Who is Jesus?

[Dondi]

Saltmeister,

I have another thought that goes along with what you are saying about we being the spiritual temple. I related the idea that the Shekinah glory of God disappeared about the same time as the diappearance of the Ark of the Covenant in this thread:

http://www.comparative-religion.com/...ty-5240-3.html

What Jesus seemed to offer was a tranferrence from a temple made of hands (i.e. Solomon's Temple) to one not made of hands (our body). The veil ripped the moment He died and thus ending any thought that the Shekinah glory of God would ever be in a ritual temple. But rather the Holy Spirit would indwell man. An interesting article that goes into the idea of our bodies as the temple of the Spirit as it relates to Solomon's temple is found here:

http://www.khouse.org/articles/1997/25/

One significant quote from this article:

"It means receiving a totally new power source or life source. God has united our spirit with His and we have become one spirit with Him. 1 Corinthians 6:17 validates this, "...he that is joined unto the Lord is [now] one spirit [with Him]." So, our spirit is now the new energy source that will create God's Life within us." - Nancy Missler, Be Ye Transformed

[AletheiaRivers]

Originally Posted by Dondi

What Jesus seemed to offer was a tranferrence from a temple made of hands (i.e. Solomon's Temple) to one not made of hands (our body).

<snip>

So, our spirit is now the new energy source that will create God's Life within us." - Nancy Missler, Be Ye Transformed

Great post and I agree!

The word "messiah" and the word "Christ" both mean annointed. When the Holy Spirit was poured out at pentacost, how would you describe what happened to them?

They were annointed with Holy Spirit. They were Christed.

Cool huh?!?

I posted this link on another thread, but I'll post it here again. It talks about our role as the body (branches) of Christ (the head, the vine). Plus lots of other great stuff.

http://frimmin.com/faith/theosis.html

[Jeannot]

Even the OT says, "It will come about after this that I will pour out My Spirit on all mankind,
And your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams,
Your young men will see visions. (Joel 2:28)

[Dondi]

Originally Posted by Jeannot

Even the OT says, "It will come about after this that I will pour out My Spirit on all mankind,
And your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams,
Your young men will see visions. (Joel 2:28)

Not to mention that Peter quotes the same passage from Joel in Acts 2 shortly after Pentacost when the Holy Spirit came upon them. Intgerestingly, the Spirit appeared as flames of fire, much like the Shekinah pillar of fire in Mose's Tabernacle in the wilderness.

[Dondi]

Originally Posted by AletheiaRivers

Great post and I agree!

The word "messiah" and the word "Christ" both mean annointed. When the Holy Spirit was poured out at pentacost, how would you describe what happened to them?

They were annointed with Holy Spirit. They were Christed.

Cool huh?!?

I posted this link on another thread, but I'll post it here again. It talks about our role as the body (branches) of Christ (the head, the vine). Plus lots of other great stuff.

http://frimmin.com/faith/theosis.html

I had read that article on that website sometime ago. Thanks for refreshing my memory of it. Got some interesting links, also.

We are joint-heirs (Romans 8:17) with Christ as well as kings and priests (Revelations 5:10).

[Azure24]

I don't mean to end the discussion but it does not matter what Jesus was but what he has done and for us to follow his example!

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Azure24

I don't mean to end the discussion but it does not matter what Jesus was but what he has done and for us to follow his example!

But that is just it. Jesus IS, not was...

v/r

Q

[enton]

Originally Posted by Rafey

Can someone tell me please how Jesus relates to the Holy Ghost? Thank you.

Jesus, first of all, is the Name as related to the original Hebrew Immanuel. You can read the propechy in Isaiah 7:14 and Isaiah 9:6. Jesus is also the Christ (the Anointed One).

Psalms 45:7 Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

The Holy Spirit is part of Godhead (also known in the Genesis creation as "Elohim", but elohim is also applied in Psalms 82:1,6) The Holy Spirit is called by Christ as "another comforter."

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

So, it implies that Jesus Christ is also a Comforter, just like the Father, the very Comforter.

Just read this verse:

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

That verse explains the greatness of Christ over the Holy Spirit. God the Father did not introduce the Christ to the church of the elders. He introduced Him here:

Matthew 17:5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

So the order in Godhead starts with the Father, then the Son, then the Holy Spirit.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Don't confuse God the Father from the Holy Spirit to mean the same Spirit, though in everlasting to everlasting the Father is a Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit (the one whom Christ sent into His church) is a Spirit which proceeded from the Father of spirits.

[enton]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Jesus is Logos, true. The Bible is the God inspired word as written by men. Is that what you meant? Or are you implying that the Bible is false? Is so, then where did we find out about Jesus the Messiahah in the first place?

Perhaps you meant Jesus is the Word, and the Bible is the word, of God...

The Bible contains the words of God, or the word of truth (Gospel), though you may consider the Gospel of Christ as Bible also, just like the Five Books of Moses which were considered as Bible also. But restrictively biblically speaking, the Bible (66 books) cannot be biblically considered as the Word of God or just the word of God because not all passages of statements there are word/s of God the Father.

It is enough to say that:

The Bible is the Book of the LORD. Isaiah 34:16
Christ Jesus is the Word of God.

But it is misleading to say: the Bible is the word/Word of God.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by enton

The Bible contains the words of God, or the word of truth (Gospel), though you may consider the Gospel of Christ as Bible also, just like the Five Books of Moses which were considered as Bible also. But restrictively biblically speaking, the Bible (66 books) cannot be biblically considered as the Word of God or just the word of God because not all passages of statements there are word/s of God the Father.

It is enough to say that:

The Bible is the Book of the LORD. Isaiah 34:16
Christ Jesus is the Word of God.

But it is misleading to say: the Bible is the word/Word of God.

Hmmm, that is an interesting way of looking at it. Perhaps that is correct.

v/r

Q

[Saltmeister]

Originally Posted by enton

The Bible contains the words of God, or the word of truth (Gospel), though you may consider the Gospel of Christ as Bible also, just like the Five Books of Moses which were considered as Bible also. But restrictively biblically speaking, the Bible (66 books) cannot be biblically considered as the Word of God or just the word of God because not all passages of statements there are word/s of God the Father.

It is enough to say that:

The Bible is the Book of the LORD. Isaiah 34:16
Christ Jesus is the Word of God.

But it is misleading to say: the Bible is the word/Word of God.

Yes, I agree, to some extent.

By "Word of God," a lot of people mean an Instruction Manual that contains no errors (scientifically, theologically and logically) or mistakes. A legal document, technical manual, a science textbook, a book of propositions. That, though is not how I think we should see the Bible.

The "Word of God" in John 1 is the Logos, Greek for the reasoning or wisdom (of God), which is purely abstract and word-less. The Bible itself is more like a Journal (rather than instruction manual) that records the thoughts, experiences and insights of the prophets and apostles. These prophets and apostles were people who discovered, understood and had an intimate and personal connection with the Logos. The purpose of the Bible is to remind us of what these prophets/apostles discovered. By reading the Bible, we rediscover what the personal Christ/Messiah meant to these prophets/apostles and by doing so we can realise what the personal Christ/Messiah means for us.

The Bible is the "Word of God" only when its true meaning is uncovered. Otherwise, it's just a bunch of words. A language is just a structural and systematic framework for the expression of meaning. Words are part of this framework, yet sometimes in literature they have a meaning outside of that framework. An example is the use of metaphors, puns and colloquiallisms. They often convey an agenda that cannot be known in terms of the words themselves. Sometimes it requires knowledge of how life and society works. When reading literature like the Bible, the idea is not to confine the meaning to the words themselves, but try and discern what the words are trying to say.

The phrase "word of God" is highly subjective and really depends on what you consider to be the "word of God." Is it a technical and literal specification or wisdom independent of words?

[AletheiaRivers]

The Bible itself is more like a Journal (rather than instruction manual) that records the thoughts, experiences and insights of the prophets and apostles. These prophets and apostles were people who discovered, understood and had an intimate and personal connection with the Logos.

I couldn't have put it better.

The more I study Christ as Logos, the more awed I become at the wisdom and insight found in Scripture that pertains to the Word.

[enton]

Originally Posted by Saltmeister

Yes, I agree, to some extent.

The phrase "word of God" is highly subjective and really depends on what you consider to be the "word of God." Is it a technical and literal specification or wisdom independent of words?

We have to be biblically, logically and linguistically specific.
Word of God, Word of life = Christ Jesus (John 1:1 etc)
word of God = word of truth, word of life, Gospel of salvation
Bible = books, book of the LORD.

The 66 books or the Bible contains statements and declarations which are not spoken by God or by men of God.

[inhumility]

Originally Posted by RubySera_Martin

And inhumility, I personally am very interested in a Muslim's view of who Jesus is and how it fits into your life. I'm not sure where the "lines of the law" fall on this forum but I think it should be allowable if it is given in an attempt to help Christians understand their own religion.

In the above spirit expressed by you, I submit my view on the topic “Who is Jesus?” Mine is basically and naturally view of an Ahmadi - a faith in Islam, since I am follower of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (AS, 1835-1908), who proclaimed that he was the same Messiah/Imam Mahdi as prophesized by Hazrat Muhammad (SAW) in his Tradition or Ahadith and as alluded in Quran,a true Spiritual and Peaceful Successor of Muhammad in the latter days.
Following points must be carefully noted here so that one does not misunderstand the Claim of Ahmad, right from the start.
1. Ahmad, as per his claim, is neither literally born of Mary mother of Jesus nor he is literally Jesus, a prophet of Israel who was put on Cross by his opponents, but he did not die a cursed/unnatural death on Cross, though he swooned on the Cross, treated for his serious injuries in the grave, yet got cured, met his disciples and confidents, showed his wounds to them ate with them so they may recognize him that he was the same person ( not a spirit or ghost) that was put on Cross. From Galilee, where he last met his disciples and confidents, Jesus wet to some unknown (to ordinary Christians and Muslims) destination not to sky or heaven but to lost tribes of Israel in far off lands, where he died a natural death at some point in the history.
2. Ahmad was born of Muslim parents in Quadian a town in India, yet he claims in another sense, which is truly metaphoric/symbolic/spiritual, for himself to be Mary, Son of Mary (Ibne Marium), Jesus, Messiah etc as per Muhammad's Tradition and as per Quran. Ahmad is not a born again of any person in the past.
3. Ahmad whom henceforth I would refer as Promised Messiah, in the specific meanings as explained in the previous paragraphs, his advent from God as a Peaceful Religious Reformer is for Uniting All the Religions of the World peacefully into one entity with reason, dialogue, peaceful prayers, peacefully and nothing else but peacefully; he categorically abolished Jehad-war for supremacy of religious beliefs.
4. Promised Messiah has also informed that all Revealed Religions of the world are truthful in their origin as also their religious reformers are true Prophets/Messengers from God i.e. Moses, Krishna, Buddha, Zoroaster, Jesus (not Paul) and Muhammad etc (their common belief being Oneness of God) are all true Prophets/Messengers/Chosen’s of God.
5. We believe and use Books of all these Revealed Religions , containing true guidance from God starting from the time of Adam as and when God revealed his Word on any of his obedient Man as he chose under an elaborate system as mentioned in Quran, without ambiguities, contradictions and doubts whatsoever.
This is in short.
Thanks

[Quahom1]

The Bible itself is more like a Journal (rather than instruction manual) that records the thoughts, experiences and insights of the prophets and apostles. These prophets and apostles were people who discovered, understood and had an intimate and personal connection with the Logos.

Then by the very acceptance of the words of the prophets, one can not but admit that the Bible is in fact an instruction manual (as well as a journal). For what is a prophet, if not one who warns us to change our ways, before it is too late?

The Journal part, tells us of the successes and "failures" of man adhering to the instructions of God.

I have searched dictionaries over and over, and no where do I find the definition of "Commandment" described as "a suggestion".

my thoughts

v/r

Q