Why Don't Jews Sacrifice Animals Anymore?

[InChristAlways]

Originally Posted by ICA
I found this site interesting and maybe you can give your view on it. It is a greek/hebrew/english interlinear and I am using it along with other translation sites to translate Daniel chapter 11 as I mentioned in another post. They use it for their "own" translation and put the KJV side by side with it to compare it.
Shalom and peace.

http://www.scripture4all.org/index.htm

Unfortunately, I am not entirely savvy on what Tanakh translations are sound. I have been told by learned Jews that the translation in the library at www.chabad.org is good as well as a couple others. For personal reading, I have an Artscroll Stone Edition Tanakh, and while its ornamentally beautiful - I've been told that the translation and commentary is somewhat suspect. (much to my chagrin).

As for the Christian Bible, I've read almost every major protestant version available: NIV, NASB, KJV, NKJV, Amplified, and Living. When having to utilize those texts in discussions, I prefer the NASB.

i personally prefer to read the original and then kind of anthologise my own translations based upon the JPS, the "jerusalem bible", kaplan's "living Torah" and "living Nakh" and, on the web, http://unbound.biola.edu, which though a fundie protestant site has at least the advantage of multiple versions and wearing its prejudices on its sleeve.

b'shalom

bananabrain

Hi B. Have you ever looked at this Bible site? It has dozens of translations [including the JPS 1917] but what is so nice about it, after you set it up for "multiple", it can bring up a lexicon at the bottom for a single verse, and for the "GNT", it can bring up a greek/english interlinear [but not for the Tanach hebrew verses unfortunately], all on one page. I love it. For example:

http://www.olivetree.com/cgi-bin/EnglishBible.htm

(NKJV) Matthew 1:1 The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the Son of David, the Son of Abraham:

(Rotherham) Matthew 1:1 The Lineage Roll of Jesus Christ,--Son of David, Son of Abraham.

(Young) Matthew 1:1 A roll of the birth of Jesus Christ, son of David, son of Abraham.

(Greek/English Interlinear (tr) NT) Matthew 1:1 | bibloV <976> {BOOK} genesewV <1078> {OF [THE] GENERATION} ihsou <2424> {OF JESUS} cristou <5547> {CHRIST,} uiou <5207> {SON} dauid <1138> {OF DAVID,} uiou <5207> {SON} abraam <11> {OF ABRAHAM.} Matthew 1:1 ( KJV w/ Strongs Definitions )

The book
New Testament Greek Definition:
976 biblos {bib'-los}
primitive root; TDNT - 1:615,106; n n
AV - book 13; 13
1) a written book, a roll, a scroll of the generation
New Testament Greek Definition:
1078 genesis {ghen'-es-is}
from the same as 1074; TDNT - 1:682,117; n f
AV - generation 1, natural 1, nature 1; 3
1) source, origin
1a) a book of one's lineage, i.e. in which his ancestry or
progeny are enumerated
2) used of birth, nativity
3) of that which follows origin, viz. existence, life
3a) the wheel of life (Jas 3:6), other explain it, the wheel of
human origin which as soon as men are born begins to run, i.e.
its course of life of Jesus
New Testament Greek Definition:
2424 Iesous {ee-ay-sooce'}
of Hebrew origin 03091; TDNT - 3:284,360; n pr m
AV - Jesus 972, Jesus (Joshua) 2, Jesus (Justus) 1; 975
Jesus = "Jehovah is salvation"
1) Jesus, the Son of God, the Saviour of mankind, God incarnate
2) Jesus Barabbas was the captive robber whom the Jews begged Pilate
to release instead of Christ
3) Joshua was the famous captain of the Israelites, Moses' successor
(Ac. 7:45, Heb. 4:8)
4) Jesus, son of Eliezer, one of the ancestors of Christ (Lu. 3:29)
5) Jesus, surnamed Justus, a Jewish Christian, an associate with
Paul in the preaching of the gospel (Col. 4:11) Christ
New Testament Greek Definition:
5547 Christos {khris-tos'} .................................................. .......

[chokmah]

Originally Posted by bananabrain

the problem with artscroll is mostly that it's one-dimensional. the commentaries are anthologised and the translations are somewhat slanted, basically to give the most right-wing, traditionalist view, while designed to appeal to "entry-level" understanding. the problem is not that their answers are "wrong" - it's that they're "answers". a good commentary is about getting you to think, not spoon-feeding you a lazy, self-satisfied, smug and above-all pre-filtered-and-digested "Torah view" point of view. i can see the results of this in the community and frankly it's all a bit too lubavitch considering they're supposed to be a minority PoV. not that there's anything wrong with chabad as long as you know what you're dealing with and do so on your own terms.

I've been told very similar things regarding the Commentary from many other people. One other point that is brought up is the translation of Song of Solomon, but I haven't gotten that far yet.

Originally Posted by B-brain

i personally prefer to read the original and then kind of anthologise my own translations based upon the JPS, the "jerusalem bible", kaplan's "living Torah" and "living Nakh" and, on the web, http://unbound.biola.edu, which though a fundie protestant site has at least the advantage of multiple versions and wearing its prejudices on its sleeve.

b'shalom

bananabrain

Maybe one of these days I'll read Hebrew, and be able to do as you are. Until then, thanks for the link.

[bananabrain]

the best example i can show you is to go and look in almost any translation of "shir ha-shirim" (the "song of songs"/"song of solomon"/"canticles") at verse 5, chapter 4. then go and look in your artscroll translation and tell me what the difference is. that's artscroll in a nutshell.

b'shalom

bananabrain

[pohaikawahine]

Originally Posted by bananabrain

the best example i can show you is to go and look in almost any translation of "shir ha-shirim" (the "song of songs"/"song of solomon"/"canticles") at verse 5, chapter 4. then go and look in your artscroll translation and tell me what the difference is. that's artscroll in a nutshell.

b'shalom

bananabrain

will someone please print out the translation of this verse from artscroll .... I would like to compare it with the translation from copies that I have .... or I can get it off the web, a reference please would be helpful .... I love "shir ha-shirim", it was my introduction to Judiasm .... me ke aloha pumehana, pohaikawahine

[bananabrain]

oh, very well...

"moses & aaron, your two sustainers, are like two fawns, twins of the gazelle, who graze their sheep in roselike bounty."

nothing in there about tits, you'll note. but then again, G!D (or should i say artscroll) forbid anyone should encounter the Text for themselves - gasp - they might actually start to *think*!!!!!

b'shalom

bananabrain

[pohaikawahine]

sorry I asked .... I'll never be able to look at myself in the mirror and not think of moses and aaron .... but seriously bb thank you for providing the artscroll translation .... it seems to me that part of the power of the song of songs is its ability to create desire and passion which one of the beautiful ways of cleaving to G!d .... but even without considering the inner meaning, the whole of verse 4 relates to the description of the beautiful woman .... with the first line of each section in verse 4 (from one of my several translations) 4:1 "how beautiful you are my love...your hair like a flock of goats ....4:2 you teeth white ewes .... 4:3 a crimson ribbon your lips .... 4:4 your neck is a tower of david ....4:5 your breasts are two fawns .... 4:6 before day breaths, before the shadows of night are gone, I will hurry to the mountain of myrrh, the hill of frankincense .... 4:7 you are beautiful my love, my perfect one " ....


to me, and I know my view does not always resonate with others at times .... the whole concept of the sacrifice of animals must also be seen in the symbols and the language .... like the song of songs, it is about the love of a woman only one one level, its deeper meaning is much more profound .... the sacrifice of animals is about a physical sacrifice only on the level of the story, its inner meaning is much more profound and not about an actual sacrifice of an animal at all .... but these are just my thoughts to share in the dialogue .... 8:2 "I would bring you to the house of my mother and she would teach me. I would give you spiced wine to drink, my pomegranate wine."

aloha nui, poh

p.s. my grandson told me a few months ago .... "grandma, you are like heaven, your eyes are like pixie dust, your hug feels like a thousand suns hugging me, your mouth is like pixie's glow, when I rub your back, I feel like I'm rubbing a genie's lamp, when you laugh it feels like your making a real genie come to life" .... he's only 9 years old but has the heart of an old poet .... does his words fill me with great passion, of course ....

[pohaikawahine]

Originally Posted by dauer

I think you have been misinformed, but I don't have time right now to answer your question. Basically, all of the quotes from Tanach that you use to support there is no need for qorbanot, we use the same ones. And there is nothing to connect coming of mashiach with end of sacrifices, in fact, there are textual quotes that say qorbanot (sacrifices) will be reinstated when the mashiach comes.

In the absence of a Temple, we do not offer qorbanot, which are not only for expiation of sin. In fact, qorbanot means to come near or draw close and it was once the equivalent of formalized prayer.

Dauer

hmmmmm.... if a 'qorbanot' (which I assume means sacrafice???) is related to the arrival of mashiach, and if the arrival of mashiach is related to the regathering .... then the concept of 'qorbanot' could be interpreted to either end upon the arrival or begin again upon the arrival .... both would be correct .... if a 'qorbanot' symbolically represents in the physical what takes place in the spiritual realm, we would have to come out of exodus, out of the wilderness, to return to the temple .... when this happens we reinact the 'qorbanot' to be able to reach the summit and if this equates to the return of mashiach the "qorbanot's' would end .... if on the other hand the return of mashiach is dependend on the 'qorbanot' (symbolically) then the 'qorbanot' would be reinacted in order for the mashiach to return and would begin again .... it's all a matter of wording and timing ....

if the rebuilding of the temple takes place in a spiritual realm then we would not offer 'qorbanot' until we are ready to rebuild and return and regather ....

just some thoughts to share .... bandit and I are busy working on the tabernacle in the wilderness thread in the interfaith parsha project and I think that we will certainly have to include some dialogue on temple sacrafice because it is key to the inner meanings .... the book by mary douglas leviticus as literature' (which was recommended by bb) takes us into details of the sacrafice of animals that helps to unveil the inner meaning of this act .... "seen in an anthropological perspective Leviticus has a mystical structure which plots the book into three parts corrresponding to the three parts of the desert tabernacle, which in turn corresponds to the parts of Mount Sinai....this completely new reading transforms the interpretation of the purity laws" .... sacrafice of animals can never be looked at the same again once we understand the inner meanings .... aloha nui, pohaikawahine