When is it appropriate to share your religious faith with others?

[Dondi]

Originally Posted by Nick the Pilot

Hi everybody!

I found some information regarding this topic. I have been studying something in psychology called codependency.

Co-dependents Anonymous

Codependency means someone is too needy.

According to some recent research, people who need to proselytize are doing this because they are too needy. I find the idea fascinating.

I think their research is right on.

You linked to the homepage, but I didn't find anything specific to proselyzing. Can you direct a link to the specific article?

[Vajradhara]

Namaste Mee,

thank you for the post.

Originally Posted by mee

Its very successful 7 million Jehovahs witnesses world wide.

there are some 6 Billion people on earth. 7 million isn't very successful.

nevertheless... simply stating that it is hasn't much to do with my statement of finding it hard to understand how it could be successful.

of course... door to door salesmen clearly made money too though i don't understand how.

metta,

~v

[wil]

Originally Posted by Vajradhara

Namaste Mee,

thank you for the post.



there are some 6 Billion people on earth. 7 million isn't very successful.

nevertheless... simply stating that it is hasn't much to do with my statement of finding it hard to understand how it could be successful.

of course... door to door salesmen clearly made money too though i don't understand how.

metta,

~v

You just hit the nail on the head there!

The door to door salesman didn't make money. 1 in 100 made a lot of money, 5 in 100 eaked out a living, 94 out of 100 left for a real job in a year or two of getting no where. But since it was comission sales, they company cleaned up. They made the same amount of money per sale if the guy sold one a week or 20 a week...the sweat equity wasn't put in by the firm.

So get yourself a few hundred thousand knocking on doors as volunteers for the effort. It is a numbers game and every time we hit 150 we build a new hall.... But it matters not how many shoes the door knockers wear out.

Namaste Nick,

I believe you hit on something too. Duty, guilt, whatever you want to call it, convince folks they got to go out and save folks, gotta bring them into the fold so they aren't lost sheep but located sheeple. Gotta do it, gotta tell everyone I know the secret and you don't.

[Paladin]

Originally Posted by Nick the Pilot

Hi everybody!

I found some information regarding this topic. I have been studying something in psychology called codependency.

Co-dependents Anonymous

Codependency means someone is too needy.

According to some recent research, people who need to proselytize are doing this because they are too needy. I find the idea fascinating.

I think their research is right on.

I think you've made a good connection Nick. I've been around the twelve step groups for years and I see the same similarities. Both groups use similar strategies and are prone to the same problems inherent in their modus operandi.
Being too concerned with the behavior of others, using all kinds of manipulative strategies to control that behavior rather than looking too deeply into their own motivations etc.. but one of my favorites is using the excuse that they have to do these things for your own good.
Go to any Al-Anon meeting and you hear the stories over and over again.
Thankfully there is hope.

[Nick the Pilot]

Wil,

You said,

"Gotta do it...."

--> One of the amazing things about codependency is the compulsive nature of needy behavior.

[Nick the Pilot]

Paladin,

You said,

"...using all kinds of manipulative strategies...."

--> One of the things I have noticed about needy people is how they try to "trick" people into a particular behavior. The answer to codependency is for them to stop talking and listen to what the other person is saying.

A classic example example of neediness is a guy who "hits" on women. Sadly, they "hit" on women, when the most effective thing they could do is the exact opposite.

Yes, there is a similarity between this and proselytizing.

[mee]

Originally Posted by Vajradhara

Namaste Mee,

thank you for the post.



there are some 6 Billion people on earth. 7 million isn't very successful.



metta,

~v

well when we think about it , Jesus did talk about a broad road that most people were on , and a narrow road that only a few were on .


and Jesus also likened our days to the days of Noah , not many took note of getting onboard the ark in Noahs day, that was why only 8 souls survived that deluge.


Noah preached that there was going to be a flood , and the way to salvation was to jump on board ,but people did not want it and took no note of the message that Noah proclaimed .


but at the end of the day those people
were well aware that a building work was going on, and they were also well aware that Noah was offering them a helping hand .
so even though at the momment there may be only 7 million taking note of climbing on board in a spiritual way , that GREAT CROWD is still being gathered REVELATION 7;9-10 MATTHEW 24;14



And it will be Jehovah the most high , along with his son Jesus christ that closes the door of opportunity.

[mee]

Originally Posted by wil

You just hit the nail on the head there!

The door to door salesman didn't make money. 1 in 100 made a lot of money, 5 in 100 eaked out a living, 94 out of 100 left for a real job in a year or two of getting no where. But since it was comission sales, they company cleaned up. They made the same amount of money per sale if the guy sold one a week or 20 a week...the sweat equity wasn't put in by the firm.

So get yourself a few hundred thousand knocking on doors as volunteers for the effort. It is a numbers game and every time we hit 150 we build a new hall.... But it matters not how many shoes the door knockers wear out.

Namaste Nick,

I believe you hit on something too. Duty, guilt, whatever you want to call it, convince folks they got to go out and save folks, gotta bring them into the fold so they aren't lost sheep but located sheeple. Gotta do it, gotta tell everyone I know the secret and you don't.

its good giving people GOODNEWS I LIKE DOING THAT
MATTHEW 24;14

[mee]

Originally Posted by Nick the Pilot

Wil,

You said,

"Gotta do it...."

--> One of the amazing things about codependency is the compulsive nature of needy behavior.

For mee i like to share my GOODNEWS thats because it is such GOODNEWS, i dont like to keep it all to myself.

sharing is good it benefits people .

[mee]

[quote=Nick the Pilot;146981]Wil,

You said,

"Gotta do it...."
quote]
its like a fountain bubbling up to impart EVERLASTING LIFE john 4;14

[Vajradhara]

Namaste Mee,

thank you for the post.

Originally Posted by mee

well when we think about it , Jesus did talk about a broad road that most people were on , and a narrow road that only a few were on .

when i think about this statement and your previous statement to me, it seems you've changed your view.

and Jesus also likened our days to the days of Noah , not many took note of getting onboard the ark in Noahs day, that was why only 8 souls survived that deluge.

the genetic implications of this are staggering but most CreationISM adherents have no clue as to what i'm talking about nor why this would create a situation where the human species wouldn't be existing as it does right now.

i know one Christian whos' stated view is "God did it, case closed." and they simply refuse to even look at any evidence which would demonstrate that their views regarding the natural world are demonstrably incorrect.

metta,

~v

[Paladin]

Originally Posted by Nick the Pilot

Paladin,

You said,

"...using all kinds of manipulative strategies...."

--> One of the things I have noticed about needy people is how they try to "trick" people into a particular behavior. The answer to codependency is for them to stop talking and listen to what the other person is saying.

A classic example example of neediness is a guy who "hits" on women. Sadly, they "hit" on women, when the most effective thing they could do is the exact opposite.

Yes, there is a similarity between this and proselytizing.

Nick,
Since you are studying the topic, I would be curious to see the similarities to Freudian projection and reaction formation as well.

[Dondi]

I think you are mistaken. I don't tell others about the gospel because I feel needy. I do it because it is a basic command from Christ, according to Mark 16:15. To not do it would be to not practice my faith.

And yes, there is the matter of letting others know. Wil, you seem to think that it's some kind of ego trip, that we have the 'privelege' to share the secret. But people that are unfamilar with the gospel just don't know what the bible says about. I know, I've seen the ignorance. And if this whole thing is a matter life and death, why wouldn't you consider it be important enough to share.

Really, all I aim to do is point people in a right direction. Give some element of hope to those who may not have hope. I could let everyone well alone and leave them to their own devices. To be honest, I'm not that eager to meet strangers. It's hard to get into the trenches and wonder what kind of person I might come across.

But if we take an example from the Apostles, they all did pretty much the same thing, only most of them got martyred for it. If they are willing to suffer rejection to that extreme, why shouldn't I take a little criticism. It ain't gonna kill me.

If I wanted to stroke my ego, I'd buy a Corvette. Or at least a Toyota Tundra.

[wil]

Namaste Dondi,

This being the belief and spirituality thread I have a question.

You say it is a matter of life and death, people are just unfamiliar. You also mentioned that early christians were martyred for it. Well they went willingly to the lions, much as our militant muslim friends and suicide bombings it was their belief at the time that they were guaranteed a space in heaven if they died preaching and held out, they weren't so different from those today.

Covey says seek first to understand then to be understood. Hindu's feel they have the answer, Muslims do as well, so do many others. So when you knock on the door and find someone who doesn't know Jesus, doesn't know the gospel, do you spend the time to get to know them? To get to know their religion?? Or are you selling your brand of salvation and don't care if they already have working model?

[Paladin]

Dondi,

I believe that what you say is honest and sincere. In my mind you are practicing your faith as best you can. But I also know what kind of person you are or at least I think I do from reading your posts here at CR for so long now.
I see you as straight forward, clear headed, kind, and genuinely concerned for the welfare of others.
I think what Nick is getting at is the dysfunctional approach to spreading the Good News and it isn't the faith or the message so much as it is another dysfunctional person, a person who truly needs help, acting out through the medium of religion.
For example, if you spoke to me in public about your faith and I smiled and said "No thanks" I'm sure you would respect my boundaries. I have had to become aggressive in enforcing my boundaries before from someone who wouldn't leave me alone, or that come to my door regardless of the No Solicitors sign clearly signaling my wish for privacy.
People like this aren't as interested in my welfare as acting out their own agenda. And it isn't surprising for me to note that when I do enforce my boundaries the other party sometimes claims that they are now being rejected for being Christian.
Personally I think there is some game-playing going on here, setting things up to be rejected so they can claim that they are suffering in Christs name.
Its this kind of stuff that makes me wonder...