What is the future of Islam?

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Aidyl Nurhadi

Assalamu'alaikum,
Alhamdulillah, I am glad to say that the future of Islam is positive . In France for example, Islam stands as the fastest and most popular religion. Statistically by year 2050, Islam will outnumber its counterpart Christianity. Even today, the number of practising Muslims are more than that of Christianity. Insha-Allah, all will be well.

In France they are rioting in the streets as we read this. Germany is up in alarm, Spain has given in over a couple of well placed bombs. England has been bombed twice. Belgium has been attacked from within.

So much for peaceful Islam...or, could it be a specific group or groups that is giving Islam a black eye? If so, how do you propose to stop them from ruining Islam's good name? That I would be very interested in.

v/r

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[Aidyl Nurhadi]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Then I ask you. Why is the gentleman from Afghanistan subject to fleeing the country and seeking asylum in Italy or America, all because he chose to convert to another faith (in this case, Christianity)? Why, when the courts decided to drop their case against him, the clerics called for his execution?

You are correct. Obviously I do not understand, or I missed something significant here.

Why, is it that a friend of mine since childhood, who was born and raised in America, and who fell in love with a Catholic boy and decided to convert to Christianity prior to marriage to him, was dis-owned by her father? And why did she have to be as equally shrewd and harsh, and ban her father from seeing his grandsons, until he saw reason, and accepted her back as his daughter?

Why did the neighbor across the street from my parents damn near kill their daughter for dating an American? (the sons were arrested and charged and convicted of aggrevated assault) Why did the people across town have their sons kill their daughter, for "bringing disgrace to the family", because she refused to marry the man the family chose for her?

Why can't I walk down my old neighborhood (where my parents live), in uniform, without getting pelted with eggs by the youth who are being raised in the United states?

Arab-Americans have been part of my old neighborhood since the early sixties, and we never had the kind of confrontations that are occuring almost daily in my home town today.

These are not poor people, not by a long shot. They own some of the biggest homes, drive the fanciest cars, they are not hurting for money, yet some young punk is screaming at me to get out of here and go home...telling me that "I" am the cause for all their grief...what grief? They are rich kids! They've never set foot in the old country, most of them.

This is my home..."not anymore" one said, before sticking a knife in my tire.

The absolute hatred these young people have is palpable...it come at one in waves.

No, you don't know me. I've become a stranger in my own hometown...

Multi-million dollar highschools, with Arabic graffetii on the outer brick walls. Watching the local baker spit in the dough for the bread a non Arab is about to buy. Graffetii on the local churches (but God help anyone who dares do such a thing to a mosque in town).

Peace? Islam is a peaceful religion? Ok...show me. I truly want to see where I am wrong. You see it isn't something I read, so assumed. No, my friend it is something I've lived. Wasn't so 30 years ago, but today, it is prevelant.

The young are out of control and in a rage, and the old are afraid to stand up to them. Non Arabs do stand up, and are labeled predjudice, and Arab haters.

No, just pissed off. I do not like sugar dumped in my gas tank for starters, nor do I like my windshield shattered by a baseball bat. I do not care for my parents being harrassed when they have lived in the same neighborhood for 44 years. And I do not care to take on five teens at once who are going to show the military f**k, that he can't come on the block I was raised on, well before they were a gleam in daddy's eye.

Am I as ignorant as you first thought?

Your call.

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Lol yes I still believe whole heartedly that you are unbelievably ignorant and with good reasons. Number one, what you've just regailed is your own so-called personal experience.Whether they are true or false, none here can verify. In a court of law my dear sir, such tales without evidence or witnesses will be chucked into the dustbin and disregarded. If they are lies and proven so you'd be charged with purgery which may earn you some jail time. I could do the very same thing, and I caution you again, you do not want me talking about your people or your religion. Because if I start it may never end. The list of atrocities your people have committed since time immemorian is inexhaustable. But I'm not you....I don't try to fault a religion for what a fraction of its people do, that's ignorance of the highest order. As much as we have black sheep in our community, you too have them, probably worse and more. In the matter of that Abdul Rahman guy, who's converted to Christianity and his local clerics are calling for his execution...well let me ask you this, who are these clerics? what are their names? are they qualified clerics? again who are they? who are these so-called clerics? Do you know that only judges or in Arabic qadi who are qualified in matters pertaining to the Shari'ah are allowed to rule against apostates? apostasy is a very controversial issue and death is not the only feasible solution afforded for such people under the Shari'ah. Even if he is sentenced to death he is given time to rethink and recant after consulting with learned men. Islam takes its followers seriously. If someone who has accepted it freely and then rejects it later, Islam will reprimend the person and try to correct him/her for his/her own sake. If we just let them go then we're doing injustice to them for not bringing them back to the truth. If I were in Afghanistan, I would be more than willing to speak to that person and discuss with him why he has chosen Christianity above all else. And I'm sure I could bring him back to his senses, God willing. Unfortunately, I'm in Malaysia, rather far away from Afghanistan. In Christianity, the modern approach is to let anyone and everyone make their own choices and you'lll just let them go just like that. That sir, is selfishness. If you indeed believe with your heart and soul that your religion is the righbt path, one which is the only way for salvation through Jesus Christ as you would put it then you would not just turn a blind eye knowing that that person is doomed to the pits of hell. I'm sure you'll agree this world is nothing compared to the hereafter.
You've stated so many red-herrings....trying to avoid the main question. I believe the issue that I took up in reponse to your allegation that ACCORDING TO THE QUR'AN, MUSLIMS MUST KILL THOSE WHO REJECT ISLAM was that where does the Qur'an say such a thing? That was the main issue, and I asked you to produce just one evidence FROM the QUR'AN to substantiate this mighty claim of yours. I will ask you again, produce one verse from the QUR'AN which suggests to the effect. Would you like me to produce one from your Bible? I'd be very happy to . I would just like to point out that when someone puts forth a blatant lie, all of his other statements however true they may be ought to be disregarded. Either you apologise for making such an accusation or forever I will remind you and everyone else of your dastardly lie against the Qur'an and Muslims and by God I will advertise it on my website and everywhere else possible. Wassalamu'alaikum Warahmatullah and Pax Vobiscum.

[Aidyl Nurhadi]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

In France they are rioting in the streets as we read this. Germany is up in alarm, Spain has given in over a couple of well placed bombs. England has been bombed twice. Belgium has been attacked from within.

So much for peaceful Islam...or, could it be a specific group or groups that is giving Islam a black eye? If so, how do you propose to stop them from ruining Islam's good name? That I would be very interested in.

v/r

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There are over 7 million Muslims in France. Are all these 7 million rioting in France? By God if it be so, the country would be in tremendous chaos and would declare a state of emergency. Is it anything like that? lol by the way what are they rioting about? Does it only involve Muslims? Are you sure? How sure are you? Were you there? Who says that they're 100% Muslims? My dear sir, is this how you disprove a religion?
Yes I kinow about England having been there so many times before . But who did the bombings? Muslims? are you sure? Where's the evidence?Shortly after the incident, a policeman chased a suspected MUSLIM victim and shot him to death. After investigations were made, it was out that the man had nothing whatsoever to do with the bombings. What do you say about this? Sir these are nothing more than conjectures. But you're not all to be blamed, it's partly the media's fault. You're fed with so many things that contain half truths and half lies. You see on your telly everyday that terrible things are happening committed supposedly by Muslims, Muslims, Muslims and these people are called Islamic militants? How are they Islamic? It is because of these things that in time you get programmed with a certain mind set. And thus far, your writings suggests how badly you've been influenced by the media. Let me give you a 101 lesson about the Media. The News love to air and report on negative happenings and very rarely on positive things. After all, the saying goes no news is good news. I think it is safe to say that people would rather hear about destruction than anything good. And the media responds to this by feeding you images and stories of destruction 24/7. Sure bad things happen all the time and everywhere, there are over 7 billion people on Earth anyway. Things are bound to happen when the world is bloody jam packed. Let me give you an analogy. Say that I, Aidyl Nurhadi the grandson of veteran film makers in Malaysia and a son of a reknown businessman drives home one day SAFELY. Will that be reported in the paper in the morning? Or come out on prime time news at 8.00? definitely not...
Now change the story, Aidyl Nurhadi drives back home and meets a terrible, most grotesque accident. I crashed into a trailer, my head is severed and my body is decapitated into half and my innards spattered everywhere. Now there is a very high likelihood that my gruesome death will be reported in tomorrow's papers, damn maybe even on prime time. BUT what the news DO NOT report and cover is that MILLIONS of others also driving back home, made it safely. lol Can you see it now? There's a good saying from Reader's Digest, there are more good people in this world than there are bad, but the bad people are the ones who usually make the more noise.

[Aidyl Nurhadi]

Quahom 1, What you're trying to do, I dare say is blaming Islam for the wrongs of some of its adherents have committed. You're trying to say that Islam teaches us terrorism, Islam teaches us rape, Islam teaches us suicide blah blah blah blah. Do you realise there are over 1.5 BILLION Muslims on the face of the planet? If indeed Islam TEACHES all those things, the world would be in utter ruin and chaos! Could you imagine 1.5 BILLION terrorists??? or maybe not all because you'd argue that infants and younglings can't possibly do much damage. But say half of that...about 500 MILLION...EVEn that is BIG ENOUGH to create an unimaginable WAR. If Islam does breed terrorism, then I as a practicing Muslim would be going around chopping people's heads off! The majority of the population in Malaysia are Muslims, it's an Islamic state ruled by Muslims along side Chinese and Hindus as well as Sikhs....I suggest you visit us sometime and then you can tell me which Muslim group or individual is going around killing "infidels" in the name of God. If you come to my house you will be able to see that left hand side neighbour is Chinese, my right hand neighbour is Indian, she's a political figure for the MIC, the Indian political party, my opposite neighbour is an Indian doctor, on his left are Indian Christians and on his right are Muslims. Our town is called Kampung Tunku in Petaling Jaya, Selangor. Whenever you have the time, I'd be happy to have you over, you can see if I or any member of my family is gowing around killing our neighbours.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Aidyl Nurhadi

Quahom 1, What you're trying to do, I dare say is blaming Islam for the wrongs of some of its adherents have committed. You're trying to say that Islam teaches us terrorism, Islam teaches us rape, Islam teaches us suicide blah blah blah blah. Do you realise there are over 1.5 BILLION Muslims on the face of the planet? If indeed Islam TEACHES all those things, the world would be in utter ruin and chaos! Could you imagine 1.5 BILLION terrorists??? or maybe not all 1.5 billion, because you'd argue that infants and younglings can't possibly do much damage. But say half of that...about 500 MILLION...EVEn that is BIG ENOUGH to create an unimaginable WAR. If Islam does breed terrorists, then I as a practicing Muslim would be going around chopping people's heads off! The majority of the population in Malaysia are Muslims, it's an Islamic state ruled by Muslims along side Chinese and Hindus as well as Sikhs....I suggest you visit us sometime and then you can tell me which Muslim group or individual is going around killing "infidels" in the name of God. If you come to my house you will be able to see that left hand side neighbour is Chinese, my right hand neighbour is Indian, she's a political figure for the MIC, the Indian political party, my opposite neighbour is an Indian doctor, on his left are Indian Christians and on his right are Muslims. Our town is called Kampung Tunku in Petaling Jaya, Selangor. Whenever you have the time, I'd be happy to have you over, you can see if I or any member of my family is gowing around killing our neighbours.

No, I am asking why all of the sudden there are problems brewing quite rapidly everywhere. And I am aware that Malaysia holds the largest contingency of Muslims in the world. And as you point out there is a curious lack of relative trouble concerning religion in that part of the world.

This is a paradox. One that needs to be understood and answered fairly soon, I should think.

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[Aidyl Nurhadi]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

No, I am asking why all of the sudden there are problems brewing quite rapidly everywhere. And I am aware that Malaysia holds the largest contingency of Muslims in the world. And as you point out there is a curious lack of relative trouble concerning religion in that part of the world.

This is a paradox. One that needs to be understood and answered fairly soon, I should think.

v/r

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Problems are brewing everywhere, everytime.......it only seems more rampant today because we've got international news coverage, thanks to CNN, BBC, FOX and the likes . Actually religious harmony in this part of the world, namely South East Asia is nothing to shout about. We have our problems too just like the rest of the world. In Thailand for example, only last year hundreds of Muslims were killed by the Thai government. In Philipines, seperatists of Mindanau and other parts of the country are still at large. In Myanmar, they're still coping with international pressure. Perhaps the best place to be in right now round this part of the world would be either in Malaysia, Brunei or Singapore . Malaysia for one is the best example of a good Islamic country. The reason why our country is unbelievably peaceful when compared with other countries around the world is because our people are tolerant and understanding. Most anyway ....Hmm I did not understand what you meant by Malaysia has the largest Muslim contingency...As for the problems that you see that may involve Muslims, I suggest you read the analogy I've given in the post prior to the one you just responded to. I'm glad that you kept quiet about the reply I gave to your charges and my question regarding your accusation about the Qur'an. I take that as a sign of your agreement .

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Aidyl Nurhadi

Problems are brewing everywhere, everytime.......it only seems more rampant today because we've got international news coverage, thanks to CNN, BBC, FOX and the likes . Actually religious harmony in this part of the world, namely South East Asia is nothing to shout about. We have our problems too just like the rest of the world. In Thailand for example, only last year hundreds of Muslims were killed by the Thai government. In Philipines, seperatists of Mindanau and other parts of the country are still at large. In Myanmar, they're still coping with international pressure. Perhaps the best place to be in right now round this part of the world would be either in Malaysia, Brunei or Singapore . Malaysia for one is the best example of a good Islamic country. The reason why our country is unbelievably peaceful when compared with other countries around the world is because our people are tolerant and understanding. Most anyway ....Hmm I did not understand what you meant by Malaysia has the largest Muslim contingency...As for the problems that you see that may involve Muslims, I suggest you read the analogy I've given in the post prior to the one you just responded to. I'm glad that you kept quiet about the reply I gave to your charges and my question regarding your accusation about the Qur'an. I take that as a sign of your agreement .

For the most part I do. I do not accuse the Qur'an of anything actually, only what certain clerics have decreed that the Qur'an states, and the willingness of some to follow what the clerics have decreed, especially those young people who have no socio-econonmic reason to do so.

As I understand it, the majority of Muslims are in the South East Asian area (sorry if I singled out Malaysia). And I believe the number of total in Islam is closer to 2.1 billion.

Perhaps Islam is not the issue at all, but rather certain groups of people who mix with Islam. Sort of like man and alcohol. Some can handle it just fine, but others who use it might as well have their brains fall out on the road.

90% of man's problems on earth are caused by 10% of the people in any given society.

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[thipps]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

90% of man's problems on earth are caused by 10% of the people in any given society.
v/r
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The black sheeps of any community. Misconceptions/misunderstanding occur when the media takes such ppl and projects them as examplary individuals of that society.

[brucegdc]

What about counter examples to the rhetoric? Is the US media missing/not reporting on them (goodness knows that the reporting is somewhat skewed here)? For example, with the christian convert issue - the impression from the news services was that there was agreement among Afghani clerics that he should be killed by the mob, but the only dissenting Islamic voice I saw reported were from the Council on Arab Islamic Relations (CAIR) and other Western groups. Were there also dissenting voices in the predominantly Islamic countries from the religious establishment? What is visible here is often the clerics who are the ones calling for death & destruction - when a Christian cleric does that, the response from other Christian groups is usually rapid and condemning the statement as counter to core beliefs - I don't see that with Islam. Does Islam just need a better press agent in the West? Even with CAIR, what I see is the statements primarily coming from scholars, not religious leaders (and one can reasonably assume their bias is towards a positive portrayal of Islam...)

[Abdullah]

Greetings to All,

I see the future of Islam as being verry bright; maybe not in the immediate future, but definetley in the near future [as is allready confirmed in the hadiths].

911, although being the horrendous incident that it was, is actually bringing more people into Islam then taking them away from it [as the conversions in America in the aftermath of 911 shows].

Also the 911 incident has served to deliver the message that Islam is a religion of peace, to the general people of the world; after 911, Muslim clerics, political leaders, Christian Leaders, western Leaders, have all repeated time and time again, in the media, that 911 and terrorism has nothing to do with the true Islam and such publicity and conveyance of the Islamic message of peace can only serve to do good to the religion of Islam rather then to do it any harm.

And as for the 'liberal movement', well that allready started about three hundred yeas ago; it was instigated and supported by the non Muslims and hypocryts in order to try and weaken and destabilise the Ottoman Empire; the liberal movement is still continuing but as the history of the last few centuries show, the overall vast majority of true Muslims refuse to be fooled by this hypocritical movement and thus this movement remains to be just a verry small minority of so called 'Muslims', who just remain on the fringes.

PEACE TO ALL

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by thipps

The black sheeps of any community. Misconceptions/misunderstanding occur when the media takes such ppl and projects them as examplary individuals of that society.

In light of your reply, and in conjunction with this article:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12165495/

How can the good God fearing followers of Islam, put a stop to those who are presenting a very dark side? This type of behavior will have to be quelled from within, I strongly believe. I do not think the outside world should try to contain such behavior, however, I also do not believe it should be left unchecked.

I fail to see where that which is described in the article would do anything but build anger, fury and cold resolve into to those affected by the loss and desicration of those lost.

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[Light]

How can the good God fearing followers of Islam, put a stop to those who are presenting a very dark side? This type of behavior will have to be quelled from within, I strongly believe. I do not think the outside world should try to contain such behavior, however, I also do not believe it should be left unchecked.

When the Klu Klux Clan was active, they will probably be asking you this question instead, or, even when IRA is terrorising London. What happens today is no different to what happens 10 or 100 or even 1000 years ago. The only difference is the group the extremist belongs to.

The fact is there is no real justice in this world. However, Allah has said that you will be rewarded by your actions in this world in Judgement Day. So be it you're a Muslim, Christian, Jews or any other faith, you will still be judged fairly where not a single grain of deeds nor a single grain of sin is disregarded.

It is not just to be quelled from within. It should be quelled from both sides. We should start to find out why is there such anger and fury. What cause this anger. Find solution and adopt them even if it is unfavourable to ourself.

The answers might just be too difficult for us to swallow.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Light

When the Klu Klux Clan was active, they will probably be asking you this question instead, or, even when IRA is terrorising London. What happens today is no different to what happens 10 or 100 or even 1000 years ago. The only difference is the group the extremist belongs to.

The fact is there is no real justice in this world. However, Allah has said that you will be rewarded by your actions in this world in Judgement Day. So be it you're a Muslim, Christian, Jews or any other faith, you will still be judged fairly where not a single grain of deeds nor a single grain of sin is disregarded.

It is not just to be quelled from within. It should be quelled from both sides. We should start to find out why is there such anger and fury. What cause this anger. Find solution and adopt them even if it is unfavourable to ourself.

The answers might just be too difficult for us to swallow.

Tell me, if we were suddenly to provide good paying jobs to the young who are throwing away their lives for this "cause", would that stop this violence? If we were to offer secular schools, to "augment" the religious schools to give a decent education to those that fight this fight, would that stop this violence?

If we were to throw money into the countries affected (invest funds), and money was no object...would that stop this violence?

I submit the answer is no as of this time. For we have (world economy wise), attempted to provide good paying jobs for worthwhile rebuilding, we have offered secular education (physics, math, chemisty, etc), to augment the religious education, and we have invested money hand over fist just to get the basics back on track...but we (the outsiders) are being thwarted at every turn.

I could very well be wrong...but the casualty lists don't lie...

So, what can we do to help, since the basic tried and true efforts of yesterday, no longer work today?

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[Light]

If the donor is sincere and truthful in their actions, it may well be a blessing on its own that will eventually put a stop to the violence.

We also have to ponder upon ourself, about the media. Is it telling the truth, the whole truth or is it selectively telling thing that it prefer while hiding the rest. Yes the casualty list doesn't lie, just as truthful the death of hundreds if not thousands of innocent child and women and congregation in the mosque.

That is why I said, the truth may be too difficult for us to swallow. As long as there is violence on both side, each blaming the other, there will never be peace.

So, what can we do to help, since the basic tried and true efforts of yesterday, no longer work today?

To resolve this is on its entirety not just one (i.e. Iraq) Look at Guantanamo Bay, look at Pelestine, look at Bosnia, look at Sierra Leone. You see the Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him, said

"The believers in their mutual kindness, compassion and sympathy are jsut like one body. When one of the lims suffers, the whole body responds to it with wakefulness and fever" [Al-Bukhari and Muslim]

Muslims are brothers and thus if one is hurt, the other will feel it too. We should start treating each other with respect, cast not lies just for personal gains that we know will cause suffering to others.

Have we seen this happen? No I don't think so.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Light

If the donor is sincere and truthful in their actions, it may well be a blessing on its own that will eventually put a stop to the violence.

We also have to ponder upon ourself, about the media. Is it telling the truth, the whole truth or is it selectively telling thing that it prefer while hiding the rest. Yes the casualty list doesn't lie, just as truthful the death of hundreds if not thousands of innocent child and women and congregation in the mosque.

That is why I said, the truth may be too difficult for us to swallow. As long as there is violence on both side, each blaming the other, there will never be peace.



To resolve this is on its entirety not just one (i.e. Iraq) Look at Guantanamo Bay, look at Pelestine, look at Bosnia, look at Sierra Leone. You see the Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him, said



Muslims are brothers and thus if one is hurt, the other will feel it too. We should start treating each other with respect, cast not lies just for personal gains that we know will cause suffering to others.

Have we seen this happen? No I don't think so.

Well, that is a good point. You haven't seen the comraderie happen. But let us continue with your other concerns: GTMO to start. Do you really believe that they (prisoners, current) are being mistreated? Do you really believe that? Abu Grav...I submit the media has got your goat as well on this particular issue.

Just as you imply that we have been "had" by the media on other issues...

I submit that every "prisoner" that leaves GTMO will leave healthy, sound (more or less), and on their own two feet (ambilatory, self), as they came in. Actually better in health. (unless they choose to go on a starvation fast)...stupid.

In any event, they will not be allowed to starve themselves, nor do they get beat for attempting to do so.

Palestine is a people who've chosen their destiny, (that is a suicidal government). They had a nation state right in their hands 12 years ago...it wasn't enough. Today, they could be the "Nation of Palistine". But they want and demand more...then want the extinction of another people...

That is like Nikita Kruschev in 1964, when he threatened the United States with the following at the UN: "We will bury you", as he pounded his shoe on the UN podium.

The revelations of your own "Book" is quite clear that this will never happen. (the irradication of Israel). Your own prophets ask "what will happen to the faithful?"

What will happen is what we all need to be aware of and try to alleviate. Not just Muslim, but Jew and Christian alike...

I like the entheusiasm of Mohammed, when he wanted to combine all three faiths into one super faith. He really believed it was possible. He just didn't see the "trouble" that would cause.

my thoughts

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Bosnia and Sierra Leonne, well, that is not the issue here. They are a different ethnic group set, claiming Islam as their calling (but these cultures have been fighting since before Islam ever showed up on their door step).