Wil....

[Paladin]

17th,

Thanks for opening up this thread, I think it will serve to both remind and open folks up to whats going on inside them. We often get so caught up in our isms and techniques that we forget why the hell we started them in the first place. I've been a twelve stepper now for nearly ten years and sometimes when listening to someone share about something they did or thought wasn't "spiritual" I think "how do you know?"

The mere fact that we can be aware of our own behavior and thoughts seems to imply a deeper process at work, therefore we cannot be our thoughts and behaviors. Sure we can repress our anger, sarcasm and be a better person with an ego that is more shiny and pretty than before, but it is still an ego, a simulcrum, just another idea in our head of who and what we are, and I suspect that we are still way off base.

I continue to ask myself, just who is it that wants to be more kind, more loving, more compassionate? Further, if I succeed in demonstrating these qualities, will I be any closer to real understanding or have I just created a more socially acceptable construct of a human? is there something deeper that drives me to want to change, and what is that thing, that essence I am striving for?
When you, 17th, ask how to change, it reminds me of all these things, therefore I am grateful for your instruction

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by Ciel

Hi, 17th,

So you want to want.......just do.

Forget the history...... it's a new day.

And you know the first step in forgiving others is first to forgive yourself.

Try without trying.

Smile..... it's okay either way.... you will dumbfound the "enemy" and make good connections with others and surprize on surprize a smile returned creates more smiles and before you know it.............

Ever read a man called Osho? Rebel Guru and friend of mine.

Tell you something..... I've read you on this board as a good guy, no matter what you say.

love - c -

The start of that post I did expect something along those lines... The last paragraph though was quite suprising... Thanks?

Originally Posted by juantoo3

If I may, Angel, I struggle with some of the same anger issues as you. Its taken me quite some time to realize, but I am beginning to understand more deeply that anger is an emotion, and we do have some control over our emotions. As a clerk, I have to deal with people all day long at work. All of the "professionalism" training I received in school only gave me thoughts to consider when I was calm, and seldom entered my mind when dealing with a...problematic...customer. Over time I began to see that creating adversarial relationships with people I deal with on a frequent basis added to my problems...so I try, mostly, to alleviate that. Its a lot easier to deal with folks on a day to day if one can have a constructive relationship, if not even "friendly." Then there are the occasional patients or family that are difficult to deal with, and it is hard to keep in mind that a person in pain or dealing with health issues may not be pleasant to deal with, or concerned family / friends may be a bit demanding. Still, my position requires that I try. It is really difficult at times.

I think the most eye opening experience for me was when my dog did something (don't even remember what) that provoked my ire. Now, I was set up for this by my physical therapist in a conversation we had. I noticed that I was angry, but I was "outside" (or inside?) of myself, I could see myself getting angry and didn't seem to be able to control it. I was watching me. And I found as the anger began to subside that I was able to control it and calm down much sooner. When I remember to do so, I try to step aside in my mind and rationalize whether or not my anger will be constructive. It seldom is. When I have such presence of mind, I find I am able to lay aside my anger and deal with the situation much better. I accept that I have been angered, but that anger will not solve the problem, and then I seek a solution to the problem.

Doesn't always work, I am still a work in progress, but I do try. I don't get angry quite as fast anymore, but I still have moments.

Like Wil said: practice, practice, practice. There is a switch, if you can find it and learn to make it work. A lot of us, myself included, forget (or don't know) it is there. It is alright to be angry, but to get lost in anger to the point of forgetting that anger doesn't solve the problem is where people like me get into trouble.

Thank you, for such a meaningful thread.

You may...

You anger/violent problems? Wow.... A clerk? That's a person who sits in a shop isn't it? Dealingwith customers face to face? I wouldn't be able to hold a job like that... I am too blunt, and I will say what I feel and I like highlighting on others stupidity....... *sighs* This is a long path to travel lol... But will keep practicing.. I do honestly say to myself in the shower every morning words to encourage me to try and smile and be polite... It will come some day.

Originally Posted by wil

That is just it...your higher self, your "I am" is not at fault... Not I am sorry, but I apologize, not I am in error, but I made a mistake...nuance...but no need invoking the burning bush in affirming a negative....

from the past...

Hmmm "I am" I don't see the importantce of that small phrase...

I am quite upset about that... That upset... I(me..lol).

I don't get it lol...


Paladin... You're welcome !!!

I thought yeah, not just for me, but this would be helpful to others... Like I keep saying I'm trying but ain't we all? There must be times we all slip up and those even further down this path then me still must slip up... And I guess this could offer advice...

[flowperson]

Hello All... THE DUDE ABIDES !!!

flow...

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by flowperson

Hello All... THE DUDE ABIDES !!!

flow...

The dude, abides..... Well I don't know about you, but I take, comfort in that. It's good... Knowin' he's out there..... The dude..... Takin' 'er easy for all us sinners... Shooooooooooosh. I sure hope he makes them finals....

[wil]

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

Hmmm "I am" I don't see the importantce of that small phrase... ....I don't get it lol...

To me it is the multitude of little things that make the whole...

Fake it till you make it...I am healthy, whole, happy, and loving...great affirmation and the more you say it the more you'll believe.

I am stupid...lousy affirmation, and the more you say it the more you'll believe it.

Remember when we were told what posture can do for us...try this one...

stand ... (posture only works if you physically try it)

now..stand...feet shoulder width apart...a little wider...slump your shoulders...really relax them...chin onto chest....now look up straight ahead with your eyes and say... I am intelligent.

Now we used our I am...but our body language didn't allow it to be...did you feel intelligent?? Straighten up, chest out, shoulders back, head erect, deep breath...I am intelligent...

little things...posture...invoking your higher self...powerful little things...

[17th Angel]

"I am friendly and slow to anger!"

Animals - Please don't let me be misunderstood...

Baby, do you understand me now
Sometimes I feel a little mad
But don't you know that no one alive
Can always be an angel
When things go wrong I seem to be bad
But I'm just a soul whose intentions are good
Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood
Baby, sometimes I'm so carefree
With a joy that's hard to hide
And sometimes it seems that all I have do is worry
Then you're bound to see my other side
But I'm just a soul whose intentions are good
Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood
If I seem edgy I want you to know
That I never mean to take it out on you
Life has it's problems and I get my share
And that's one thing I never meant to do
Because I love you
Oh, Oh baby don't you know I'm human
Have thoughts like any other one
Sometimes I find myself long regretting
Some foolish thing some little simple thing I've done
But I'm just a soul whose intentions are good
Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood
Yes, I'm just a soul whose intentions are good
Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood
Yes, I'm just a soul whose intentions are good
Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood

[Ciel]

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

The start of that post I did expect something along those lines... The last paragraph though was quite suprising... Thanks?

17th the "?"........ no question.

Ever considered dropping the questions?

Are you a good guy or a bad guy, no, you are who you are, you just have to find out who you really are......the balance of you standing between the yes and the no. It is at first a strange place to be because in the beginning you will feel nothing at all. Stranger in a strange land, the land of self meeting self for the first time. And it is the same for others..........

- c -

[17th Angel]

C, I only said Thanks? Because It seems quite strange for someone who hardly knows you to percieve you as a good person... I kinda think that is nice of you.

[wil]

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

C, I only said Thanks? Because It seems quite strange for someone who hardly knows you to percieve you as a good person... I kinda think that is nice of you.

Sorry my brother, I took it wrong as well...the 'thank?' being like me, questioning compliments, not being good at gratitude...

And just so you know, despite the sarcasm, dark humor, devil's advocate ways....many of us see through that veil and how caring, compassionate and thoughtful you are....it comes right through...

as absolutely evidenced by this thread.

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by wil

Sorry my brother, I took it wrong as well...the 'thank?' being like me, questioning compliments, not being good at gratitude...

And just so you know, despite the sarcasm, dark humor, devil's advocate ways....many of us see through that veil and how caring, compassionate and thoughtful you are....it comes right through...

as absolutely evidenced by this thread.

My "Thanks?" was rude? Sorry...

Yea maybe I am getting there.... Maybe... lol

So practice is obviously the most rewarding and learning part to get better right? And some time to yourself to think things over and to try and grow in understanding? I am still getting used to this stuff let you know how it goes Meditation is something I probally wouldn't do.... My house is too busy for that... I would have my dogs jumping all over me :P

[Tao_Equus]

An alternative technique may be to get all the anger and vitriol off your chest in one swoop each morning. Buy yourself a "posh spice" doll on ebay and every morning give it a diatribe of your worst.
Just a thot.

[wil]

Yes anger must be released in some form...key...not to let it form in the first place...again takes a while...but things like divorce, foreclosure, bankruptcy, accelerate the learning process...my recommendation would be to learn the skills without having to go to the extreme challenge courses listed above.

Four Agreements, Miquel Ruiz...Yes you can change the world, Aman Motwane...good stuff.

And no the 'thanks?' wasn't rude....just an indication of the process.

Again...my interpretations. Your mileage may vary.

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, all!

Originally Posted by wil

Yes anger must be released in some form...

I think this is important. We will get angry from time to time, it is natural and normal. How we deal with anger is another matter.

Long I have struggled not realizing that anger is not an end unto itself. Flying into a rage is unhealthy, but being angered is not. Anger is one more form of emotional outlet. Anger shouldn't be silenced, in my opinion, bottling it up inside is unhealthy. Pretending it doesn't exist is not healthy either. The key is in finding constructive ways to vent the anger, into finding solutions to prevent further anger. Along with realizing that we should control our anger instead of letting our anger control us.

[China Cat Sunflower]

I wasn't asked so maybe this is extraneous...but I'll say what I think anyway. I'm not you and you're not me, so this is just my take from my experience.

I think that anger is a good thing. You can use it for an energy boost if you can figure out how to focus it. I think that most times anger is self-destructive, and it's potential for good is wasted. Righteous anger is one thing. Adrenaline rush anger is another. But I think that most often anger stems from two emotional sources: Impatience number one, and feelings of powerlessness second. Most often it's a combination of those two motivators. If you want to control your anger you have to look carefully at what's causing it. How it builds up and how you release it. I'm not saying I'm totally in control of my anger, but I do know how it works. You can't just "control" your anger. You have to understand the emotional processes that cause it.

Chris

[wil]

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

I wasn't asked so maybe this is extraneous.....

I think that anger is a good thing. You can use it for an energy boost if you can figure out how to focus it.

Namaste Chris...

Open forum...anyone responds...I'd like to hear more on focusing/harnessing. I know that I have issues with suppressing/ignoring and I think it leads to a malaise/depression...of course that for me is undiagnosed and I ain't know doctor.

I know in Power V. Force on the levels of consciousness anger is above grief, apathy, fear, guilt...and can be used to accelerate one out of these issues..