Why do you think I am oppressed?

[Muslimwoman]

Niranjan

I am going to put this as politely as possible. I am not going to answer your post because I started this thread to give curious people the opportunity to ask about life as a female Muslim convert, what it is like to wear hijab, life as a westerner living in a Muslim country, etc. We are already discussing Islamic terrorism and abuses on other threads, so please have the decency not to follow me onto every thread and post the same issues or I will simply stop posting on this forum.

Salaam

[niranjan]

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

Niranjan

I am going to put this as politely as possible. I am not going to answer your post

And did I say that you have to answer my post ? You have not answered it in the other thread as well.

Anyway my post was for Nick the Pilot, not you. Just sharing information.

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

because I started this thread to give curious people the opportunity to ask about life as a female Muslim convert, what it is like to wear hijab, life as a westerner living in a Muslim country, etc.

I think what I have stated, which are veritable facts, are important for this thread.

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

We are already discussing Islamic terrorism and abuses on other threads, so please have the decency not to follow me onto every thread and post the same issues or I will simply stop posting on this forum..

I don't think I have followed anyone anywhere. I am not a stalker or something. I just found this thread and passed my comments on it. What is wrong with that ?

Don't you care for the little muslim girls who have to marry these guys? If you don't , I do anyway . Sorry about that.

[niranjan]

And one more thing . I have clearly read in a novel or book when I was a kid, about muslim girls in Egypt who have to marry 50 year old guys. Is that true ?

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by niranjan

And one more thing . I have clearly read in a novel or book when I was a kid, about muslim girls in Egypt who have to marry 50 year old guys. Is that true ?

Not that I am aware of but probably has happened (as it has in past times in all cultures).

[niranjan]

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

Not that I am aware of but probably has happened (as it has in past times in all cultures).

Child marriage was there among hindus in the past. But even then, little girls married little boys of their age, not senile men.

Anyway we have got rid of child marriage as well . Hindu laws and the Indian constitution bans it , and it is a criminal offence. It is not there now, unlike what is happening in Islamic society.

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by niranjan

Child marriage was there among hindus in the past. But even then, little girls married little boys of their age, not senile men.

Anyway we have got rid of child marriage as well . Hindu laws and the Indian constitution bans it , and it is a criminal offence. It is not there now, unlike what is happening in Islamic society.

as salaam aleykum Niranjan

I am happy that your country has moved on and created a better environment for it's people. Let us pray that others will see the wisdom of this and follow. Times are changing for everyone, unfortunately just more slowly for some than others. Some Islamic scholars outside your country worked very hard with your people to remove the Hudood laws that oppressed so many people. There will always be some, in any culture, that try to hang on to the old customs and practices but over time the majority tend to win out, let us hope this continues to happen.

Salaam

[niranjan]

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

. Some Islamic scholars outside your country worked very hard with your people to remove the Hudood laws that oppressed so many people. There will always be some, in any culture, that try to hang on to the old customs and practices but over time the majority tend to win out, let us hope this continues to happen.

Salaam

Not so with the Indian muslim community and majority of islamic communities all over the world ( except in the west) who practice child marriage and polygamy.

All the religious communities in India except the islamic community is following the common civil code , which is very humane and generous to women.

Because of the rants of Islamic fundamentalists , they are excluded from this.
And hence as a result muslim women are heavily persecuted.

Check out a typical case.....

Shah Bano case - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Sunny C.]

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

...I started this thread to give curious people the opportunity to ask about life as a female Muslim convert, what it is like to wear hijab, life as a westerner living in a Muslim country, etc.

Salaam

What sorts of oppression have you noticed in Egypt which seem particular to Muslim countries? How does that contrast, in your experience, with oppression in Christian countries? What are the similarities which transcend religious and ethnic differences in culture? What comprises feminism in Islamic society, or is there such a thing?

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by Sunny C.

What sorts of oppression have you noticed in Egypt which seem particular to Muslim countries? How does that contrast, in your experience, with oppression in Christian countries? What are the similarities which transcend religious and ethnic differences in culture? What comprises feminism in Islamic society, or is there such a thing?

Hi Sunny

That would take pages and pages to answer. I shall jot a couple of things down and you can let me know what you want to discuss further.

Lack of education is a big problem, not general education but religious. Everyone is forceably taught the Quran from a very young age but if you can imagine it is like teaching children to recite the Bible without actually teaching them anything about it or discussing with them the meanings. They just learn it parrot fashion, so it just goes in without any meaning to it. This allows for a lot of ignorance and abuses, the times I have been told by women, about a given practice, "it is in the Quran" and they are clearly astonished when I show them it is not. So the religion gets very mixed up with tradition and cultural practices.

An example of oppression I have watching for a year or so now is that of a 16 year old girl who was married off by her father for money. Her new husband was going abroad to work, so the boys parents took the girl, against her will, to have IVF (to ensure she was pregnant before their son went away). She is just a slip of a girl and was pregnant with 5 babies, 2 of which died in childbirth and 3 beautiful baby girls were born but all very sick. The parents in law look after the babies as the girl (3 months later) is still too weak to get out of bed.

Another, a young girl stood in the street talking to her fiance without a family member present. Someone told her brothers and they beat her so badly she spent the night in hospital.

Another simple one is that if we employ a salesman in our business we pay him 6 times what we would pay a woman for the same work. I tried once to pay a woman the same and she left her job, thinking I was a nutcase.

Oppression is not the norm, people are becoming more educated (even in the backwater where I live) but instances still happen due to old customs. On the whole I have found the Egyptians to be rather liberated, the status of women is surprisingly high and I think you have to live there to understand that some things the west see's as oppression is actually the men caring for the women.

When I first went there I was told I was not allowed to leave the house by myself after midnight. of course I rebelled (no-one told me when I could go out and could not). Once my husband was away for 3 days working, so I walked from my apartment to my parents in law (about a 5 minute walk) at 1am. When my husband came back and heard about this he had a rant and then burst into tears, he was so worried that I had been in the street alone so late. It isn't that he wants to oppress me, he just wants me to be safe. Now if I want to go out so late (usually because it's too hot to sleep) and my husband is away I just ring my father in law and he comes to get me. Actually it makes me feel very special.

Life is different everywhere I have lived, the far east had a great deal of oppression of women and Cyprus under the Greek Orthodox church was sort of middle ground between UK and Middle East.

Differences between living here and in the west, the biggest is that I feel much safer here, I am not in fear of being attacked, burgled or bothered by drunks (I love that bit). Family is paramount here, the west is so selfish now but here if you come into some money you share it around your family, if someone is sick you have to wait in the queue to look after them and if it's your birthday expect at least 40 people for dinner (of course you have to cook so not much of a birthday).

One thing I noticed is that in the west we are afraid to help people in the street now, we may get sued or dragged into something. Before I could speak any Arabic I used to panic about what I could do if I had a problem in the street, my family here couldn't understand they just laughed at me. I soon found out why, if you merely trip over in the street 30 people drop everything, stop traffic and come to help you up.

There certainly is such a thing as feminism in Islam, although it is a very modern invention. Women, as I said before are becoming more educated, they are asking why they are forced to do things not stated in the Quran. We have womens rights groups all over the world and even in my little town. Things like television and the internet have opened up a whole new world to women, not that they want to throw off their clothes and go western but it is making them question some of the more oppressive traditions.

One of the biggest jokes we have among the women here is western clothing (really they fall off their chairs laughing at the way women in the west dress), as we laugh when a woman there goes swimming in a black bedsheet. I say this to demonstrate that what we see as oppression of women may not be what they see as oppression. At the moment the womens rights group in my town is working to get women allowed into the mosques in our town to pray because that is high on their list of priorities - yet in the west we would put that at the bottom of a long list. People in the west must get rid of their ideas of what is oppression of Middle Eastern women and ask them what they feel oppresses them - I bet the answers would surprise you.

Salaam

[Sunny C.]

Wow, what an excellent, interesting post! Thank you so much! Thanks for the effort.

Sunny

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by Sunny C.

Wow, what an excellent, interesting post! Thank you so much! Thanks for the effort.

Sunny

You're welcome anytime.

Salaam

[Sunny C.]

Something I find amusing is that here in the States it seems sometimes that the payoff for feminism is that women get to be even more blatantly objectified. But it's really not feminism. Real feminism is as dead as Betty Friedan, who I'm convinced will forever spin in her grave. The politics of pretty, that's what we've got.

Chris

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by Sunny C.

Something I find amusing is that here in the States it seems sometimes that the payoff for feminism is that women get to be even more blatantly objectified. But it's really not feminism. Real feminism is as dead as Betty Friedan, who I'm convinced will forever spin in her grave. The politics of pretty, that's what we've got.

Chris

I agree completely. Women's liberation was born from frustration and oppression, once their objectives were met the movement ceased.

Womens lib went too far and has now created a number of problems for women in the west and I speak from experience. Can you believe some Muslim people in the west (particularly USA I notice) are now using the argument that polygamy is a good thing because some women would rather concentrate on their career, so a second wife can look after her husband and children while she rakes in the bucks. Some women may be happy with that but I just can't get my head around it - so why get married and have children? I am not advocating women should be bare foot and pregnant but I believe there is a line women have now crossed and it is going to be very hard to get back over.

Salaam

[niranjan]

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

Can you believe some Muslim people in the west (particularly USA I notice) are now using the argument that polygamy is a good thing because some women would rather concentrate on their career, so a second wife can look after her husband and children while she rakes in the bucks

That is true. In India, the famous muslim singer Lucky Ali, who is married and has sibling children , married again.

Upon asked why he did it, he said that his wife has to take care of his children, and could not go with him when he has to travel abroad which leaves him unsatisfied. Hence for this reason,he decided to take a second wife .

Lucky Ali - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Lucky Ali - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I wonder whether Lucky's first wife being unsatisfied herself, will have any problems in taking an another husband using Lucky's reasoning herself.

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by niranjan

That is true. In India, the famous muslim singer Lucky Ali, who is married and has sibling children , married again.

I wonder whether Lucky's first wife being unsatisfied herself, will have any problems in taking an another husband using Lucky's reasoning herself.

I wouldn't be allowed to post the names I would like to call people like this. The view of taking a second wife simply for reasons of lust belong to the more fundamental Muslims. Yet this man states he has tried drugs (forbidden in Islam) and he earns his living through music (the fundamentalists say music if forbidden). Perhaps I would view it differently if he was pious man but this is just a perfect example of wanting your cake and eating it. He wants the rights of a fundamentalist if it gains him something and then turns around and completely flouts the Quran. So where are all the extremist scholars and jurists when a man commits such sins? If it was a women we can all guess what would happen.

The view of these awful people Niranjan is that men are 'unable' to control their lust and women are "instructed by Allah to be patient". They always neglect to mention that men are also instructed to lower their gaze and live a life of modesty. Really if anyone wants to see dual standards in action just look at the fundamentalist side of Islam.

That said, alhamdolillah, they are a small percentage of Muslims.