a fluffy bastardization of a legitimate pre-Christian religion. Heathens do not have anything remotely similar to the Wiccan Rede; there is no "harm none" rule. Magic does not play a huge role in Asatru. Heathens don't go around waving wands and casting spells. We have no organized clergy or degree systems. Asatru is a very practical, grounded religion. It just doesn't have that sickeningly sweet, New Agey top coat that many neopagan religions seem to carry.

Aside from those differences, Asatru is very often referred to as the religion with homework, and this is with good reason. Most Heathens consider the core body of our lore (The Poetic Edda, The Prose Edda, the Icelandic sagas, etc.) essential if one is going to take the religion seriously.

As for the general perception of Asatruar, it differs. We're seen as people who like to play dress up (some groups wear period clothing), people who are stuck in the past, people who spend more time reading than doing (simply because we read a lot doesn't mean we don't balance it with doing!), people who just like to drink a whole lot, and even neo-Nazi racists (some folk think one needs to be of northern Europen descent to have a rightful place in Asatru). Most of these are exaggerations at best, gross misconceptions at worst. Also, a lot of people seem to think that Asatru is just for big, tough macho men, or that the path is demeaning to women. I'll tell you right now that I happen to be a woman myself, and Asatru is anything but cruel to its ladyfolk. Our Goddesses are strong, clever, proud, and are in no way lowered beneath our Gods on account of gender.

I hope that clears up some views on Asatru.

In frith,
Lokke

[I, Brian]

Hi Lokke, and many thanks for taking the time to provide your in-depth explanation - and welcome to CR.

[Lokke]

And thanks for the welcome!

[gwenwifar23]

Wotan (or Wodan or Odinn) is the teuton god of the sky. He has one burning eye (the sun) which he hides in the ocean each night.

Odinn once was Yggr (the dreathful one) until he hang himself on the tree of worlds Ygg-drasil. After nine nights and days he sung the runes and was liberated from himself. After that, he was called Odinn of Wodan.

The power-animal of Wodan is the wolf. His priests are were-wolves or Ulf-hedh-nar. (Ulf means wolf, hedh means hide or skin, a nar is an initiated person who is death for his sibbe (family) and tribe.) To become an Ulf-hedh-nar, you have to kill the wolf, your lower-self, and eat its heart.

This is how the course Yggdrasil® of Andreas Firewolf starts. Once you have killed the old Yggr you can travel through the tree of worlds and you become its guardian. The tree-of-worlds is similar to the tree-of-life of the QaBaLaH.

Unfortunately for most readers, the course is in dutch. Andreas Firewolf is the only "wotanist" I have ever met. Dutch "Asatru" followers are very much against him, because his teachings are so different from what they teach and believe.

To become a werewolf you have to hang for nine days in a leather bag. That is the tradition. Andreas Firewolf did that in 1988. Since that time he teaches Yggdrasil®.

In Netherland we have sinterklaas, a festivity like christmas. Sinterklaas is a bit like santa claus, but he rides on a horse (the eight-legged horse Sleipnir which is a symbol of the sun) over rooftops. In ancient times this was the start of yule or "between the years", a period of half a moon. At the start young man (Yolasveinar or yule-youngmen) came to the sibbes and took boys away who had reached puberty. They were put in a leather bag and hung on an ash-tree for three nights. After this initiation they came home as a young man with a new name and a new identity. The boy was hung on the tree and a new person was born from the tree. So people were called "children of the ash-tree".

Allthough I am initiated by Andreas and am a student of him, I am not a werewolf. We are not a cult with a creed to be followed. You get guidelines to discover your own power-animal and your own path. My power-animal is a cat and so I am a were-cat or Volva or Wolwa. My role-model is not Odinn or Wotan, but Freya, the goddess of the Walpurgis-night. She is the goddess of love and free sexuality, of orgies and sexual power. I am like my role-model.

In ancient times you had were-wolves (ulfhednnar) and were-bears (or bersekrs). The were-wolves got bad press and then were abused by hollywood. In ancient times they were just priests and teachers of the people.

If you want to read more visit:
http://www.andreas333.com/eng/shaman/

[Iomharr]

I thought I'd chime in on this older thread.

Originally Posted by I, Brian

What are Wotanists specifically, in terms of belief, practices, and inspirations?

How do Wotanists differ specifically in these ways from other NeoPagan groups?

And how are Wotanists generally perceived in the NeoPagan community?

There are many different variants of the Germanic religion. As far as I know Wotanism is different from Asatru in that it has a heavier focus on politics and race. Most Germanic reconstructionists don't see WOTAN-ism (distinct from Odinism) as a very positive thing.

Originally Posted by I, Brian

What IlluSionS667 is refering to is the killing of the extermination of the "weak" in society, and I'm not at all convinced that this is a standard Asatru ideology.

You are correct. The "extermination of the weak" has absolutely nothing to do with Asatru.