Who Understands why Israel was created?

[juantoo3]

I'm speachless.

[bananabrain]

thank you tao, it is a relief to find that people can actually see through the agenda of the israel-bashing industry, especially given that this industry spends so much of its time supporting this particular point by attempting to make out that jews have no actual link with the area. never mind that palestinian arabic is linguistically heavily influenced by biblical hebrew and aramaic and that this can be demonstrably shown to date back well before modern zionism. i have no problem with legitimate criticism, but this deliberate attempt to deprive us of our spiritual home cannot be borne.

b'shalom

bananabrain

[Alex P]

Originally Posted by farhan

I forgot Argentina

You speaking of the falklands?? Please... Enlighten me on what you know of the Falklands if so......

[farhan]

..

[LenoBee]

Originally Posted by bananabrain

omprem,

i am all for sensible discussion but this particular issue has been discussed ad nauseam by far more reasonable people than yourself. your point of view adds nothing to this debate and you are not helping anyone, least of all the palestinians. all you are doing is repeating a list of tendentious, bigoted accusations and i'm not interested in discussing this with anyone so obviously close-minded.

b'shalom

bananabrain

If you don’t wish to discuss it then why are you discussing it?
If his view is so wrong then why don’t you give your own wrong view instead of only criticizing his? If his bias solution is so wrong then why not you, display your own bias and your own wrong solution? Or do you try to silence those who strongly disagree with you by attacking their character. Everyone has a bias. If you can reveal your own prejudice in a very not so charming manner then why can’t others.
The bigotry card is not an argument. It is a debate tactic.
I do agree it is ad nauseum at best.

[LenoBee]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

Strange - I thought it was the UN acting under direction from the US to set up a dedicated country for the Jews where they would be safe to live without fear of persecution by their resident government?

I am quite certain he is not in reference to that specific year alone. The Israel/Jewish Palestine conflict, invasion and slaughter of Palestine has been going for many decades prior. You can thank the Roman Empire. Are you being ignorant or displaying your own bias? Giving statements hidden by a question mark does not change what you are really saying (?). Like that.

[omprem]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

There are murderers on both sides. Neither they nor their victims pay the full price. It is those left behind weeping that are made to pay.


tao

Nope. There were and are the invading, rapacious Jews who think nothing of dispossessing or killing Palestinians in order to get their lands and possessions and then there are the Palestinians practicing self-defense who resist the Jewish invasion and atrocities.

If someone decided they wanted your home and neighbourhood and began forcibly ejecting and killing people and your home and family was next on the list, I suppose that you would say it was OK for the invaders to do so.

[Dogbrain]

Originally Posted by omprem

Nope. There were and are the invading, rapacious Jews who think nothing of dispossessing or killing Palestinians in order to get their lands and possessions and then there are the Palestinians practicing self-defense who resist the Jewish invasion and atrocities.

Written like a true Islamicist propagandist. Even if there is some vestige of reasonability within you, your specific choice of terms relegates to to the ranks of extremists and terrorists.

[Dogbrain]

Originally Posted by LenoBee

I am quite certain he is not in reference to that specific year alone. The Israel/Jewish Palestine conflict, invasion and slaughter of Palestine has been going for many decades prior. You can thank the Roman Empire. Are you being ignorant or displaying your own bias?

That hunk of land has been contested territory since long before Rome got involved. Hyksos, Egyptians, Assyrians, Persians, Hellenists, and who knows who else have tried setting up shop there, too. Even the Philistines probably were a foreign incursion, with strong connections to Mycenean culture.

[omprem]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

Strange - I thought it was the UN acting under direction from the US to set up a dedicated country for the Jews where they would be safe to live without fear of persecution by their resident government?

You are seriously misinformed about the Zionist occupation of Palestine. The first group of Zionists, known as Chibbat or Chovenei-Zion (Lovers of Zion) landed at Jaffa on July 7, 1882. The publication of Theodor Herzl's The State of the Jews in 1896 started the process of political Zionism. In 1897 the first Zionist Congress met at Basel, Switzerland to discuss establishment of a Jewish state and the World Zionist. In 1895 the population of Palestine was about 453,000 Palestinians and 47,000 Jews. These figures did not stop Dr. Chaim Weizmann, leader of the Zionist movement, from stirring up Zionist support in 1917 by spreading the slogan “A land without people for a people without a land.” That alone should give you a sense of the underhandedness of Zionists.


In 1914, Britain promised the independence of Arab lands, including Palestine, under Ottoman rule in return for Arab support against Turkey. However, in 1916, Britain, France, Russia signed the Sykes-Picot Agreement dividing up Arab lands between them. Then in 1917, Britain issued the Balfour Declaration promising the Jews a homeland in Palestine in return for Jewish support of Britain against Turkey. So, now we have the British promising the same land to which they had no right to both Arabs and Jews for help against the Ottoman Turks. The British tried to meet both of these obligations by having the Balfour Declaration state that it was "clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine."

However as we all know there was no protection of civil and religious rights or even the lives of Palestinians only a relentless, creeping invasion by the Zionists of Palestine.

[Eclectic Mystic]

Originally Posted by bananabrain

omprem,

I am all for sensible discussion but this particular issue has been discussed ad nauseam by far more reasonable people than yourself.

With all due respect, if the issue has been so thoroughly discussed, then why hasn't there been a definitively dignified reckoning or resolution? Please don't don't refer to arguments others have made or to crimes others have commited; I am an individual and speak for myself. I am quite reasonable. If the situation was indeed dignified it would be clearer to me.

[omprem]

Originally Posted by bananabrain

thank you tao, it is a relief to find that people can actually see through the agenda of the israel-bashing industry, especially given that this industry spends so much of its time supporting this particular point by attempting to make out that jews have no actual link with the area. never mind that palestinian arabic is linguistically heavily influenced by biblical hebrew and aramaic and that this can be demonstrably shown to date back well before modern zionism. i have no problem with legitimate criticism, but this deliberate attempt to deprive us of our spiritual home cannot be borne.

b'shalom

bananabrain

The Jews have no 'link' to Palestine. They only have greed and a complete disregard for the lives of those who have what the Zionists want.

The only historical 'link' that Jews have to Palestine is the period from 1020-745 B.C. But in the 2000 years before that Egyptians, Amorites, Hyksos, Apirua and Shasu peoples lived on the land. After the 1020-745 B.C. period and for the next 2600 years, Assyrians, Egyptians again, Babylonians, Persians, Greeks, Hasmonaeans, Romans, Byzantines, Umayyads, Abbasids, Tulinids, Ikhshadids, Fatimids, Seljuks, the Crusaders, Ayyubids, Mamluks, Ottomans held that territory.

It is not reasonable that Jews who inhabited that area for less than 300 years out of 5000 years should have a prior claim on the land over the people who lived there when the Jews decided to invade it again. If so, then any other group who lived before also has at least an equal claim. According to your silliness, the Knights Templar should be living in what is now called Israel by some.

Your emotional claim is just a sham to cover up the rapaciousness and atrocities of the Zionists. Why not just admit that Jews wanted land and so they took it.

The first Zionist, Theodore Hertzl suggested in his 1897 publication, Der Judenstaat, that either Palestine or Argentina be considered as Jewish homelands. He didn't care what land was acquired or how only that it was acquired. It seems that he didn't have an emotional and spurious historical attachment to the Palestine land so your claim is bogus.

You show yourself to be an indoctrinated literal fundamentalist who doesn't understand his own scripture.

[omprem]

Originally Posted by Eclectic Mystic

With all due respect, if the issue has been so thoroughly discussed, then why hasn't there been a definitively dignified reckoning or resolution? Please don't don't refer to arguments others have made or to crimes others have commited; I am an individual and speak for myself. I am quite reasonable. If the situation was indeed dignified it would be clearer to me.

The issue has not been resolved because the Jews are loathe to admit their atrocities or make restitution or treat Palestinians fairly because to do so might leave them open to war crime trials, a degraded public opinion, and significantly out-of-pocket.

[omprem]

Originally Posted by farhan

Thats the point. Who gave them the right to tell some people,"This is your land nomore". Why didnt UN gave land in Siberia, why not in Newyork, Berlin, London? What kind of sick mercy is this?

Exactly. And before the UN and the League of Nations it was Britain that took it upon itself to make those unwarranted decisions.

[Dogbrain]

Originally Posted by omprem

The issue has not been resolved because the Jews are loathe to admit their atrocities

I note your choice of words. "The Jews" are to blame, not "The Israelis" nor even "The Zionists". It's "the Jews". Written like a true genocidist.