Who do you like?

[bob x]

The Michigan ballot offers Clinton, Kucinich, Gravel, and Dodd (already dropped out). I'm voting for Kucinich.

[wil]

Originally Posted by bob x

The Michigan ballot offers Clinton, Kucinich, Gravel, and Dodd (already dropped out). I'm voting for Kucinich.

For those of you who wonder where Obama is...there are no delegates in Michigan. They moved their primary ahead without the approval of the DNC so they got docked and have no delegates to go to the convention.

For those who follow some of this..some of the sites I look at.

Election Guide 2008 - Presidential Election - Politics
Wyoming caucus results - USATODAY.com
RealClearPolitics - Election 2008 - Michigan Democratic Primary

[China Cat Sunflower]

DailyKos is urging Dems in Michigan to vote for Romney in the upcoming primary. The logic is that keeping the race for the GOP nomination wide open will keep the Republicans trashing each other with attack ads and spending tons of money. That will work to the Dems advantage in November.

Here's the link:Daily Kos: State of the Nation

Chris

[Pathless]

Originally Posted by bob x

The Michigan ballot offers Clinton, Kucinich, Gravel, and Dodd (already dropped out). I'm voting for Kucinich.

Excellent. Good to hear that Kucinich is on the ballot, and good to hear of people voting for him.

[Pathless]

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

DailyKos is urging Dems in Michigan to vote for Romney in the upcoming primary. The logic is that keeping the race for the GOP nomination wide open will keep the Republicans trashing each other with attack ads and spending tons of money. That will work to the Dems advantage in November.

Here's the link:Daily Kos: State of the Nation

Chris

Wouldn't Democratic voters need to change their party affiliation to do that?? Independents could do that, but not Democrats.

And what a cynical strategy. **** like that is what makes me loathe American presedintial politics. What a load of steaming horse****.

[Pathless]

Originally Posted by wil

For those of you who wonder where Obama is...there are no delegates in Michigan. They moved their primary ahead without the approval of the DNC so they got docked and have no delegates to go to the convention.

For those who follow some of this..some of the sites I look at.

Election Guide 2008 - Presidential Election - Politics
Wyoming caucus results - USATODAY.com
RealClearPolitics - Election 2008 - Michigan Democratic Primary

What? What do you mean, no delegates? No candidates? How are Clinton, Kucinich, and the rest on the ballot but no Obama? I don't understand. Another reason I despise the political processes in this country. They are so large-scale, so clumsy, so non-sensical, it's no wonder we end up with horrible people representing us. We might as well roll dice. That'd be more fun. The whole presedential campaigning thing is nothing more than a media-fed and imaginary dollar-funded speculative statistical machine. In November, moments after the last "votes" are in throughout the country, cloned newscasters everywhere will poop the results from their mouths and zombies all across America will drool and wave flags. More bombs will fall and poverty rates will increase. Schools will close and students will be shipped off to die over and over again for commodities.

In this arena, I'm a cynic, but with good reason. Presedential campaigns are just not viable. We don't decide anything. It's corporations, media, and big money, a big brainswashing and manipulating father brain. Yay freedom. Yay democracy.

On another hand, I clicked a few links away from wil's post and got to this dumb article, which tells us that high-school educated religious racist reactionaries in my home state of South Carolina will probably vote in flocks for the shephard Huckabee. And you know what? The more the media tells those fools in South Carolina and in other states throughout our great nation what and who they are going to vote for, the more likely it becomes. The more we buy into the fabrications of these media-saturated primaries and listen to who is "eliminated," then vote accordingly, hedging our bets against the system, the worse off we become, surrendering what little bit of official political power we have to the media-government-corporate triangle of death. It's a sickening system of feedback and self-fulfilling propehcies.

Here's what cosmetically subdued and conventionally raised housewives in good ol' SC figure a revolution is like. This is a quote from a woman mentioned in the above article, talking about voting for the Revolutionary Huckabee:

``If you don't feel like the establishment is representing you, you'll elect somebody else,'' said Stec, a 34-year-old working mother. ``That's called revolution, right?''

Jesus F. Christ.

[China Cat Sunflower]

Originally Posted by Pathless

Wouldn't Democratic voters need to change their party affiliation to do that?? Independents could do that, but not Democrats.

And what a cynical strategy. **** like that is what makes me loathe American presedintial politics. What a load of steaming horse****.

No, in Michigan anyone can vote in any primary. If you follow the link it gives a historical rundown of the dirty tricks that have been played in Mich. over the years.

Chris

[China Cat Sunflower]

Some states like Michigan and Florida moved their primaries up in defiance of the DNC (Democratic National Committee). Supposedly their delegates won't be seated at the convention. We'll see about that.

Chris

[wil]

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

Some states like Michigan and Florida moved their primaries up in defiance of the DNC (Democratic National Committee). Supposedly their delegates won't be seated at the convention. We'll see about that.

Chris

It has happened to Republicans as well who didn't abide by their party rules. This is all great in my book, so many will be disenfranchised by their own party folks will start to think for themselves.

John Zogby of Zogby polling believes that the polling and voting public is taking things into their own hands now. For so many years IA, NH, & SC had so much power in the elections they chased second tier and even 2nd and 3rd place off the ballot. He feels two things are going on, one they are now lying to the pollsters just to screw with the numbers and invalidate the polls. Second he feels that they are actually watching the polls and the previous elections and insuring that the poll numbers look haywire, and the maximum amount of candidates stay in the races so true choice is achieved.

This however fits right into the decision making smoke filled room plans of both the RNC and the DNC, they've both minimized the amount of delegates any state can give to the front runner leaving enough on the table that they can have brokered conventions(move those delegates to the backroom chosen favorite.)

[Pathless]

We Deserve What We Get
Erica Jong

Posted January 13, 2008 06:52 PM (EST)



This column is not about Hillary vs. Obama vs. Edwards. The truth is if I had the choice I'd vote for Dennis Kucinich because he's against the war, for the impeachment of war criminals in government, smart on the environment and the economy, and he has a sense of humor about UFOS. He's not afraid to joke about 'em for fear he'll be labeled a nutcase -- as indeed he was.


But I don't have that option. Kucinich represents my views, but he only got 1% in New Hampshire. Too bad.


I want to talk not about candidates but about our media turning every presidential election into a high school popularity contest. And we let them get away with it. And we don't stop Rupert Murdoch, Clear Channel, Disney, GE, Sumner Redstone and a few others from owning all the media all the time.






Full article

[wil]

Funny the pundits.

Michigan Results

With Obama and Edwards not on the ballot, Uncommitted got the largest share of votes after Hillary, of course nothing counts on Democrat side, no delegates.

Now the conservative talkshow hosts dislike McCain so much that with his second place finish they are indicating he is out of the race, but with Huckbee's third, Thompson's fifth and Guliani's sixth, they are still in the running. Guliani still hasn't showed up anywhere, but I do expect him to start pulling from the back of the pack and trying. Romney and Huckabee I suspect will begin to tire on the way to Super Tuesday.

Ron Paul got fourth place, twice as many votes as Guliani, and still little play and much disdain. His followers continue to make their way thru the screeners on radio and television talkshows and keep him afloat. I still expect his followers to demand and him to comply to make a third party run. He'll have some appeal for both Dems (getting out of Iraq) and Reps (smaller gov't, revised tax structure) Especially if McCain gets the nod.

Nevada for both parties and South Carolina for Republicans this weekend, and the results will still confound the pundits, pollsters and public, with no clear leader, me thinks.

[Pathless]

Originally Posted by wil

With Obama and Edwards not on the ballot, Uncommitted got the largest share of votes after Hillary, of course nothing counts on Democrat side, no delegates.

This situation of no delegates--what's that about? Does it seem maybe kinda wrong to anyone else? From what I understand, the convention was moved up (by the DNC?? what? why?) and for that reason, they will not get delegates for the election. This, if I understand our convoluted electoral process correctly, basically makes the whole Michigan primary meaningless for the democrat side. So why even bother? Hell, if I were in Michigan and this was my political primary reality, I would have a hard time not feeling completely disenfranchised. I'd re-register as an independent and toss my vote out for the Cookie Monster.

Democracy? Or vote manipulation?

[Pathless]

And then we have B. Obama rattling on about Reagan changing "the trajectory of America" after the "excesses" of the '60s and '70s--as if this were a good thing.

Cookie Monster, I love you.

Originally Posted by Senator Barack Obama

“I think Ronald Reagan changed the trajectory of America in a way that Richard Nixon did not and in a way that Bill Clinton did not. He put us on a fundamentally different path, because the country was ready for it. I think they felt like with all the excesses of the 1960s and 1970s and government had grown and grown, but there wasn’t much sense of accountability in terms of how it was operating. I think people—he just tapped into what people were already feeling, which was we want clarity, we want optimism, we want a return to that sense of dynamism and entrepreneurship that had been missing.”

Source: Obama Appears to Laud Reagan for Confronting 1960-70s “Excesses� - CommonDreams.org

[flowperson]

Hi Pathless...I generally like Barack and his message. He'd probably make a good President if he can survive until he gets to the time when that might be possible.

OTOH, his statement regarding "Ronnie" and his renovations in the 80's is a generally uneducated one. He can't have made it from memory and emotion since those of us who lived through those years remember them as an awakening to the possibilities of a nation molded upon the true wishes of a free people.

But of course there were wretched excesses. Change isn't easy, especially when it tends towards anarchic excess. But some of that was staged and initiated by the dark elements in society to scapegoat those who would and could make a better and more promising future for us all. Look up "cointelpro","Project Mockingbird" ,and "Operation Garden Plot" , if you don't believe me. Most of these intelligence and military programs were started in the 50's in anticipation of the budding wishes and revolutionary excess of the "60's and 70"s". It was during "Ronnie's" rule that the darkness of these Neo-fascist countermeasures made their influence known in the open. Remember the slogan of the era, "Greed is Good."

Somebody needs to lend Barack a copy of "Dutch", Reagan's biography. Then he'll realize that Ronnie was really just another programmed and incurious puppet of the legions of the dark side elevated to power only to implement and strengthen their programs and purposes. And Ronnie even started out as a Democrat !

Keep on keepin' on my bro.

flow....

[Pathless]

Here are some interesting polls that show large popular support for congressman Dennis Kucinich, who it looks like is going to be excluded from the March 4th primaries in Texas because he refuses to sign a "party oath" that the Texas Democratic Party is insisting on.