What is Truth?!

[mee]

(Psalm 86:11) Instruct me, O Jehovah, about your way. I shall walk in your truth. Unify my heart to fear your name.........there is only one way to know truth and that is to be instructed by Jehovah

And as for you, O Daniel, make secret the words and seal up the book, until the time of [the] end. Many will rove about, and the [true] knowledge will become abundant..daniel 12;4

This is fine and acceptable in the sight of our Savior, God, whose will is that all sorts of men should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth..1 timothy 2;3-4........ just thought i would put another slant on truth

[Saltmeister]

Woa, this thread has really hit the sky!!!

I haven't read the messages in that great detail because there's been so many. Though, I've only really looked at the first few messages, I've skimmed the next eighty or so messages.

I'll try and make this simple. Here is the story of humanity and Christianity:

1. God creates Adam and Eve. They are originally purely good people without fault or blemish. Human nature is purely good.

2. Adam eats the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. Because Adam now has knowledge of evil, he is now capable of lying, selfishness, arrogance, hatred, greed, etc. Human nature is no longer purely good and is now a mixture of good and evil.

3. Adam and Eve are banished from the Garden of Eden. They spawn a whole race of human beings that are defective and struggle between the extremes of good and evil, light and darkness. Human beings are separated from God and no longer live under His glory and regenerating influence. Injustice and iniquity plague the human race.

4. God sends His Word down, who comes in the form of a human being named Jesus, the Second Adam whose human nature is purely good without fault or blemish.

5. Jesus, Lamb of God offers Himself as the atoning sacrifice, a cleansing ritual that opens a pathway to God's Kingdom, a path that ends in physical death but everlasting life thereafter. The curtain veiling the Holy of Holies in the Temple of Jerusalem is torn open.

From this we can say:

It is no longer necessary to follow rules and laws. What we need now is for the dark side of human nature to be conquered and vanquished. We do this by practicing our faith, hope and love.

We tend to think it's all about forgiveness of sin and legalism, but really that's pointness if human nature is still corrupt!!!! Human nature gives us the ability to sin again and again and again so the only way to achieve holiness is to get rid of it once and for all.

We live by faith, not by conformity to rules, regulations, institutions, dogma, doctrine or ideology. A person who has faith in God believes that God will give him something better than what he or she wants and does not need to sin.

We live by hope that one day evil and wickedness will no longer have any power over us. We will be perfectly immune from evil and corruption because we have God as our Source and we drink the water from the Tree of Life.

We live by love, seeking only the best out of people. In our pursuit to make other people happy we conquer the darkness, death and decay that threatens to destroy us all.

Finally, Christ Himself is the path of holiness. It is a path that leads us to the promise that God offered us all along -- the Promised Land -- God's Kingdom. Faith, hope and love are the things we practice every day to stay in this one and only path to hope and peace.

Originally Posted by I, Brian

For example, the idea that everyone is a worthless sinner - that sin is inherited - and that becoming Christian is a way to free yourself from sin is obviously at the heart of the "works vs faith" discussion - does simply accepting Jesus make someone sinless?

No, we do not become sinless. We are sinners in this life but if we die and have accepted Christ, we are born again in God's Kingdom.

We are instructed to follow Christ's path. Only when we reach our destination will we be free from the evil and darkness that infest this world. In the end we will be sinless but just not here and now . The perfection is deferred to another time and place.

Originally Posted by I, Brian

And if someone accepts Jesus but sins (and asks forgiveness) then isn't this worst - a form of "mafia faith", where people can criticise others for committing sin, but if a Christian sins then it's not so much of an issue? Or is that entirely a mis-perception?

A Christian should not criticise others (especially a non-Christian) for sinning because he is no different to everyone else. He is simply a person who follows Christ's path to holiness, hope, peace and happiness. Yes, you could say this is a mis-perception.

[wil]

Truth to me...

God is not created in our likeness.

Priests, Rabbis and Theologians eventually learn that Genesis is a good story, an analogy, a parable... at first it hurts.

God's 'word' the 66 books were accumulated from a few hundred spiritual texts by a group that decided to create the Universal (the latin name catholic) Church as the churches that sprang up from the various diciples and Jesus's brothers varies from an expansion on Judaism to a variety of messianic and 'christian' teachings. (popularized by being able to become a member of the 'chosen' without having to go through circumcision or follow the hundreds of commandments and dietary rules..)

Sunday became the sabbath to satisfy those that worshipped the Sun God...helped Constantine keep order...move the birthday to December and take care of the solstice...the bishops had a fist fight and decided on the trinity and a vote to make Jesus a diety.

Truth is a lot of power trips, control issues, got involved in creating differing interpretations and versions of the bible. Differing religions created differing commandments, and if you are King you can put together your own group and create your own version...

There are some great books and great stories with wonderful deep meanings, virtues, and morals to be culled from the book. But some stuff wouldn't have slipped through had it been done today...like the op/ed political satire about Jonah and the Big Fish, not unlike Gulliver and his Travels or Rocky and Bullwinkle, if you want to get away with tough political stances sometimes you have to make up wild stories to keep from getting burned at the stake.

Studying Bible and Biblical history is interesting, when the books were written (and rewritten) who wrote them, what their agenda was. Heck we even had the gall to rearrange the old testament books to insure it ended on a bad note so we could have 'good news' to follow.

All that being said, a little fiction, a tale with a moral is not an issue, steep it with plenty of numerology and asterology to satisfy everyone...keeps people involved. Just because McGiver was just a made up TV show doesn't mean I can't think 'what would McGiver do?' (WWMD?) and think outside the box to get myself out of a situation. To the same end I can use bible stories as examples in my life today...to assist me in making decisions.

I just hope I never have a group of men banging at my door wanting to 'know' the angels I am protecting inside....because I probably won't offer up my virginal daughters. It is lines like that that make me embrace metaphysics....because if God is good omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent, it obvious I can't read that translation litterally.

But I know as in all spirtual books, the Gita, the vedas, the tao te ching, the Koran, I know there is truth...sometimes like valuable minerals...it takes some digging.

namaste,

[truthseeker]

Originally Posted by wil

Truth to me...

God is not created in our likeness.

You might start a revolt. To think that God does not operate in the destructive ways of mankind? Phew! But you know, My Merciful Father just keeps waiting and waiting for the world to get worse and worse so my offspring don't get the reward at the end of the rainbow... some ideology sounds almost as if He is setting us all up for failure.

Priests, Rabbis and Theologians eventually learn that Genesis is a good story, an analogy, a parable... at first it hurts.

Someone else had the nerve to say it. That's so hot, I can't even swallow.

...I just hope I never have a group of men banging at my door wanting to 'know' the angels I am protecting inside....because I probably won't offer up my virginal daughters. It is lines like that that make me embrace metaphysics....because if God is good omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent, it obvious I can't read that translation litterally.

Certainly not by the hands of men.
Religious sects are still modifying information for the uneducated to devour. No matter what aspect of life, you can find something in the bible that relates to the life you are living at the time. No matter how you understand the world around you, what all mankind have in common is a basic nature that spiritual information expounds upon. Truth, just like beauty, is often in the eye of the beholder.

But I know as in all spirtual books, the Gita, the vedas, the tao te ching, the Koran, I know there is truth...sometimes like valuable minerals...it takes some digging.

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by truthseeker

You might start a revolt. To think that God does not operate in the destructive ways of mankind? Phew! But you know, My Merciful Father just keeps waiting and waiting for the world to get worse and worse so my offspring don't get the reward at the end of the rainbow... some ideology sounds almost as if He is setting us all up for failure.

Someone else had the nerve to say it. That's so hot, I can't even swallow.

Certainly not by the hands of men.
Religious sects are still modifying information for the uneducated to devour. No matter what aspect of life, you can find something in the bible that relates to the life you are living at the time. No matter how you understand the world around you, what all mankind have in common is a basic nature that spiritual information expounds upon. Truth, just like beauty, is often in the eye of the beholder.

wow Truthseeker. nice post. i could chew on that for days...but of course life is just one big fairy tale & there is no such thing as a reality in anything.
so just toss the bible & substitue it for Bullwinkle.

[Louisa]

Originally Posted by juantoo3

Kindest Regards, Knowledge!

It is getting late and I have to work tomorrow. This will be my last post this evening.

I realize you are zealous for your faith, I applaud you for that. But be aware that zealousness can cloud your reasoning. Please go back and read my post about master (little "m") of my fate and captain of my soul. Being overzealous can take you far away from where Jesus intended you to be.

I will not argue with you about the derogatory term homie, I grew up on the streets of Los Angeles, I know very well where it came from and what it means, home boy. I am NOT your home boy, and I will not tolerate offensive language or incitement of ANY type from ANY one.

For now, you will have to settle for my response to this one thing:

I agree with you in principle, pertaining to things like murder, rape, pedophilia, etc. But when it comes to God's creation I must ask, how do you personally know the mind of God? I don't even pretend to. Some things I take on faith, I do not ask why. I do not ask why God created the billions of people the way He did, to believe in Him in the way He saw fit. I do not pretend to know what He has in mind for all of these people that love Him, and do what He has placed in their hearts to do. They are not going to hell, whether you believe that or not. I do not know God's mind, I just revel in the glory that is God's majesty, and take pride and pleasure in loving the things He has created. With all of its quirks and mysteries, this is still a beautiful world. And there are still a whole lot of beautiful people in it. Not all of them are Christian, not all of them are white, not all of them are conservatives, not all of them are smart, or pretty, or funny. But they are beautiful because they love God as they understand Him. I can live with that, and I sleep a whole lot better at night now that I don't think everybody should be just like me.

Hi i am very new to this site.
I really enjoyed reading your views- Thanks

[LeoSalinas22]

hola juan,

Originally Posted by juantoo3

Tell you what, I'll be around. You will find my posts all over this site. Look back in the archives, you'll find all kinds of juicy things. If you don't know the word "divers", you have not read the KJV. And if you don't know why the words are in italics, there is no sense us talking any further. Get another glass of milk, it's good for the bones.

i understand that silas didn't want to know the meaning of "divers" and also didn't want to know why the words are in italics, but i ask you in the most humblest manner possible. i want to know. i read the king james version and so far to me is the most amazing version.
di·vers /ˈdaɪvərz/Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[dahy-verz]Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective 1.several; various; sundry: divers articles. –pronoun 2.(used with a plural verb) an indefinite number more than one: He chose divers of them, who were asked to accompany him.
somehow i get the feeling that this definition isn't accurate, though. well, hope to hear from you very soon because this is has been on my mind recently. God bless you.

[Neemai]

quotation from Eastern scripture ...

"Learned transcendentalists who know the Absolute Truth call this nondual substance Brahman, Paramatma or Bhagavan."
- Bhagavata Purana 1.2.11

Brahman = Universal spirit (Omnipresent God)
Paramatma = Localised spirit (God within the heart)
Bhagavan = Supreme Person (Personal God)

... Neemai

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, LeoSalinas!

Thank you for asking, sorry it took me a while to see this.

Originally Posted by LeoSalinas22

i understand that silas didn't want to know the meaning of "divers" and also didn't want to know why the words are in italics, but i ask you in the most humblest manner possible. i want to know. i read the king james version and so far to me is the most amazing version.
di·vers /ˈdaɪvərz/Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[dahy-verz]Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective 1.several; various; sundry: divers articles. –pronoun 2.(used with a plural verb) an indefinite number more than one: He chose divers of them, who were asked to accompany him.
somehow i get the feeling that this definition isn't accurate, though. well, hope to hear from you very soon because this is has been on my mind recently. God bless you.

I went over this elsewhere, but it escapes my memory as to where. The point I was trying to make with Silas is that the KJV was written in Elizabethan English of right at 400 years ago. English, as a "living" language, continues to morph over time.

The word written "divers" in the KJV would be written today as "diverse." So the definition you gave is correct; an indeterminate number greater than one. I use this as an example to make my point because it is a word that gave me fits for quite awhile when I began my studies in the Bible. I saw the word "divers" and thought Jacques Cousteau and aqualungs, which weren't invented until WWII. I couldn't fathom why a book translated almost 400 years ago would be talking about swimming underwater, especially when it did not fit the context. Then it dawned on me one day...to add the "e" to the end and then it all made sense.

There are reprints of the original 1611 edition of the KJV available, I have one in my library. It includes the intertestamental Apocrypha, as well as two letters from the translators, one to the King and one to the people. In those letters the learned scholars (about 75 of them) explained that they translated the best they could, but that some passages were not easily translated from the Hebrew and Greek to English. Which is why certain words are italicized. Those italicized words were inserted into the text to make it read better in English...quite different from the use we have today in English grammar for italics. Today we use italics to emphasize, in the KJV italics were used to note words that were not in the original texts.

The trouble for the modern English reader in reading the KJV is complex, in that first, we are reading an old version of English that has changed a great deal. For example, at one time a British King noted a newly constructed cathedral was "awful" and "artificial." At that time, the word awful meant "awe inspiring" and artificial meant "artful." Reading these words by modern standards, we would come away with a completely different understanding of what this King actually meant. What the King intended as a high compliment would be read today as a gross insult.

Add to this the grammar issues; what I often find is people applying modern grammar to this same Olde English, and who then end up emphasizing words that are not even in the original texts. I would have to pull a specific example to demonstrate, but I haven't the time just now. Look into a favorite passage and try reading it without the italicized words, and you will find that sometimes the context changes. However, that change in context brings the text more in line with what the Hebrew and Greek actually say. A really good translation to illustrate this is the Interlinear Bible, which translates the Hebrew and Greek word for word. It is a little clumsy to read until you get used to it (Hebrew reads backwards to English), but it also clarifies and highlights what I am saying here.

Shalom!

[LeoSalinas22]

thank you so much for clearing that up, juan. peace be upon you and your house and God bless you.

[Alex P]

Originally Posted by Knowledge

What is Truth!?

That would be Love, brother.

[mee]

Originally Posted by Alex P

That would be Love, brother.

Jehovah, the God of Truth.





Jehovah is "the God of truth." (Ps 31:5) He is faithful in all his dealings. His promises are sure, for he cannot lie. (Nu 23:19; 1Sa 15:29; Ps 89:35; Tit 1:2; Heb 6:17, 18)

He judges according to truth, that is, according to the way things really are, and not on the basis of outward appearance. (Ro 2:2; compare Joh 7:24.)

Everything that emanates from him is pure and without defect.

His judicial decisions, law, commandments, and word are truth. (Ne 9:13; Ps 19:9; 119:142, 151, 160) They are always right and proper, and they stand in opposition to all unrighteousness and error.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by mee

Jehovah, the God of Truth.





Jehovah is "the God of truth." (Ps 31:5) He is faithful in all his dealings. His promises are sure, for he cannot lie. (Nu 23:19; 1Sa 15:29; Ps 89:35; Tit 1:2; Heb 6:17, 18)

He judges according to truth, that is, according to the way things really are, and not on the basis of outward appearance. (Ro 2:2; compare Joh 7:24.)

Everything that emanates from him is pure and without defect.

His judicial decisions, law, commandments, and word are truth. (Ne 9:13; Ps 19:9; 119:142, 151, 160) They are always right and proper, and they stand in opposition to all unrighteousness and error.

Like Alex P. said, "Love is truth"...

[BlaznFattyz]

God is truth, and the truth is in his Son, and the holy spirit leads us to truth. Jesus words are true, his promises are true, and they will never change. He is holy and righteous and full of power and glory reflecting the very nature of God, and that is how he will judge those who refuse to hear the truth.

For the very work that the Father has given me to finish, and which I am doing, testifies that the Father has sent me. And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent. You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life...

that is the truth, and that is how to find eternal life, through the Son if one comes to him and accepts Him as the Father has testified of him who is true.

[mee]

[quote=BlaznFattyz;141601].

how to find eternal life, quote]




This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ. JOHN 17;3



Here is the true God .

that people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah,
You alone are the Most High over all the earth.psalm 83;18

and doing what the true God said is the thing to do .

And a voice came out of the cloud, saying: "This is my Son, the one that has been chosen. Listen to him. luke 9;35



For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life. For God sent forth his Son into the world, not for him to judge the world, but for the world to be saved through him.

JOHN 3;16-17

jesus himself said: "The Father is greater than I am." (John 14:28)

We should believe Jesus, for he surely knew the truth about his relationship to his Father.