Where was Eden, and does it matter?

[ProphetSmurf]

A proposal, does it matter? Depends on if someone thinks they can enter or not. A cherub with a double edged sword guards the entrance, now what does that mean??
As for location, its more than likely underwater these days.

[Satanist]

My pet theory is Iran or Iraque becouse most of Genesis are from babylonian mythology
even though the later Persian religion become Zoroatrism invented the seven days and most of the religion that the Jews got under the Babylonian capture
and that was why the persian King who conqured Babylonia and made Parsia freed the Jews.
The actual Monotheism is from egypt.
The creation in seven days is Zoroastrian in which The ligh god creates good things and a minor good good associatied with each day and
then the dark god is creating each night.
The deluge myth is older than Zoroatrism.

Therefore the Guarden was actually the hanging guardens of Babylon and Adam and Eve where the mythological God king and Goddess queen Ashur and Ishtar.
The mesopotamians believed that mankind was a slaverase
and that The King and Queen ever going incarnations/possession of the same actual God pair of a devine kingdom.

The Zoroastrian kingdom is actually the kingdom of God.

[Satanist]

Originally Posted by ProphetSmurf

A proposal, does it matter? Depends on if someone thinks they can enter or not. A cherub with a double edged sword guards the entrance, now what does that mean??
As for location, its more than likely underwater these days.

The double egged sword.
It means the double flooded kingoms of Mesopotamia
that was ever guarded against nomadic invadors that
Moral dualism orginated here,
with the first gods of pure good and pure evil as separate gods and godesses instead of neutral forces.
The evil gods and godessess every actuallt older religion
that was fought just a the jews demonised other gods.
The god gods were always the patrons of the at that time "new"
moralistic society.
The myth of the sinfull deluge also orginated here and therefore also the niphilim ledgend of half-angels though those obviously were orginaly Gods and heroes.

[bananabrain]

The evil gods and godessess every actuallt older religion
that was fought just a the jews demonised other gods.

ahem. if you have a problem with judaism i'd appreciate it if you raised it on the judaism board - especially as i can't actually make out what you're actually saying here due to the lack of spelling and grammar.

b'shalom

bananabrain

[pohaikawahine]

Originally Posted by ProphetSmurf

A proposal, does it matter? Depends on if someone thinks they can enter or not. A cherub with a double edged sword guards the entrance, now what does that mean??
As for location, its more than likely underwater these days.

I think anyone can enter when they stop the outside search for eden .... I wish I could send some diagrams of the brain, but I'm not good enough at this computer stuff to do that .... there are two angels that look inward and guard the entrance to the holy of holies, or the ark of the covenant .... you can see it in a particular angle when you look at the caudate nucleus that covers the inner sanctum of the brain ..... at another angle it looks like the horns of a ram which is associated with the rams that guard the entrance to the great pyramid (interesting that from different angles you see angels or demons .... as the ram's horn is usually associated with the devil) .... I wasn't going to post this time, but prophetsmurf you always post a symbol that draws my interest .... the entire human body is actually a model of solomon's temple and perhaps it is solomon's temple .... I've tried a couple of threads about symbols but there doesn't seem to be much interest for whatever reason .... I only know that from my point of view the search can only take place internally .... to me it is a waste of our energy to look outside and it cost a lot, the internal energy is everlasting and free (considering the cost of gas these days, seems like a good bet to me) .... when we remember who we were, we will know who we are and freedom can never be taken away again .... we must wake from the deep sleep and take back the power that we gave away to others long ago .... just my thoughts ....it's all about energy and light .... he hawai'i au, pohaikawahine

[Satanist]

Originally Posted by bananabrain

ahem. if you have a problem with judaism i'd appreciate it if you raised it on the judaism board - especially as i can't actually make out what you're actually saying here due to the lack of spelling and grammar.

b'shalom

bananabrain

I have no problem with Judaism that is relevant.
It is a fact that Judaism and Zoroatrism demonized gods of other religions.
Hinduism and the ancient greeks has done similar things so that is nothing new.
I just wanted to say that I think Eden was in Mesopotamia and why.
Sorry for the bad spelling but I do think you can read what I posted.

[ProphetSmurf]

[quote=Satanist]
Therefore the Guarden was actually the hanging guardens of Babylon and Adam and Eve where the mythological God king and Goddess queen Ashur and Ishtar.


Contraire, these 'original god and goddess' cults/religions stem from Semiramis and Nimrod, the beginnings of all the mother/child religions. The Egyptian mother and child were worshiped as Isis with the infant Osiris or Horus seated on his mother's lap. Ancient Germans worshipped the virgin Hertha with child in arms. Scandinavians called her Disa pictured with child. In India, the mother and child were called Devaki and Krishna, and also Isi and Iswara as they are worshiped to this day. In Asia, they were known as Cybele and Deoius; in pagan Rome, as Fortuna and Jupiter-puer, or Jupiter, the boy; in Greece, as Ceres, the great mother with babe at her breast, or as Irene, the goddess of peace, with the boy Plutus in her arms.The image of mother with child in her arms was so firmly entrenched in the pagan mind that by the time Christianity appeared on the scene in 30 A.D., these statues and paintings were merely renamed and worshiped as the virgin Mary with her god-incarnate son Jesus. Thus, the pagan mother and child entered Christianity as the Roman Catholic worship of Mary with the infant Jesus. In fact, in Tibet, China, and Japan, Jesuit missionaries were astonished to find the counterpart of the madonna and child as devoutly worshiped as they were in Rome. Shing Moo, the holy mother in China was portrayed with a child in her arms and a glory around her, exactly as if she had been fashioned by Roman Catholic artisans. After Nimrod was slain, Semiramis convinced the people of Babylon that Nimrod was a god (the sun god Baal), and that she was a goddess (the Queen of Heaven). She also passed off their son Tammuz as Nimrod reincarnated . And the people bought it. Semiramis is also Nimrods own mother. Interesting trivia piece, Nimrod was born on December 25th. Last comment, and probably her biggest hoax, and funniest, Semiramis convinces the people she was a virgin. We should start a forum on this wonderful couple by themselves.

[Satanist]

Nice and interesting.

Feel free to start that forum.

How is that relevant?
The old baby & goddess and father?

I said that Ashur and Ishtar are Adam and Eve becouse the stories of adam and eve in the guarden parallel Mesopotamian legends were
Ashur and Ishtar walk in a guarden.

And this in addition I meant that Bybylon was "Eden"
.I am talking about the style and the stories and the ideas.

I was trying to get attention to a particical idea of historical treads.

I don't deny that Gods or religion are older than this.

I didn't disscuss the orgin of the universal devine couple.
I meant the Zoroatristian gods were the first dualistic gods
devided into
Good and evil
and therefore of special menging to Jewish and Angel-mythological orgins.

[Nogodnomasters]

The divine couple was Virgo-Leo. Sometimes the woman is sometimes paired with a lion such as Heba (Hittite origen of Eve). Before 2000 BCE Leo was the home of the summer solstice which placed imporatance on solar gods such as Ra. The child was a constellation above Virgo which was originally part of Leo. This later became Coma, although the child prodigy significance remained the same. In the temple of Denderah it is pictured as the classic mother with child.

In the Jewish cosmic myth the ruddy Adam (red star Regulus heart of Leo) was Leo and Virgo was Eve. At one time the cosmic lion Asad stretch several constellations. Eve (Virgo) was taken from the rib of this huge constellation. After the Greeks took over Judea the constellation was broken up by astrologers. Eve (Virgo) was now connected to the tail of Leo. This proved to be a problem for the Hebrews who wanted their cosmic myth to be correct. In order to correct this they devised a Midrash which stated Adam had a tail and Eve has made from Adam's tail bone. It would be odd such a story would develop after the Bible clearly states "rib" unless they were attempting to correct the cosmic myth.

[ProphetSmurf]

I love this board, so much information coming together as if parts of a giant puzzle. My hat is of to all that contribute !!! Oh, something to enjoy, related but yet unrelated, to gardens or gods. What would the ancients have said at this?? My boys are fascinated with things like this below. Take it in and just marvel at the beauty.

[queenofsheba]

Interesting: the word "paradise" derives from the Ancient Persian "para-daidos". It means "surrounded by walls" and refers to the Persian gardens. However, if I recall well, the word paradise is never used in Genesis?

Theory about the snake: this is a typical myth in the style of "how did the animals get their shape?". The snake is punished by having to crawl in the sand for eternity.

There were two trees: the Tree of Life and the Tree of Knowledge. Unfortunately, Eve ate from the wrong one, so we are still mortal, but we have a lot of knowledge.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by queenofsheba

Interesting: the word "paradise" derives from the Ancient Persian "para-daidos". It means "surrounded by walls" and refers to the Persian gardens. However, if I recall well, the word paradise is never used in Genesis?

Theory about the snake: this is a typical myth in the style of "how did the animals get their shape?". The snake is punished by having to crawl in the sand for eternity.

There were two trees: the Tree of Life and the Tree of Knowledge. Unfortunately, Eve ate from the wrong one, so we are still mortal, but we have a lot of knowledge.

We were forbidden from eating of the tree in the center of the garden (knowledge). It is only after that, that we were sent from the garden before we could eat from the tree of life. Knowledge didn't teach us right from wrong, it taught us something more sinister...good and evil. I think this is a big difference.

For example, It is right to eat, but wrong (or unwise) to over stuff one's self with food. This makes for a very unpleasant aftermath. It is good to provide meat and skins for one's family, but it is evil to take life for the pleasure of it (trophy hunting).

just a thought.

v/r

Q

[Rouge47]

I know that the Cromagnon(Man) pushed out the Neanderthal Race when they began to populate southern France and other territory above the Mediterranian Sea(big word; can't spell it) They(we; man) came from around Central Africa and moved up. So could the Garden of Eden be there? After all it is rich in fertility down there. It would make a perfect garden to me.

PJ

[InquisitiveInHalifax]

In the gnostic teachings Eve ate from the tree of knowledge to awaken mankind, that we had to be awakened and go through all that we have and will in order to reach enlightenment.

In the Da Vinci Code by Dan Brown (reading that is what eventually lead me here) it is pointed out that the apple is ripe, pun intended (lol), with symbols of the divine feminine. When cut in half the core of an apple reveals the shape of a five-pointed star (pentagram) which is the path that the planet venus travels through our night-sky. The apple that Eve is traditionally shown eating is also red in colour with the five sides or parts similar to the female genitalia!

I know this has little to do with where the Garden of Eden is or if it even exists but I thought it was too interesting not to share. And I'm tired of carrying the burden of original sin.

I really enjoyed what ProphetSmurf had discussed regarding all of the examples of a divine mother and child in so many different religions throughout history. I'd noticed the same thing but didn't know as many examples as that!

[mee]

(E´den) [Pleasure]

A region in which the Creator planted a gardenlike park as the original home of the first human pair. The statement that the garden was "in Eden, toward the east," apparently indicates that the garden occupied only a portion of the region called Eden. (Ge 2:8) However, the garden is thereafter called "the garden of Eden" (Ge 2:15) and, in later texts, is spoken of as "Eden, the garden of God" (Eze 28:13), and as "the garden of Jehovah."—Isa 51:3.

The Septuagint rendered the Hebrew word for "garden" (gan) by the Greek word pa·ra´dei·sos. To this fact we owe our association of the English word "paradise" with the garden of Eden.
The original site of the garden of Eden is conjectural. The principal means of identifying its geographic location is the Bible’s description of the river "issuing out of Eden," which thereafter divided into four "heads," producing the rivers named as the Euphrates, Hiddekel, Pishon, and Gihon. (Ge 2:10-14) The Euphrates (Heb., Perath´) is well known, and "Hiddekel" is the name used for the Tigris in ancient inscriptions. (Compare also Da 10:4.) The other two rivers, the Pishon and the Gihon, however, are unidentified.
The traditional location for the garden of Eden has long been suggested to have been a mountainous area some 225 km (140 mi) SW of Mount Ararat and a few kilometers S of Lake Van, in the eastern part of modern Turkey. That Eden may have been surrounded by some natural barrier, such as mountains, could be suggested by the fact that cherubs are stated to have been stationed only at the E of the garden, from which point Adam and Eve made their exit.—Ge 3:24.