What's happened to Islam?

[wil]

Namaste Friend,

Again, my heart goes out to all involved in this conflict. But I am confused as to how you think this will help it stop.

Yes I've seen that when it circulated on the web years ago. Horrendous, although again, I'm afraid I don't know the whole story.

But again, I must ask, what purpose does it serve your posting it here. What is your goal.

My goal is to decrease separation, increase discussion that will lead to peace. I don't see how this assists. Do you not believe the other side could show a bomber entering a bus, or a crowded cafe and incite attitudes as well?? What does either of this prove?

You say you are sorry for posting such graphic images, me too. But you must have felt that posting will get you closer to your goal...please tell us what that might be.

[Friend]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

What's happened to Islam, when it becomes regarded as acceptable to Muslim women and children?

I know - the extremism happening in Iraq, Pakistan, Afghanistan - isn't typical of Islam, is seeded in US foreign policy, and have national political dimensions.

But at some point, these people being trained to carry out suicide bombings are being (apparently) told that their targets are not proper Muslims, and therefore it is acceptable to kill them.

And while we hear the Arab world condemning such bombings, we also see ugly political machinations - Iran wants to support the Iraqi Shi'as, Saudi Arabia wants to support the Sunni's.

We have a fracturing of the entire Middle East between Sunni and Shi'a Islam - previously at relative peace - and the extremists are blowing open the cracks where they can, inspiring even British Muslims to turn against any apparatus of a perceived enemy.

I dunno - I'm gobsmacked - when did any interpretation of Islam make it acceptable to kill women and children?

will,,,

turn back to the original purpose of this thread

All my post here Just to search and find the answer of the Q,,((What's happened to Islam?))

I'm Just want to clarify the reasons,,,Why some Muslims have this tendency to violence??
At any conditions ...Killed the innocents people is not raison d'etre...Islam call us to save the souls of all innocents people...but give us the permit to defence against any one try to harm us.
and maybe some Muslems see how America and west countries came to Arab and Islamic lands and try to control it and change their life...may be the believe that resistance the American invading is a form of self defence...and the way of resistance different from a school of thoughts to another ..between Muslim's people .


this is my answer .

Peace to all

[Abdullah]

Originally Posted by wil

Namaste Friend,

Again, my heart goes out to all involved in this conflict. But I am confused as to how you think this will help it stop.

Yes I've seen that when it circulated on the web years ago. Horrendous, although again, I'm afraid I don't know the whole story.

But again, I must ask, what purpose does it serve your posting it here. What is your goal.

My goal is to decrease separation, increase discussion that will lead to peace. I don't see how this assists. Do you not believe the other side could show a bomber entering a bus, or a crowded cafe and incite attitudes as well?? What does either of this prove?

You say you are sorry for posting such graphic images, me too. But you must have felt that posting will get you closer to your goal...please tell us what that might be.

Hi Wil

First accept my thanks for your enthusiasm to want to decrease the violence; MashAllah; that is a praiseworthy goal which all mankind shoud aim for.

Secondly bro., I think you are misunderstanding sister Friends motivation for her photos.

In the context that it was posted; i.e, to refute the claim that there were only terrorists amongst Muslims and all other communities were terrorist free, it should be obvious to all that it was to show that all communities have their terrorists and not just the Muslims.

Truth and falsehood are a two way sword infact, and what i mean is that, making false claims and both truth can give rise to incitement for the extremists; let me explain further inshAllah:

Bob said that terrorists exist only in the Muslim culture and all other cultures are terrorist free, now this was obviously a false statement, and it could incite people to hate Islam and muslims, thinking that we have such a culture and religion, that only we produce terrorists, and we know that hate can lead to malice and violence; the BNP are allready trying to incite another Bosnia in Britian, based on claims such as "Islam is a vicious faith" etc, and this is an example of how false claims can give rise to hate, malice, enmity and violence.

So it is only natural that we should counter such falsehood with the truth, and show people that were not a culture that exclusively produces terrorists, and that all other major communites do so too, so I pointed out that, although there may not be as much 'non-governmental' terrorists amongst the Jewish and Christian community, but there is a hell of a lot of state terrorism amongst them.

And this kind of balancing out the truth, creates peace, in that people can see that the general forms of evil, including terrorism, is not exclusive to the Muslim commnity and that were at least a 'normal' [if not better in their eyes] community, just like the rest. [with the warts and all that is]

But my pointing out of state terrorism amongst the Christian and Jews just got dismissed by bananabrain

So what is needed next if mere claims get dismissed without a second thought and people refuse to accept that terrorists exists in all communites and not just the Muslim one?

PROOF!...thus my sis came in with the hard evidence; well done sis [thumbs up!; there needs to be a thumbs up smilie on this board! ]

Now ofcourse the extremists could get incited to hate by the proof of truth, but the extremists on the other side could get incited to hate by the falsehood, if it is not countered; this is what is meant by, both truth and falsehood are a two edged sword [for some].

And what does that show?; it shows that there allways will be extremists on iether side...no matter what we do, but for the general peacefull public, we must continue to endevour to make peace between us, by countering the false propaganda and lies, to show that no community is inherently evil and that evil exists in all communites, and we should acknowledge this fact in order to 'normalise' ourselves [as a community as a whole] in each others eyes, and thus we can learn not to hate and get along peacefully together inshAllah!.

Also, there is another reason to put the truth out there, although it may not be nice and pleasant to hear and view, and that is that action has to be taken to stop terrorism on both sides, for the wanton killing on both sides have to stop and if one side dont even acknowledge that terrorism is happening in/from their community, then how are they supposed to try put a stop to it?; so it is on us to expose the evils that are happening so the humanatarians of this world can take action to try and put a stop to it.

InshAllah I will be commenting on them pictures in my next post.

Salaam, and together we shall all strive to decrease the violence and hate, and bring peace, understanding and love between all mankind, inshAllah!

ps: lets just bring in the hindus here quickly, for they are a major religious community too, and it wouldn't be fare to mention specifically the Jewish and Christian communties terrorism, without mentioning at least another communites terrorism too [i dont want to sound to be singling out the two former communities]:

Well we all know about how they sometimes go into a frenzy and massacre the Muslim civillians, and how they have, and are still? commiting atrocities in Kashmir, and how even the last major frenzied massacre of muslims was supported by and directed by the hindu government; not forgetting to mention the occasional terrorist bombs that go off in Mosques in India too ...]; No generalisation meant!

[Abdullah]

Regarding them pictures; well the whole thing seems kind of fishy; if he had an explosive belt on, then how comes three or four men have him stripped to his underpant [at which point they would have seen any explosive belt on him], are just holding him down and not quickly moving out the way?

And suicide belts usually tear the whole body apart and if we should assume it was the belt that blew that mans brains out?, then hey, that must have been the first suicide belt that has an impact like the shot of a gun!

And a belt around the neck would be absolutely ludricous, for it will be too exposed!

And we all know how pictures can be manipulated these days to add things that were'nt originally there.

Well anyway, lets just say that from the set of pics, including the supposed 'counter propaganda one', we cannot be sure what really happened there, as it does give rise to some doubt, but the rest of the pics in the links speaks for itself, and even without all these pics, it is well known that the zionists have been commiting terrorist attrocities in the west bank and Gaza for years at least, almost on a daily basis...

Peace to all

[bob x]

Muhammad al-Durah was shot from the Palestinian side.

[wil]

It is ridiculous to consider that only Muslims are terrorists or only Muslims harbor terrorists... I live in a country that was founded on terrorists, since we won the war we now get to call them freedom fighters, patriots, our fore fathers...If England had won, they would have all been hanged for treason and terrorism. The definition of terrorists always depends on whose side of the line you are on. These are not just my opinions, everyone that decides to visit Philadelphia, the Liberty Bell, and Independence Hall will see movies that the US Gov't and Park Service has produced that discusses this, and the tour guides will gladly explain the same to you...the winners write history.

Originally Posted by Abdullah

And we all know how pictures can be manipulated these days to add things that were'nt originally there.

Yes we do all know that pictures can be manipulated...no matter which sequence we are seeing! And I've been wondering since I've seen them, what the two white lines are in one of the photos but in no other...

What does need to occur is an investigation as to exactly what happened, investigate all the photos and if the hundreds of arabic sites are perpetuating a falsehood.

Originally Posted by bob x

Muhammad al-Durah was shot from the Palestinian side.

If you have proof of this, it would be beneficial to discussion.

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by bob x

Muhammad al-Durah was shot from the Palestinian side.

I think we need to look at the word in bold. There are 'sides', if your son is lying on the floor with his brains pouring out does it matter which side the bullet came from? Should we not be working, really damned hard, to bring those sides together, to find a middle ground agrement where people can live without fear, rather than supply one side or the other with more bullets?

Originally Posted by wil

What does need to occur is an investigation as to exactly what happened, investigate all the photos and if the hundreds of arabic sites are perpetuating a falsehood.

Apparently there are 11 photos in total Wil but I wasn't able to find a single site that showed all of them, even sites that supported the shooting. My question is, the boy was clearly subdued, even if we assume he had an explosive belt and this was removed from his body (which we can see in the picture you provided it was) then why was he not arrested and tried for terrorist activities, rather than executed?

And I would like to support Friends posting of the pictures, I do not think it was in any way to accuse anyone but it does demonstrate why these young people feel angry and decide to fight. Both 'sides' can show such pictures, I know but the thread is about why some Muslims are doing these terrible things and Friend has a good point, these photos would encourage people to 'fight the oppressors'.

[Cyris Ali]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

What's happened to Islam, when it becomes regarded as acceptable to Muslim women and children?

I know - the extremism happening in Iraq, Pakistan, Afghanistan - isn't typical of Islam, is seeded in US foreign policy, and have national political dimensions.

But at some point, these people being trained to carry out suicide bombings are being (apparently) told that their targets are not proper Muslims, and therefore it is acceptable to kill them.

And while we hear the Arab world condemning such bombings, we also see ugly political machinations - Iran wants to support the Iraqi Shi'as, Saudi Arabia wants to support the Sunni's.

We have a fracturing of the entire Middle East between Sunni and Shi'a Islam - previously at relative peace - and the extremists are blowing open the cracks where they can, inspiring even British Muslims to turn against any apparatus of a perceived enemy.

I dunno - I'm gobsmacked - when did any interpretation of Islam make it acceptable to kill women and children?

I suppose it's kind of like asking what has happened to Christianity in light of circumstances like Waco, Texas and Jonestown etc.

Unfortunately it's the scandals which make the news.

To the best of my knowledge... Islam was founded by and/or with the help of Hanif Sabians who were likened to the Alevi or even Yezedi. The shahada... la illaha illallah (there is no god but god) ......was a Sabian affirmation. They accepted the prophets of their day and even followed but... if by one's own reasoning and discretion, they followed a path of righteousness.... it didn't matter what religion one clinged to.

(Sabians are mentioned several times in the Quran, along with Jews and Christians as "people of the book" and considered Mohammed and his companions, in fact, to be Sabians themselves.)

It is no secret... only shadowed in the obscurity of oral traditions that are a most concrete element of bedouin culture.

[Cyris Ali]

Originally Posted by Cyris Ali

It is no secret... only shadowed in the obscurity of oral traditions that are a most concrete element of bedouin culture.

This is the word most commonly translated as "believer" in the Quran...

Beautiful Names of Allah: al-Mu'min 6

It is also a name of God.


Wasalaam.

(And Peace.)

[bob x]

I live in a country that was founded on terrorists

No, nobody in America murdered British schoolchildren or anything comparable, as the Palestinians do.

Muhammad al-Durah was shot from the Palestinian side.
If you have proof of this, it would be beneficial to discussion

I would have to hunt back years for the analyses on that, but the angles at which the bullets entered the wall were inconsistent with the shots coming from the Israelis; if you can find the video it is evident that the concrete drum is between the Durahs and the Israelis, while the Palestinians are shooting from behind the cameraman.

There are 'sides', if your son is lying on the floor with his brains pouring out does it matter which side the bullet came from?

If you are going to go out shouting for "revenge".

[wil]

Originally Posted by bob x

No, nobody in America murdered British schoolchildren or anything comparable, as the Palestinians do.

First there is blood of children on both sides of that fence, we know that. Second we Americans have been blessed to control most history and the press. However every one of our wars has been laced with rogue soldiers out of control...Surely you can remember the recent ones in Iraq, which went higher than those charged, and Vietnam's massacre...it goes on and on...

Atrocities are a fact of all wars, even ours / It's not just evil empires whose soldiers go amok
Papers of George Washington
Mel Gibson's latest hero: a rapist who hunted Indians for fun | News | Guardian Unlimited Film
Guest Comment

Can't believe everything we see in the movies and history books...

[Friend]

Hi all


I think we want here to search about the problems ,,,so we can imagine ..(Where is the solutions ?)

[wil]

Originally Posted by Friend

..(Where is the solutions ?)

Seek first to understand, then to be understood.

If we'd explore each others history, honor each others beliefs, seek peaceful solutions (ie, we've got to give if we expect to get) I think we'd all develop new thinking.

[zeras]

Asalaamulikum,

sorry, I saw the post the day, after, but I have had
troubles with loggin into the the forums, I contacted
and had to get my cookies fixed and now here I am
Very true, I totally agree with you.
Oh, my home country is Bangladesh, I was raised and live in the US.


Salaamulikum
(peace be upon you)

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

wa aleykum salaam wr wb wa ramadan kareem

Absolutely wonderful video's and alhamdolillah they are aimed at the young, these videos are an honest look at the history and political (non religious) struggles in the early days of Islam. They also demonstrate how Islam is used by people with political intent but are not acting as Muslims. I hope many peole will take the time to watch these video's. This is exactly the sort of information we should be providing for our young. Thank you so much for sharing them with us zeras



Agreed completely. You have provided some wonderful links zeras and I thank you. I have learnt much from them and hope that others do too.



May I ask where your home country is?

I think one problem for non Muslims looking in zeras, is that they see Muslims reading the Quran and shouting AllahuAkbar and then killing people. It is very difficult to explain that these people have strayed from the teaching of Islam and have been taught a distorted interpretation. We know that this is not allowed in Islam but what non Muslims find difficult to understand is why the Muslims that are killing do not know this. I think this is what people are trying to understand, because some Muslims are saying it is haram and others are saying it is an Islamic duty. They can only find out the truth by reading the Quran with an open heart.



This video makes an excellent point, yes Muslims must condemn the 7/7 & 9/11 attrocities but we MUST also condemn the attrocities happening against Muslims in Afghanistan, Iraq, etc. Non Muslims should also condemn these attrocities, all of them.



Sah (you are correct). I am going to study now.

Salaam

[Abdullah]

The governments and think tanks of the West know the solution, but the truth of the matter is that they are, unfortunately, willing to sacrifice some of their soldiers and civillians for what they consider to be the greater benifit, which is, more money for the corporates.

The phrases "we can't stop every single terorrist act", and "we have to be lucky all the time and they have to be lucky just once", and "it's only a matter of time before an attack gets through", are common amongst the politicians and police when they talk about terrorism, and this shows that they know that their current policy of turning a blind eye to the root causes of terrorism and just pushing on with their corporate domination plan will inevitably get some of their innocents killed, but their 'agenda' is more important then these innocents/civillians and soldiers that will die.

The root causes are obvious to all; if you opress a people of a particular faith, and the adherants of that faith happens to be 1.8 billion in number, then it is utterly naive to think that out of all these people, there wouldn't be at least a tiny minority that lashes back in the wrong way, i.e, by commiting terrorist attrocities, so all these western politicans, think tanks, etc, know that in order to stop their civillians and soldiers getting killed, they have to stop the opression, and they certainly dont want to do that...so that is why they give us a bogus story that "it's because they want to destroy our way of life, and they want to turn the world into a Caliphate state, that is why they are hitting out at us, and their not hitting out at us because were killing their civillians and invading their lands and plundering their resources".

Now enough of pointing out the obvious, and lets talk about solutions.

I think the best way to go about ending this vicous circle of violence is to rouse the British and American Public en-masse, into protesting against their governments to stop telling us baloneys and to stop their opressive actions so that the muslim extremists are starved from the fuel that feeds and motivates them; they should not only protest and demand of their governments to stop the opression so that they themselves stop getting hit, but they should do it out of a sense of humanity and justice too.

So lets get active peeps, lets all join up with the anti war movement and help them in their quest to eradicate wars from this world.

Here is their website:

Stop the War Coalition Online

Peace to all.

ps: this is not to say that terrorism should be combatted only on the western front, i.e, by demanding the west stops the oprression, but it should also be tackled on the muslim side, and we are AlHamdullillah, engaged in dawah [call to righteousness] in calling the muslim extremists to stop their unIslamic and barbaric acts that will no doubt, lead them to the hell-fire...