What's meant by the Tower of Babel?

[tropheus74]

Originally Posted by Ontologue

Wondering whether anyone can offer any insight into the following theories: A. The confusion of the people's language after the building of the Tower of Babel can be viewed as the end of the single path to God era and the beginning of a new age auguring many paths to the same enlightenment. Since the builders' original intent was to reach God it stands to reason that that's what became confused - the builders being the archetype for humanity. For this purpose it's useful to think of religion more or less as a specialized mode of language or communion.

This is an interesting way to look at it, mythologically speaking. The story follows a common motif; that of Humankind striving to obtain more; Weather this is more than is allotted to them, or more than they are capable of, remains to be seen.

In the Icarus legend it is clear that Icarus, in his exilhiration, seeks to exceed his limitations. The sun melts his wings and sends him plummeting to earth. This is a more passive statement; Don't strive for that which you cannot attain, or it will destroy you.

Conversely, the Pegasus myth has the rider (and I forget his name) seeking to meet the Gods on Mount Olympus. This is clearly a breach of contract between the Gods and man; Be not so prideful; How dare you seek to be our equals! Zeus and Haephestus send bolts of lightning to knock this prideful little bugger back to the dirt he came from.

The Tower of Babel, in my opinion, parallels the Pegasus legend more strongly than that of Icarus. Here we have humanity, clearly striving to bring themselves to the level of the Gods, and they are brought low for it. There are some significant differences, however:

1. The gods were not afraid of the pegasus rider; they were punishing him for a transgression.

2. God, in the Babel story, clearly feels threatened by humanity.

While the Greeks say "you can never be as strong as the Gods, and it is impious and offensive to think so", this story says to me "Yikes; my creation has turned out to be rather clever. time for some damage control!"

So; in pegasus, the gods are motivated by anger; in Babel, God is motivated by Fear.

Second, is the driving force of the people; In pegasus, it is pride. What is it in Babel? We could say it is pride, but I think there is something more than that; There is an innate drive for humankind to improve themselves; In my mind, Babel is presenting a kind of chess game between God and Humanity; We are doing what everything in our power to "obtain the boon", and God is doing what he can to challenge us.

I do not intend to extrapolate this view of God to the rest of the bible, but limit it to this one story, which I believe is an oral tradition from the fertile crescent that worked its way into the bible.

[Satanist]

Well Babylonia had a huge tower looking temple and
it "suppressed" (or made them feel so) another culture:Persian and many others(jews).
In other words it tried to unite all the cultures through conquering and
the story symbolise it's mutli cultural hybris.
Also the Babylonian whore was probably the goddess Ishtar
which might be a sight of more sexual liberal culture that influenced the jews religion and culture from persians by family.

The Persians had a own religion Zoroatrism and took over.
They freed the Jews who were influnced by Zoroatirian ideas and
then the Persian empire started.

The Zoroatrians had a seven fold mythology and believed the world were created in seven days and night by seven gods for the days and seven gods for the nights. These were created on each day or nigh by the good god or evil god. Both were created by an alsmighty God beyond Good or Evil.

And the evil gods deveped from the previous Babylian gods
which might explain a negative view on Babylon.

I speculate that both Judaism and Zoroatrism had anti-natural and well anti liberal values in relation to Babylon.
Therefore the negative view and the idea of imprisonment.

[queenofsheba]

Great new theory about the Tower of Babel:

When the jews lived in exile in Babel, between 587 and 538 BC, they must have seen the famous ziggurat with the hanging gardens, one of the seven world wonders. They saw it as a symbol of evil, which inspired them to write the story in Genesis. This story is placed before the flud, so it can't be historical.
The ziggurat of Babel had seven floors, each in square form. The ratio between the square sides was based on the primal numbers(1=5,35m).
_2x_2=__4
_3x_3=__9
_5x_5=_25
_7x_7=_49
11x11=121
13x13=169
17x17=289
_____+___
..........666 = the number of the beast

[queenofsheba]

Originally Posted by tropheus74

What you are describing is the "Hanging Gardens", not the "Tower of Babel", unless, of course, the two are one. I would imagine that the Tower of Babel story predates the hanging gardens.

Anyone know when the hanging gardens were supposed to have been built?

The Hanging Gardens were a temple complex surrounded by walls. It was built between 800 and 600 BC. Apart from the ziggurat, it contained 7 temples for Marduk, Ishtar, etc. In the wall, there were gates. The Ishtar Gate still stands today:
http://www.zyworld.com/assyrian/Ishtar%20Gate.htm

It's true that there were already ziggurats in Mesopotamia under Nimrod around 3000 BC, but not in the city of Babel, which didn't exist yet.

[mahud]

there is an interesting parallel to be found in African myth. The version that comes to mind concerns an old woman who accidentally strikes the high god on his foot with her pestal, causing him to retreat back into the heavens ,separating the link between heaven and earth forever.

The old woman gathers her children about her, and together, they build a high tower contructed entirely of pestles (ironically the very thing that severed heaven from earth in the first place).

The tower was almost complete. All that was needed was a single pestle to reach the gates of heaven, but not a single pestle remained in the whole land. all had been used up, and so the tower remained incomplete.

Then the old woman had a bright idea, and ordered the the bottom pestle be removed so it could be placed on the top, and of course, the towers collapsed, proving once and for all that mankind, is incapable of ever reaching heaven.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by mahud

there is an interesting parallel to be found in African myth. The version that comes to mind concerns an old woman who accidentally strikes the high god on his foot with her pestal, causing him to retreat back into the heavens ,separating the link between heaven and earth forever.

The old woman gathers her children about her, and together, they build a high tower contructed entirely of pestles (ironically the very thing that severed heaven from earth in the first place).

The tower was almost complete. All that was needed was a single pestle to reach the gates of heaven, but not a single pestle remained in the whole land. all had been used up, and so the tower remained incomplete.

Then the old woman had a bright idea, and ordered the the bottom pestle be removed so it could be placed on the top, and of course, the towers collapsed, proving once and for all that mankind, is incapable of ever reaching heaven.

Wow, that is the coolest version I've heard in a long time (and the most unique).

Thanks for sharing.

v/r

Q

[mee]

Wrote Josephus: "[Nimrod] little by little transformed the state of affairs into a tyranny, holding that the only way to detach men from the fear of God was by making them continuously dependent upon his own power. He threatened to have his revenge on God if He wished to inundate the earth again; for he would build a tower higher than the water could reach and avenge the destruction of their forefathers. The people were eager to follow this advice of [Nimrod], deeming it slavery to submit to God; so they set out to build the tower . . . and it rose with a speed beyond all expectation."—Jewish Antiquities, I, 114, 115 (iv, 2, 3)...............so it seems that the tower was build in deviance of God , nimrod thought he knew better than God

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by mee

Wrote Josephus: "[Nimrod] little by little transformed the state of affairs into a tyranny, holding that the only way to detach men from the fear of God was by making them continuously dependent upon his own power. He threatened to have his revenge on God if He wished to inundate the earth again; for he would build a tower higher than the water could reach and avenge the destruction of their forefathers. The people were eager to follow this advice of [Nimrod], deeming it slavery to submit to God; so they set out to build the tower . . . and it rose with a speed beyond all expectation."—Jewish Antiquities, I, 114, 115 (iv, 2, 3)...............so it seems that the tower was build in deviance of God , nimrod thought he knew better than God

The ultimate defeat snatched from the jaws of victory. The allusion is that man is once again of the mind that it is becoming enslaved by the God concept (today). Governments attempt to coerce the people into thinking God is the enemy. And the people used to the luxuries of personal rights, are falling right in step with what the goverments are saying. The "tower" being built then would you say, is a tower of defiance?

Ironic that God scattered the peoples of earth by confounding their language, a long time ago, and today, man is re-consolidating language into one "official version" for communications, commerce, international dialogue...and that language appears to be a combination of mathematics and...English.

It is quite obvious that some in governemt (uncluding the UN), and I emphasize "some" consider God to be irrelevant.

For those who profess a belief in any form of supreme diety/dieties, this should be a dire warning (in my opinion). These anti-God personas, intend to strip us all of our God (s), and replace it with the state's view of things.

I did not think it possible, until they began going after the chaplains of the military (the most regimented, disciplined, faithful of the very people they serve). But right before our eyes within the last few weeks, the chaplains have come under intense fire.

Break the moral back of the military...and what is left to stop the godless?

v/r

Q

[mee]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

It is quite obvious that some in governemt (uncluding the UN), and I emphasize "some" consider God to be irrelevant.



Break the moral back of the military...and what is left to stop the godless?

v/r

Q

Yes you are right, some in goverment today are going that way but as christians will be aware this is all part of bible prophecy so it will happen ,and rather than the UN being (uncluded) i would say that bible prophecy would seem to go in the direction of the UN being (included) in this , and guess what it is God who will put it into the hearts of these to do this, i wonder why? must be a good reason for it dont you think? still no worries
Hence, beloved ones, since YOU are awaiting these things, do YOUR utmost to be found finally by him spotless and unblemished and in ( PEACE ) 2 PETER 3;14


For, according to their wish, this fact escapes their notice, that there were heavens from of old and an earth standing compactly out of water and in the midst of water by the word of God; and by those [means] the world of that time suffered destruction when it was deluged with water. But by the same word the heavens and the earth that are now are stored up for fire and are being reserved to the day of JUDGEMENT and of destruction of the UNGODLY MEN...2 PETER 3;5-7 so i would say what is important for true christians is to remain spotless and in peace because then we are not included inamongst the ungodly. ok , back to the tower, seems that those who decide to do things opposite to God have the wrong attitude and think they can out wit God but that is never a good place to put one self best to do it Gods way

[Quahom1]

My bad, I meant "including the UN" and especially the UN...

v/r

Q

[mee]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

My bad, I meant "including the UN" and especially the UN...

v/r

Q

yes , its all part of bible prophecy so as the bible says ,keep on the watch
Therefore, when YOU catch sight of the disgusting thing that causes desolation, as spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in a holy place, (let the reader use discernment,.............matthew 24;15

[Alvis Rofhessa]

I see a picture in the Titanic.
There is a book just out corresponding Babel with New World Order see

Babel may not mean division of languages but mixing up.
Language could even be connected with DNA?

It is true that occultists say "language" = religion/occult/force, but the story is not just an operative fiction. Religion/Bible/Occult is about Holism which means it inlcudes science/history/etc. Holists would need/want to have a true picture of history. A true story is better than a fictional one.

Re Chinese not able to be shown from Proto-Human: Some scholars have evidence that it can be/is, incld my own research eg Yao winds god = Vayu winds god, Fei Lien winds god ~ En-lil wind god, Di ~ Zeus?, Ti-mu = Sumer Zimu-um earth goddess, etc.

Babel was sometime between Noah and Abraham and so may have been before Peleg. Tradition says shortly/immediately after flood. Arab says Hud was Heber (tho I thought he might be Arphaxad).

Do you have a reference or specific culture/people/language for that African version?

Here are many versions I have found from my free web site (see profile):

Judaeo-Xtian/Biblical versions: Tower of Babel up to Heaven built by Nimrod a mighty hunter or Cush shortly after flood, tongues confused; Lucifer said I will ascend to heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God, I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; Image/(golden head) Dan 2; Image Dan 3; Image Rev 13 (Acknowl: T Jantsang):

->Greek versions: Aloeidae gigantes Ephialtes & Otus stack Mt Pelion on Mt Ossa in order to climb to heavens. (Ref: C Cook/Pears.)
->Maori version: Whare (house) in middle of fishe's back.
->Celtic version: druid Bresal builds tower? (Ref: Brennan.)
->Iranian version: Cai Caous reared a city & palace of grt splendor, garisoned by genii, endeavoured to take heaven by escalade, destroyed by angel of god; builds palaces on Mt Elbruz, pride, his ambition is to conquer the sky. Ecbatana. (Ref: G Massey, Larousse, Herodotus.)
->Tanzanian version: An ancient king built a tower of Iron into the heavens, tumbled down - "rust". (Acknowl: P Schmidt/Miami Herald/Jack Wheat.)
->Samoan version: A man set himself to build a hse of grt stones, to last forever, but he couldn't get it finished the sun went rnd so fast, at last the "Itu or Atua" caused creeper to grow, with this the man made noose caught sun, then he built the house. (Ref: G Massey.)
->Arab version: Sheddad ben Ad a mighty man builds Urem/city of pillars, destroyed by 2nd flood. (Ref: Brugsh-Bey, Cavendish, Acknowl: T Jantsang, Sadowsky, S Deyo/R Schmidt.)
->Chinese versions: Hoangti builds observatory. Chihyu aspired to position of Shangti/lord of high, corrupted humans to support his rebelion, lord established a barrier between Heaven & Earth. In middle or on edge of lake someone - "Yu most certainly" - built a tower. (Acknowl: Stds Digest, Ref: EHJ Steed, Larousse.)
->Phoenician version: Baal builds palace after defeating Yamm. (Ref: Larousse.)
->Indian version: a grt tree grew upto heaven, angering Brahma, who cut off its branches and threw them down. From each branch grew a sep wata tree that gave humanity another sep lang. (Ref: B Walker.)
->Hindu: Tower of Shambhala (valley)/men built a fortress, then a city on white island in the Gobi sea.
->Sumerian versions: Etana. "In those days the land Shubur (East), the place of plenty, of righteous decrees, Harmony-tongued Sumer (South), the great land of the "decrees of princeship," Uri (North), the land having all that is needful, The land Martu (West), resting in security, The whole universe, the people in unison, To Enlil in one tongue gave praise." (Acknowl: "Sharrukin".)
->Sumerian Version: Ziggurats built to bring gods of heaven down. (Acknowl: Scorpion/M Walker/J Campbell.)
->Babylonian version (Nebuchadnezzar): Birs-Nimrud Ziggurat of Nebo (god of writing) at Borsippa (tongue tower) near Babylon built by a former king 42 ages before Nebuchadnezar, etc. Hanging Gardens. Melted ziggurat bricks poss contemp with fused glass floor at bottom of shafts. (Ref: G Jeffries/eys, Readers Digest.)
->Hittite version: Ullikummi, let him ascend to heaven, tall as the sky, comparable with Atlas, like a tower. (Ref: Lehman, Larousse.)
->Fairy tale version: Jack and the bean stalk.
->Sci Fi version: Star Gate, 7/8 chevrons. (Acknowl: TV, Up Hutt scifi club.)
->Sth Amer vers: The Chamacoco tried to climb into the sky up a huge tree. Manco Capac built Cusco temple. Viracocha created nations and assigned languages. (Refs: Pears, Z Sitchin.)
->Mesoamerican versions: Votan builds tower after flood. Giant Xelhua builds huge tower designed to reach sky after flood. Family of giants near Puebla built pyramid, height almost 180 feet, presumption offended gods who sent fire from heaven on pyramid. (Ref: Fitzgerald-Lee, RA Anderson, P Kolosimo.)
->[British Columbia?] version: [flimsy structure to sky people?] (Ref: Mysteries book.)
->Nth Amer: "The beasts who up to this time had spoken but one language, could no longer understand each other, and in confusion fled away ...." (Ref: L Spence.)
->Roman: Janicula/Janiculum & Saturnia 2 cities on either side of the flood (Enoch & Babel).

[Alvis Rofhessa]

Ops I forgot to put in details of that book (quote self: " There is a book just out corresponding Babel with New World Order see ") and there dosen't seem to be an edit post option.
Book called: "OCCULT ORIGINS OF THE NEW WORLD ORDER" details at address/site: (New Right NZ, geocities) has to wait until after 10 posts to be allowed to post it.

[China Cat Sunflower]

I sorta think of the Tower of Babel story as illustration of the folly of trying to construct systems of logic that encompass absolutely everything. The people were trying to construct a tower (system) of bricks (logical structures) to reach to the heavens. But in the end they got lost in semantics (confused language) and the whole thing collapsed.

Chris

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

I sorta think of the Tower of Babel story as illustration of the folly of trying to construct systems of logic that encompass absolutely everything. The people were trying to construct a tower (system) of bricks (logical structures) to reach to the heavens. But in the end they got lost in semantics (confused language) and the whole thing collapsed.

Chris

But for the cryptic message from God...left to his own devices, man could accomplish anything he set his mind to...?