Why don't Christians worship as Jews do?

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by chokmah

Is this thread only for Christians to answer or are you looking for other groups' insights?

hey chokmah, are you an othodox Jew?

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Bandit

hey chokmah, are you an othodox Jew?

Bandit...be nice to the guests.


v/r

Q

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Bandit...be nice to the guests.


v/r

Q

i am being nice . i have been wanting an orthodox jew to join ever since i came here & newage did not stay very long .

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by truthseeker

Why is it that Christians don't worship as Jews do?

I think that in Jesus' message he was trying to bring God's chosen back unto him. He said that he did not come to destroy the law, but to fulfill it. So why do Christians feel like we don't have to worship on the Sabbath day? And why do we use the Old Testament when we need to make reference to the 'words in red' but we feel like we don't really have to follow anything but the ten commandments, when Jesus himself was a Jew?

hey Truthseeker

here is my little take on this.

some churches & christian organizations have church on both days. that does not mean that the entire organization/religion that particular church belongs to does it on saturday or saturday only.

i suppose if the first business day was sunday & everyone started work on sunday, then i would view saturday as the 7th day. i have always viewed sunday as the last day of the 'work week' & saturday as the 6th day (regardless of the calendar or tradition) & due to business days or for whatever reason, i just do.

so i guess my question would be (outside of tradition) if we are supposed to work 6 days & rest on the 7th, then would not the first work day be sunday instead of monday?
just a question of mine, since i did not create, edit or change the calendar or the work week. that is just what i was born into

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Bandit

hey Truthseeker

here is my little take on this.

some churches & christian organizations have church on both days. that does not mean that the entire organization/religion that particular church belongs to does it on saturday or saturday only.

i suppose if the first business day was sunday & everyone started work on sunday, then i would view saturday as the 7th day. i have always viewed sunday as the last day of the 'work week' & saturday as the 6th day (regardless of the calendar or tradition) & due to business days or for whatever reason, i just do.

so i guess my question would be (outside of tradition) if we are supposed to work 6 days & rest on the 7th, then would not the first work day be sunday instead of monday?
just a question of mine, since i did not create, edit or change the calendar or the work week. that is just what i was born into

We weren't supposed to have to work at all. But man's life is like a pendulum. So God said "one day will be a day of rest for man". And He modeled it after His work week.

The first day of the week is Sunday. But we (who work 5 days instead of 6, officially, take two days off and call it the weekend.

[truthseeker]

Originally Posted by Bandit

hey Truthseeker

here is my little take on this.

some churches & christian organizations have church on both days. that does not mean that the entire organization/religion that particular church belongs to does it on saturday or saturday only.

i suppose if the first business day was sunday & everyone started work on sunday, then i would view saturday as the 7th day. i have always viewed sunday as the last day of the 'work week' & saturday as the 6th day (regardless of the calendar or tradition) & due to business days or for whatever reason, i just do.

so i guess my question would be (outside of tradition) if we are supposed to work 6 days & rest on the 7th, then would not the first work day be sunday instead of monday?
just a question of mine, since i did not create, edit or change the calendar or the work week. that is just what i was born into

I understand what you mean, Bandit. That is the way I thought about it as well until I came into a humble understanding of what the Sabbath is. On the calendar, Sunday is still the first day of the week - dedicated to the worship of the Sun (historically, but some don't like the sound of that.). If you look at it correctly and then plainly, Saturday is the day of rest. Then Sunday is your day of worship.

[truthseeker]

Originally Posted by chokmah

The closest thing that I can see being a blatant example of what you state is Replacement Theology. There are those who believe that the Church replaces the Jews as "Israel".

Indeed, the Church does believe that it has replaced the Jews as Israel and make the necessary adjustments for its claim...

The real felonious consideration of that belief system is that the people want all the blessings that are to come to Israel, but never own up to the punishments. The thinking behind that is that the Jews have been punished, and now some new body gets all the blessings. Quite a trade, huh?

Anyways...

But I note, looking at your avatar, are you not a Christian yourself?

Strangely enough, I claim Christianity - but the Church won't have me. I don't think that I am against the Church - but I'm not a numbskull either.

[truthseeker]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Being sacked is not the same as Rome falling. Rome as a power of any kind did not fall for good, until roughly 560 AD. Jesus (according to scholars) was born 7 BC (this we know from prophecy, and historical dates of say, King David's beginning rule "1007 BC" and the prophecy that Christ would come 1000 years later. Christ's announcment (that is to say His baptism and beginning of His publicly known work) was in 29 AD (this we know for fact from historical dates in the Bible pertaining to certain secular leaders' rule at the time of His announcement). That would mean Jesus began his public work at age 36 (vise 30 as we are taught in Sunday school), and that He was crucified at age 39, and not 33. (this I think is very very important, since a man then as now is not a man settled and with anchors accepted by society until the age approaching 40).

This actually makes sense since a man was not considered a man until age 30, and only a whelp of a man at that. Who would listen to a man of youth?

Now, If this is all accurate stuff, then Christ died in the year 32 AD. Forty years later the city of Jeruselem was raized...not bad. (the church got something nearly right). 390 years later (422 AD), Rome got its butt kicked. But that wasn't the end of Rome. That did not come until 100 years later at the hands of Germanic warriors (who were cold, tired and simply wanted a piece of the action) who found out that "Rome" wasn't what they'd dreamed and heard about. So they took matters into their own hands.

Please note: Rome was dying at the time of Christ's life. Since they could not enforce the "law" with soldiers, they started writing the "law" in Golden ink, thinking that would whoo the citizens...how pathetic. Pilate couldn't make a decision on his own to save his own butt, if you think about it. The Jews made the decisions for him, and he acquiessed. (Who was in control?)

Carthage, you should remember, was not Rome, but a conquered city, under Roman rule. It wasn't even in Europe.

But by 520 AD Rome was a shell of its former self. A house of cards to be blown over by the wind. And that is what happened.

The view is always interesting in the Christian light - and I mean that sincerely.
If one is smart, in self-preservation there are those who never forget. Rome has not fallen - it just exists under another name.

[InChristAlways]

Originally Posted by truthseeker Why is it that Christians don't worship as Jews do?

I think that in Jesus' message he was trying to bring God's chosen back unto him. He said that he did not come to destroy the law, but to fulfill it. So why do Christians feel like we don't have to worship on the Sabbath day? And why do we use the Old Testament when we need to make reference to the 'words in red' but we feel like we don't really have to follow anything but the ten commandments, when Jesus himself was a Jew?

Originally Posted by chokmah
The closest thing that I can see being a blatant example of what you state is Replacement Theology. There are those who believe that the Church replaces the Jews as "Israel".
The real felonious consideration of that belief system is that the people want all the blessings that are to come to Israel, but never own up to the punishments. The thinking behind that is that the Jews have been punished, and now some new body gets all the blessings. Quite a trade, huh?

Indeed, the Church does believe that it has replaced the Jews as Israel and make the necessary adjustments for its claim...Strangely enough, I claim Christianity - but the Church won't have me. I don't think that I am against the Church - but I'm not a numbskull either.

How is it that some believe the "church" has replaced the jews and Israel? If I remember the OT correctly, those who are of the Faith of Abraham and his Seed are also the true "church", the difference being we worship in Love, Spirit and Truth and not the OC Law and Ordinances that came after Abraham through Jacob/Israel.

What exactly is "Replacement Theology" as I have heard that mentioned a number of times, but am not fully familiar with it. Is there a topic on it somewhere? Thanks.
Steve

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by InChristAlways

How is it that some believe the "church" has replaced the jews and Israel? If I remember the OT correctly, those who are of the Faith of Abraham and his Seed are also the true "church", the difference being we worship in Love, Spirit and Truth and not the OC Law and Ordinances that came after Abraham through Jacob/Israel.

What exactly is "Replacement Theology" as I have heard that mentioned a number of times, but am not fully familiar with it. Is there a topic on it somewhere? Thanks.
Steve

i have never seen anyone talk about that here before & i am not sure who started it. that always seemed like another 'off the top of my hat' dogma. i dont see where the church replaced israel & i am not real crazy about people who say that. when ever i have seen that kind of theology, it leads to bigotry.

[truthseeker]

Originally Posted by InChristAlways

How is it that some believe the "church" has replaced the jews and Israel? If I remember the OT correctly, those who are of the Faith of Abraham and his Seed are also the true "church", the difference being we worship in Love, Spirit and Truth and not the OC Law and Ordinances that came after Abraham through Jacob/Israel.

Just the nature of the wording 'Old Testament' and 'New Testament' and your comment after the posed question is an accurate example of Replacement Theology.

What exactly is "Replacement Theology" as I have heard that mentioned a number of times, but am not fully familiar with it. Is there a topic on it somewhere? Thanks.
Steve

You and Chokmah explained Replacement Theology quite well, I think. It can be a hard pill to swallow though for those who believe in Manifest Destiny and that the Christian Bible is the inerrant word of God.

[truthseeker]

Originally Posted by Bandit

i have never seen anyone talk about that here before & i am not sure who started it. that always seemed like another 'off the top of my hat' dogma. i dont see where the church replaced israel & i am not real crazy about people who say that. when ever i have see that kind of theology, it leads to bigotry.

I probably started it. Sorry.

No real Christian sees where the church replaced Israel because the church didn't replace Israel. But the sublimal message is there.

[InChristAlways]

Originally Posted by chokmah
The closest thing that I can see being a blatant example of what you state is Replacement Theology. There are those who believe that the Church replaces the Jews as "Israel".
The real felonious consideration of that belief system is that the people want all the blessings that are to come to Israel, but never own up to the punishments. The thinking behind that is that the Jews have been punished, and now some new body gets all the blessings. Quite a trade, huh?

Originally Posted by InChristAlways

How is it that some believe the "church" has replaced the jews and Israel? If I remember the OT correctly, those who are of the Faith of Abraham and his Seed are also the true "church", the difference being we worship in Love, Spirit and Truth and not the OC Law and Ordinances that came after Abraham through Jacob/Israel.

Just the nature of the wording 'Old Testament' and 'New Testament' and your comment after the posed question is an accurate example of Replacement Theology.
No real Christian sees where the church replaced Israel because the church didn't replace Israel. But the sublimal message is there.

Originally Posted by Bandit
i have never seen anyone talk about that here before, that always seemed like another 'off the top of my hat' dogma. i dont see where the church replaced israel & i am not real crazy about people who say that. when ever i have see that kind of theology, it leads to bigotry.

Bigotry? I don't understand that, as God is God of all, regardless of "religion", correct?

So it is a matter of one being of the Faith of Abraham and his Seed, and those of the faith of the Covenant of Mt Sinai through Jacob/Israel and Moses, the jews.

That doesn't sound like "Replacement Theology", just 2 "churches" side by side, who share the belief of One God, the Creator.

Anyway, perhaps someone can start a topic on it unless it would be too "controversial".?.
Steve

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by InChristAlways

Bigotry? I don't understand that, as God is God of all, regardless of "religion", correct?

So it is a matter of one being of the Faith of Abraham and his Seed, and those of the faith of the Covenant of Mt Sinai through Jacob/Israel and Moses, the jews.

That doesn't sound like "Replacement Theology", just 2 "churches" side by side, who share the belief of One God, the Creator.

Anyway, perhaps someone can start a topic on it unless it would be too "controversial".?.
Steve

oh yes it does turn into bigotry because some of them say the Jews go to hell & have been replaced by Christians...the same way each of these Christian denominations tell each other they are going to hell unless you join them.
i think Origen or Augustine started all that. (not sure)
i dont seperate God into religion. there is one God & as far as i am concerned He is the same God of the jew & the christian, the muslim the american indians....

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by truthseeker

I probably started it. Sorry.

No real Christian sees where the church replaced Israel because the church didn't replace Israel. But the sublimal message is there.

good to see you Truthseeker
i agree with that too. no one is going to replace israel.

i always thought you were talking about the sunday & saturday thing.