who is the word

[mee]

Who

Was "the Word"?

what about John 1:1, which says in the King James Version: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God"? John 1:14 tells us that "the Word became flesh and resided among us." Christendom claims that this "Word" (Greek, lo´gos) who came to earth as Jesus Christ was God Almighty himself. Yet, notice that even in the King James Version John 1:1 says "the Word was with God." Someone who is with another person is not the same as that other person. So even from this translation, two distinct personalities are shown. Also, no third person of any Trinity is mentioned at all.
As for the King James Version’s saying in the latter part of John 1:1 that the "Word was God," other translations say something different. Some are as follows:
1808: "and the word was a god." The New Testament, in an Improved Version, Upon the Basis of Archbishop Newcome’s New Translation: With a Corrected Text, London.
1864: "and a god was the Word." The Emphatic Diaglott, by Benjamin Wilson, New York and London.
1935: "and the Word was divine." The Bible—An American Translation, by J. M. P. Smith and E. J. Goodspeed, Chicago.
1935: "the Logos was divine." A New Translation of the Bible, by James Moffatt, New York.
1975: "and a god (or, of a divine kind) was the Word." Das Evangelium nach Johannes, by Siegfried Schulz, Göttingen, Germany.
1978: "and godlike sort was the Logos." Das Evangelium nach Johannes, by Johannes Schneider, Berlin.
1979: "and a god was the Logos." Das Evangelium nach Johannes, by Jurgen Becker, Würzburg, Germany.

Also, in 1950 the New World Translation of the Christian Greek Scriptures, published by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc., rendered the phrase, "and the Word was a god."

[wil]

namaste mee,

Nice bit of research...could you provide us with the whole John1:1 instead of just a piece for comparison?

It is truly hard to tell if there are dramatic differences if we don't have the whole line to compare...

Since you are also discussing John1:14 it would be great to have those as well...if you have all those bibles for reference.

In know you have issues with trinity thought as may have I, so I'd love to see the rest of these interpretations and your thoughts on Jesus as G-d as since you have shown in that the word became flesh and resided amongst us.. It appears you only have objection to the holy ghost part of the trinity...So if the word is G-d and Jesus is the word then are you indicating you accept G-d in Heaven and G-d in flesh as the same...again the portion you object to is the holy spirit?

[mee]

Originally Posted by wil

namaste mee,

Nice bit of research...could you provide us with the whole John1:1 instead of just a piece for comparison?

It is truly hard to tell if there are dramatic differences if we don't have the whole line to compare...

Since you are also discussing John1:14 it would be great to have those as well...if you have all those bibles for reference.

In know you have issues with trinity thought as may have I, so I'd love to see the rest of these interpretations and your thoughts on Jesus as G-d as since you have shown in that the word became flesh and resided amongst us.. It appears you only have objection to the holy ghost part of the trinity...So if the word is G-d and Jesus is the word then are you indicating you accept G-d in Heaven and G-d in flesh as the same...again the portion you object to is the holy spirit?

yes you are right i do have issues with the trinity doctrine , because from my study of the bible it seems quite clear to me that the word is not the Almighty as some have claimed .
The person who became known as Jesus Christ did not begin life here on earth. He himself spoke of his prehuman heavenly life. (Joh 3:13; 6:38, 62; 8:23, 42, 58) John 1:1, 2 gives the heavenly name of the one who became Jesus, saying: "In the beginning the Word [Gr., Lo´gos] was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god ["was divine," AT; Mo; or "of divine being," Böhmer; Stage (both German)]. This one was in the beginning with God." Since Jehovah is eternal and had no beginning (Ps 90:2; Re 15:3), the Word’s being with God from "the beginning" must here refer to the beginning of Jehovah’s creative works. This is confirmed by other texts identifying Jesus as "the firstborn of all creation," "the beginning of the creation by God." (Col 1:15; Re 1:1; 3:14) Thus the Scriptures identify the Word (Jesus in his prehuman existence) as God’s first creation, his firstborn Son.

[mee]

If the "Word" were indeed the "second person" of a triune God, should we not expect the Bible to say this in clear terms? If Jesus of the "New Testament" is Jehovah of the "Old Testament," as many claim, should there not at least be one Biblical reference definitely saying that Jesus is Jehovah? Yet there is not one. In fact, Jesus himself recognized his Father as his God, saying to Mary Magdalene: "I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God."—John 20:17.

[Silas]

There arent just one, but many. There are the theophanies in the OT and the messsanic fulfillements of Jesus in the NT, proving Him to be God. If that isnt enough, there is the fact that He has all of the attributes of God, is called "God" (big "G"), and receieved worship as God. If that isnt enough, Jesus Himself claimed to be God. As a matter of fact, the "I am" statements in the NT are proof He is God. Jesus is NOT the Father, nor is He the Spirit, but He is God - the 2nd person in the Godhead or Trinity. Because you dont believe in the right Jesus, you dont have the Father and therefore you dont know God. Jesus said, "Unless you believe that I am, you will die in your sins."

[BlaznFattyz]

Originally Posted by Silas

There arent just one, but many. There are the theophanies in the OT and the messsanic fulfillements of Jesus in the NT, proving Him to be God. If that isnt enough, there is the fact that He has all of the attributes of God, is called "God" (big "G"), and receieved worship as God. If that isnt enough, Jesus Himself claimed to be God. As a matter of fact, the "I am" statements in the NT are proof He is God. Jesus is NOT the Father, nor is He the Spirit, but He is God - the 2nd person in the Godhead or Trinity. Because you dont believe in the right Jesus, you dont have the Father and therefore you dont know God. Jesus said, "Unless you believe that I am, you will die in your sins."

sounds good to me.

[Dor]

We have been over this how many times now?

Me Ive told you start reading for yourself, not for The Watchtower.

[mee]

Originally Posted by Silas

Jesus Himself claimed to be God. As a matter of fact, the "I am" statements in the NT are proof He is God.

many such as myself have found greater understanding of the bible and what it teaches when more research is done , looking at the context in John 8;58 we can see just what Jesus meant . and reading a good translation clears things up for people......................Jesus said to them,Most truly i say to you ,Before Abraham came into existence,i have been .John 8;58 Jesus was making the point that he knew the Father Jehovah because he had a pre-human life in the heavens with his father Jehovah even before Abraham was born, notice how the Jews said to him in verse 57 You are not yet fifty years old and still you have seen abraham? Jesus was telling it just how it was, he was not lying. it was the Jews that wrongly thought he was claiming to be God .and as Jesus himself said in John 10;36...........i am Gods son.

[mee]

Originally Posted by Dor

We have been over this how many times now?

Me Ive told you start reading for yourself, not for The Watchtower.

yes the bible answers all questions and puts us straight, thats what i always do, i go straight to Gods word the bible . and i can see that Jesus is not God . knowing who the true God is ,and knowing who Jesus really is leads to everlasting life John 17;3 and as John 20 ;31 says But these have been written down that you may believe that Jesus is the christ the SON OF GOD, and that because of believing,you may have life by means of his name

[mee]

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

sounds good to me.

it may sound good but as its not inline with the bible it would be false and that would lead us away from the true God . sticking to the bible is the way to go as it leads to everlasting life John 17;3

[wil]

mee, how about those whole lines instead of just fractions from those texts you were citing...do you have them so we can compare?

[Silas]

Originally Posted by mee

many such as myself have found greater understanding of the bible and what it teaches when more research is done , looking at the context in John 8;58 we can see just what Jesus meant . and reading a good translation clears things up for people......................Jesus said to them,Most truly i say to you ,Before Abraham came into existence,i have been .John 8;58 Jesus was making the point that he knew the Father Jehovah because he had a pre-human life in the heavens with his father Jehovah even before Abraham was born, notice how the Jews said to him in verse 57 You are not yet fifty years old and still you have seen abraham? Jesus was telling it just how it was, he was not lying. it was the Jews that wrongly thought he was claiming to be God .and as Jesus himself said in John 10;36...........i am Gods son.

Jesus used the greek present tense word "ego emi" meaning "I am." So it could not have been "I have been" as you claim. If Jesus said, "Before Abraham was, I have been" as you opt for, they wouldnt have tried to kill him. He said, "Before Abraham was, I am." And the listeners knew exactly what He meant and therefore, not believing Him, tried to kill him.

[Silas]

Originally Posted by mee

it may sound good but as its not inline with the bible it would be false and that would lead us away from the true God . sticking to the bible is the way to go as it leads to everlasting life John 17;3

"And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent" (John 17:3).

Here is a simple explanation of how eternal life is obtained. It is by knowing God and Jesus Christ. The only true God is in contrast to idols, which are not genuine gods at all. This verse does not mean that Jesus Christ is not the true God. The fact that His Name is mentioned together with God the Father's as being the joint source of eternal life means that They are equal. Here the Lord called Himself Jesus Christ. Christ was the same as Messiah. This verse disproves the charge that Jesus never claimed to be the Messiah. Moreover, Mee, if you know your OT, it proves that Messiah is God in the flesh.

[mee]

Originally Posted by Silas

Jesus used the greek present tense word "ego emi" meaning "I am." So it could not have been "I have been" as you claim. If Jesus said, "Before Abraham was, I have been" as you opt for, they wouldnt have tried to kill him. He said, "Before Abraham was, I am." And the listeners knew exactly what He meant and therefore, not believing Him, tried to kill him.

just because the Jews thought wrongly , does not mean that Jesus said he was God .jesus said he was Gods son
John 10;36 and we should listen to Jesus.

Joh

8:58—"before Abraham came into existence, I have been"
Gr., πρ

ιν᾿Αβρααµ γενέσθαιεγω ειµί

(prin A·bra·am´ ge·ne´sthai e·go´ ei·mi´)

[Silas]

Originally Posted by mee

just because the Jews thought wrongly , does not mean that Jesus said he was God .jesus said he was Gods son
John 10;36 and we should listen to Jesus.

Two Questions:

1. Do you actually agree with the Pharisees and Sadducees?

2. If the greek present tense word for "I am" is used (and it is), why do you translate it "I have been?"

By the way, I agree with you! Jesus did say He is the Son of God.