What Makes Jesus The Son Of God?-The Son Of God Theory.

[n4h1z]

Peace to Bandit....

Thanx for your respond & comment. I appreciate it. So what is it that makes this doctrine so complex in christianity? Could you just give me a brief preview/ xplanation regarding it... in a way that is suitable to a laymen like me...
I think i'am not qualified to take Bible studies yet since I have not even finished the Quran myself... Maybe just a few selection of Biblical subject. I think it is better to do it one-by-one...God willing one day I will...afterall these are the books authored by God....and i wouldn't want to fail my "Core subject"...

and because i believe something different than anyone has ever heard before...so that becomes a chore in itself.

Do you mean you have different views on the Trinity doctrine?...Please check out my post on the concept of Trinity here, maybe you could help ---> http://www.comparative-religion.com/...9803#post49803

Peace...

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by n4h1z

Peace to Bandit....

Thanx for your respond & comment. I appreciate it. So what is it that makes this doctrine so complex in christianity? Could you just give me a brief preview/ xplanation regarding it... in a way that is suitable to a laymen like me...
I think i'am not qualified to take Bible studies yet since I have not even finished the Quran myself... Maybe just a few selection of Biblical subject. I think it is better to do it one-by-one...God willing one day I will...afterall these are the books authored by God....and i wouldn't want to fail my "Core subject"...



Do you mean you have different views on the Trinity doctrine?...Please check out my post on the concept of Trinity here, maybe you could help ---> http://www.comparative-religion.com/...9803#post49803

Peace...

i just dont have an interest in trying to change what others believe. i read your other post. i believe in the name of the father & of the son & of the holy ghost. how someone chooses to put that together has no impact on someones salvation as far as i am concerned & it disturbs me when i see that happen over arguing, so i do not discuss it in depth especially with a bunch of people at once.
i see a father & a son. i do not see a third person in this. for me, the Holy Ghost is the same thing as the Father.

i understand what others believe but what i believe is not easy to see either & it usually goes unacknowledged & that is fine by me & i dont tell what i believe until i know someone is on the brink of it for themselves. hope you understand that.

sorry, but there is no simple, brief, preview on it . it is perpetual.
however, once in awhile i can spot when someone is searching for a little more & i think you are just as qualified to study the bible just as anyone else is...so hold onto what you got & God will guide you into all truth my brother if you keep the right approach & a honest heart & watch those prepositions carefully.

Notice that there is a phrase "I in them". The word "them" is referred to the disciples of Jesus and "I" refers God. So the the word "I" and the word "them" means that God is with the disciples. If you believe in the unison of The Father and Jesus, you also ought believe the unison of The Father with all the 12 disciples. So it's not only Jesus and the Holy Spirit is one with The Father but also the 12 disciples...not just 3 in 1 but 15 in 1. Based on this contradiction which is the correct one, 3 becomes 1 or 15 becomes 1.
John 14:9 & 10 seems to match each other...but John 17:23 is a bit different

i think you are right on the money with this & what we are looking at is 11 other disciples who are also ONE with Jesus & the Father & we can be one with the Father, just like Jesus is...so that makes a lot of people into one.

[n4h1z]

Peace to Bandit...

how someone chooses to put that together has no impact on someones salvation as far as i am concerned & it disturbs me when i see that happen over arguing, so i do not discuss it in depth especially with a bunch of people at once.

I know how hard it is to have a decent dialogue especially in an evironment like this. But it could be done unless everybody abide to the rules and have respect each other's opinion. Anyway...i respect your standpoint.

i see a father & a son. i do not see a third person in this. for me, the Holy Ghost is the same thing as the Father.

So why is the tri- ...i hope i'am not being irksome to you. If you prefer not to respond, it'll be allright and i still respect your stance...

i think you are right on the money with this & what we are looking at is 11 other disciples who are also ONE with Jesus & the Father & we can be one with the Father, just like Jesus is...so that makes a lot of people into one

11?...can you give me more details.
So can it be concluded as the axis of God ?

peace...

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by n4h1z

Peace to Bandit...



I know how hard it is to have a decent dialogue especially in an evironment like this. But it could be done unless everybody abide to the rules and have respect each other's opinion. Anyway...i respect your standpoint.


So why is the tri- ...i hope i'am not being irksome to you. If you prefer not to respond, it'll be allright and i still respect your stance...

i respect your belief & opinion also, n4h1z
i dont think the trinity doctrine is difficult, it just does not make sense to me all the way through. it is a doctrine that some people choose to believe. i believe God is one spirit & not three spirits & Jesus is a man with the spirit of a man & not God turning into a man. so what i see is ONE God & ONE man becoming one, thus Jesus being the fulness of the godhead bodily & God manifested in the flesh the Son of God.
did you ever think of it that way before?

there are mysteries that some people just do not see or they see it different & when people realize that, as you do, then it is possible for two people to speak & reason with one another.

Originally Posted by n4h1z

11?...can you give me more details.
So can it be concluded as the axis of God ?

peace...

there were eleven at that point in time that Jesus made this intercessory prayer for, because Judas had already betrayed Jesus & was no longer a part of the twelve & he was not with them as a team any more.
John17:12While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
Judas was not replaced as the 12th until the day of pentecost.

Acts1:26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

hope that helps a little.
i am not sure what you mean by the 'axis' of God, so what does that mean?

[n4h1z]

Peace to Bandit...

it is a doctrine that some people choose to believe. i believe God is one spirit & not three spirits & Jesus is a man with the spirit of a man & not God turning into a man. so what i see is ONE God & ONE man becoming one, thus Jesus being the fulness of the godhead bodily & God manifested in the flesh the Son of God.
did you ever think of it that way before?

Yes i suppose i did. But the common perception on the trinity is that the Father,the son and the holy ghost is 3 beings in 1 and 1 being in 3 forms.
So you're saying that the Father - son relationship is like Master - servant relationship, not beget - begotten as in Abraham - Isaac kind of relationship.

i am not sure what you mean by the 'axis' of God, so what does that mean?

It can be considered like this...

Human: We don't live on white mans' side, we don't live black mans' side....we live on God side

I heard this phrase a few years back on an album by soulfly

Peace...

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by n4h1z

Peace to Bandit...



Yes i suppose i did. But the common perception on the trinity is that the Father,the son and the holy ghost is 3 beings in 1 and 1 being in 3 forms.
So you're saying that the Father - son relationship is like Master - servant relationship, not beget - begotten as in Abraham - Isaac kind of relationship.




It can be considered like this...

I heard this phrase a few years back on an album by soulfly

Peace...

yah. it goes something like that. there are several doctrines on it. sorry i dont have one to offer for what i believe.

now i see what you mean by axis & thanks

[Arizona]

Originally Posted by wil

to me this is very telling, he consciously set out to fulfill scriptures, not accidently, not divinely, it almost appears he had a list and insured he checked them off. Arranging to hold an ass at Lazurus' house I believe and having someone fetch it as he headed into town...

Hello Wil,

This is a little dated but I want to respond on this. Jesus was very maticulous in fulfilling the Law of Moses. It was necessary to do this to get them out from under their religous tyrant leaders. They were so bound to it unless it was fulfilled they would not have come out from Babylon. The Law of Moses illustrated an outward behavior of an inner nature. But all they knew was the outward behavior. What Father sent Jesus to do was abrogate the Law of Moses. In this He translated their law into an inward walk with Father. He brought Father the lover. The Law of Moses did not originate in Father in that outward formality of worship, Father just used it to abrogate it later. But even better put those who mimick only use His laws anyway but turn them upside down in meaning. He made sacrifice and blood legal but blood and sacrifice existed in the world long before Moses. The bible speaks of this quite a bit. That blood and sacrifice never pleased Him. What I mean by this is that even though they got the commandment for it it was because this religous practice was already in the world. It first came from man and I think the Nephilim. Not Father initially. Father just used it agaisnt them for their Liberty. This is why Jesus was strict to fulfill the Law of Moses and the Prophets. It was in order to translate the outward law into the inner law that pleased God and His nature. I will add also that I have been shown that there were nations here and peoples during the time of Adam and Eve. What made Adam and Eve the first is that from the nations and peoples He took one out, Adam, and formed Him out of the clay, the peoples of the world, and set Him aside. Adam was the first in this saga perhaps to be formed up into the image and likness of Father, or, perhaps it was in the image of the Gods of the Nephilim and the serpant was really the provision. But anyway, nonetheless, I have been shown that there were nations here and peoples before Adam.

Edited to add: Father will use our laws against ourselves for Liberty and that is what Jesus did pertaining to the Law of Moses. He was also the provision for the flesh to be spiritually activated.

[InChristAlways]

Hello Wil,
This is a little dated but I want to respond on this. Jesus was very maticulous in fulfilling the Law of Moses. It was necessary to do this to get them out from under their religous tyrant leaders. They were so bound to it unless it was fulfilled they would not have come out from Babylon. The Law of Moses illustrated an outward behavior of an inner nature. But all they knew was the outward behavior. What Father sent Jesus to do was abrogate the Law of Moses.

Great post Arizona. There is an interesting word used in Luke 2, 'Resurrection', as Jesus came, "symbolically, "into a country[world] that was a living "graveyard" with no hope after death.

In fact Isaiah 28 attest to this "graveyard" by saying the rulers in Jerusalem had made a "covenant with Death", and only after the "precious stone" was layed, could that covenant be "annulled".
I have no idea how the jews view Isaiah 28/61 but all I can say is--- thank you Lord Jesus and God the Father.
Steve

Luke 2:22 And when the days of their purification were fulfilled, according tothe Law of Moses, they brought him up to Jerusalem, to present to the Lord,...... 34 and Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, `Lo, this [one] is set for the falling and rising again[#386 Resurrection] of many in Israel, and for a sign spoken against-- 35 (and also thine own soul shall a sword pass through) --that the reasonings of many hearts may be revealed.'

Revelation 2:18 `And to the messenger of the assembly of Thyatira write: These things saith the Son of God, who is having his eyes as a flame of fire, and his feet like to fine brass;

Isaiah 28:14 Therefore hear the word of the LORD, you scornful men, Who rule this people who [are] in Jerusalem, 15 Because you have said, "We have made a Covenant with Death, And with Sheol we are in agreement. When the overflowing scourge passes through, It will not come to us, For we have made lies our refuge, And under falsehood we have hidden ourselves." 16 Therefore thus says the Lord GOD: "Behold, I lay in Zion a stone for a foundation, A tried stone, a precious cornerstone, a sure foundation; Whoever believes will not act hastily. 17 Also I will make justice the measuring line, And righteousness the plummet; The hail will sweep away the refuge of lies, And the waters will overflow the hiding place. 18 Your Covenant with Death will be covered over/atoned, And your agreement with Sheol will not stand;

Isaiah 61:2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, And the Day of Vengeance of our God; To comfort all who mourn,