What is Zen? - Page 3

17th Angel · 11-09-2006, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vajradhara

namate all,

this is, perhaps, my favorite description of Zen...

If people ask me what Zen is like, I will say that it is like learning the art of burglary. The son of a burglar saw his father growing older and thought: "if he is unable to carry out his profession, who will be the breadwinner of this family? I must learn the trade." One night the father took the son to a big house, broke through the fence, entered the house, and opening one of the large chests, told the son to go in and pick out the clothing. As soon as he got into it, the lid was dropped and the lock securely applied. The father now came out to the courtyard, and loudly knocking at the door woke up the whole family, whereas he himself quietly slipped away. The residents got up and lighted candles, but found that the burglars had already gone. The whole time, the son remained in the chest, and thought of his cruel father. Then a fine idea flashed upon him. He made a noise like the gnawing of a rat. When the lid was unlocked, out came the prisoner and fled. Noticing a well by the road, he picked up a large stone and threw it into the water. The pursuers gathered around the well trying to find the burglar drowning himself. By then, he was safely back in the house with his father, whom he blamed for his narrow escape. When the son told him of his adventures, the father remarked, "There, you have learned the art!"

D.T. Suzuki

I... Liked that.

Francis king · 11-10-2006, 01:01 AM

zen, as we know, is a short form of the word zazen, zazen is the practise of meditation, the word zazen supposedly comes from the chinese word ch'an, and is supposedly a corruption of the sanskrit word dhyana, dhya- thinking, na, not, sometimes said to be what meditation, and zazen is... or so I thought... supposedly, again, or so I thought, bodhidharma was reputedly the "first buddhist" in china, although bodhidharma was a theravadin, in theory, and so perhaps although what we find in zen, pure zen, is buddhism, there are many influences within zen buddhism which are not buddhist, in much the same way as buddhism in Tibet is influenced by Bon and the Buddha himself was influenced by hinduism...

what is zen?... here's my answer...

Being whacked with big sticks.
The sacred Japonica.
White socks.
Shinto kings.
buddha mind.

Ciel · 11-10-2006, 01:23 AM

All things evolve...........
Buddha himself moved beyond influence.
Zen masters move beyond big sticks.

- c -

17th Angel · 11-10-2006, 12:02 PM

What is Zen?

This is Zen?..

There ain't no answer.
There ain't going to be an answer.
There never has been an answer.
That's the answer....... - Getrude Stein.

Loitering is Zen.
Eluding is Zen.
To stand ground, to flee.
The darkness the light.
Nothing, anything, anyone, everything.
Final request, first steps.
Undeinable Virtue...

- 17th.... lol How good or bad was that?

Ciel · 11-10-2006, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

What is Zen?

This is Zen?..

There ain't no answer.
There ain't going to be an answer.
There never has been an answer.
That's the answer....... - Getrude Stein.

Interesting 17th...... I remember reading that Gertrude Stein's final words were, 'What was the question?"

- c -

17th Angel · 11-10-2006, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ciel

Interesting 17th...... I remember reading that Gertrude Stein's final words were, 'What was the question?"

- c -

*chuckles*

Thats pretty cool.

17th Angel · 11-10-2006, 03:02 PM

Tariki · 11-11-2006, 10:08 AM

Yes, the story of the burglar teaching his "art" to his son is a good one. There is another shorter story which also points to the "meaning" and "nature" of Zen......

A Samurai goes to the Zen Master and asks:- "Teach me of heaven, teach me of hell"

The Zen Master spits in his eye.

The Samurai boils with rage at the insult, reaches for his sword and is about to run the Zen Master through the heart when the Master looks him in the eye and says:- "THAT is Hell"

The Samurai realises just what has been taught, and with a deep sense of gratitude re-sheaths his sword.

The Zen Master looks directly at him again and says:- "And THAT is heaven"

Frederick Franck, author of "The Zen of Seeing" has said that Zen is NOT:-

Mysticism
Calming the mind
Asceticism
A value system
An addition to Reality

I suppose in a sense it says that life is to be lived, not thought. That in fact it can only be lived and not thought!

Anyway, for those interested, I would recommend the essay "Mystics and Zen Masters" by Thomas Merton, from his book of essays published under the same title. He does ask the question "What is Zen" directly, and answers it in a way that accommodates itself to "Western" thinking............

Excerpts....."Like all forms of Buddhism, Zen seeks an 'enlightenment' which results from the resolution of all subject-object relationships in a pure void. But to call this void a mere negation is to reestablish the oppositions which are resolved in it."

"Zen is the ontological awareness of pure being beyond subject and object, an immediate grasp of being in its 'suchness' and 'thusness'"

Yet......."to suggest that it is 'an experience' which a 'subject' is capable of 'having' is to use terms that contradict the implications of Zen"

Anyway, enough! Hopefully no-one will now ask me for clarification of the terms used! I am merely passing on what I have read myself, hoping perhaps that it will help others.

Snoopy · 11-11-2006, 11:10 AM

Hi,

A zen story tells of a student who asked his master, "Please show me zen."
The master said, "I have to go relieve myself."
Upon returning, the master said, "Zen is like going to the bathroom. I cannot go for you. You have to go for yourself."

- Zen Guitar - Philip Toshio Sudo

s.

Ciel · 11-11-2006, 04:48 PM

Zen is painting white on white walls.......
Can't tell where what was ends,
And what is begins.........

Only every things white right now.
Only every things right white now.

- c -

Asanga · 12-23-2006, 03:43 PM

There are many answers to "what is Zen?" which range from the definition of Zen to its history. Originally the school of Zen was not about Zen at all, it was about Buddha mind. See what the Buddha saw was its maxim.

Blessings,

Asanga

Asanga · 03-11-2007, 05:28 AM

Just recently I came across this great Zen site. It reads more like Dzogchen and Mahamudra. It is worth a visit.

The Zennist

Asanga