What is the Christian perspective of Muhammed (pbuh)?

[islamis4u]

DB has done wonderfully well in replying to the posts and she is very much clear also i would say, its much easy and precise to understand!!!

[dailogue is the best]

Originally Posted by islamis4u

DB has done wonderfully well in replying to the posts and she is very much clear also i would say, its much easy and precise to understand!!!

Thank you, brother, for the compliment....Actually, I m doing nothing , but explaining what I believe in....

[cyberpi]

Originally Posted by Pico

That sounds like like deceit to me.

Who says Jesus EVER died? Who says he was killed?

John 11:26 (Jesus) "And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall NEVER die. Believest thou this?"

John 5:24 (Jesus) "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that hears my word, and believes on him that sent me, has everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."

It sounds to me like Jesus never did, and never will die. Apparently, neither have some others:

Matthew 22:31-32 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have you not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, "I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?" God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

So any wording that says Jesus died seems a bit... misguided.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by dailogue is the best

Hello, brother Pico,

you know what? I feel that there is a rope between us, each one of us holds to the different edges of it...sometimes, you pull the rope towards you, and sometimes, I do.. Each one of us says "this what I think", the other repeats "and this is what I think" .....

you know, brother, you are a person of strong belief as I feel, and I m happy for that.....belief gives us power to continue and hold on...belief is the rockstone that we rely on to feel secure and safe.....belief is the map, the guideway, the lamb towards the truth......

I have made my image about you: brother Pico is a deep, devout, and comitted Christian believer who believes in the Original Sin,Trinity, Jesus's crucifixion, salvation....., and who sees death as a punishment....He believes that Adam and Eve are created in the picture of God........and he sincerly defends what he believes in....that are the characteristics of a good believer....

I, too, believe in Christianity and Jesus(peace be upon him),but I differ with a lot of ideas that you believe in.....however, difference is of no harm....difference was,is and it will always be till we meet God. God says:"....To each among you have We prescribed a Law and an Oplen Way.If God had so willed, he would have made you a single people, but (His Plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to God; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which you dispute (5:48)"....

I think, brother, that now you have gained an idea about how Muslims regard life, death, man's creation, the trinity, Jesus's crucifixion, salvation, and of course, there are still many things that desrve to be known.....I want to say that by knowing that, you are in fact paving the way, and building a bridge towards good dialogue and communication with Muslims....

Me, in turn, I dont deny that I have learned so much from you all,brethren, and I m happy with this knowledge as it makes me to feel you, and to establish that thin line with you that can make distances between us shorter and shorter.....It's all in understanding, despite difference.......

peace life, brother
sis, DB

This has got to be the most reasonable and rational expression of thought that I've read in a long time between Muslim and Christian.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by cyberpi

Who says Jesus EVER died? Who says he was killed?

John 11:26 (Jesus) "And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall NEVER die. Believest thou this?"

John 5:24 (Jesus) "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that hears my word, and believes on him that sent me, has everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."

It sounds to me like Jesus never did, and never will die. Apparently, neither have some others:

Matthew 22:31-32 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have you not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, "I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?" God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

So any wording that says Jesus died seems a bit... misguided.

Except Jesus himself declared he would be put to death, and then he would defeat death. Indeed, he turned to the Sanhedrin after rousting the merchants out of the temple, and said "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will rebuild it." Of course they didn't understand him for they declared "It took 50 years to build this temple, and you will rebuild it in three days?" Then Jesus shook his head in sadness, because they did not comprehend the significance of his declaration; that he meant his body was the temple. Their minds were clouded by rationalization, literalization and "stark reason".

[Pico]

Originally Posted by cyberpi

Who says Jesus EVER died? Who says he was killed?

John 11:26 (Jesus) "And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall NEVER die. Believest thou this?"

John 5:24 (Jesus) "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that hears my word, and believes on him that sent me, has everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."

It sounds to me like Jesus never did, and never will die. Apparently, neither have some others:

Matthew 22:31-32 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have you not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, "I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?" God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

So any wording that says Jesus died seems a bit... misguided.

I'm sorry but you have taken these phrases out of context. If you read the crucifixion accounts it's obvious that Jesus died. Then he conquered death in order to life to give eternal life to all. Thats the part you're missing.

[islamis4u]

I don't just know to conclude look did Jesus (PBUH) Claimed to be God?

[Pico]

Originally Posted by islamis4u

I don't just know to conclude look did Jesus (PBUH) Claimed to be God?

He sure did.

Originally Posted by John 5

7Jesus said to them, "My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am working." 18For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God. 19Jesus gave them this answer: "I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.

[Netti-Netti]

Originally Posted by Pico

He sure did.

.... calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God. [/quote]
Errr, calling G-d one's Father is making oneself equal with God?

whatever the Father does the Son also does.

Performing the same kind of action makes two persons the same?

You and I are both sitting at the computer running spell checks on our respective narratives - using the same spell checker even. Are we the same person simply by virtue of the fact that we are doing the same thing?

I don't think Jesus was a pantheist.

[Netti-Netti]

Howdy Cyberpi,

Originally Posted by cyberpi

Who says Jesus EVER died?

John 11:26 (Jesus) "And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall NEVER die. Believest thou this?"

John 5:24 (Jesus) "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that hears my word, and believes on him that sent me, has everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."

The subject in the above passage is not Jesus; it is referrring to believers,

It sounds to me like Jesus never did, and never will die. Apparently, neither have some others:

Matthew 22:31-32 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have you not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, "I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?" God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

The above passage does not refer to Jesus; it refers to G-d.

So any wording that says Jesus died seems a bit... misguided.

Your conclusion does not follow from the text you cite.

Who says he was killed?

John 19:30

After receiving the vinegar, he said, It is finished:
and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

[islamis4u]

Originally Posted by Pico

He sure did.

The Bible ascribes sons by the tons to God. (a) 'Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the SON OF GOD." LUKE 3:38 (b) "That the SONS OF GOD saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took wives of all which they chose. ". . when the SONS OF GOD came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown." GENESIS 6:2 and 4 (c) " . . Thus- saith the Lord, Israel is MY SON even my FIRSTBORN." EXODUS 4:22 (d) " . . and Ephraim is my FIRSTBORN," JEREMIAH 31:9 (e) " . . Thou (o David) ART MY SON; this day have I (God) BEGOTTEN thee. " PSALMS 2:7 (TONS A ton is 2000 lbs weight, that is about a thousand kilograms.) ("FIRST BORN:" How can there be two "firstborns"?) ("BEGOTTEN" How can God beget David at the age of forty? "This day'?) (f) "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the SONS OF GOD. ' ROMANS 8:14

[Pico]

Originally Posted by islamis4u

The Bible ascribes sons by the tons to God. (a) 'Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the SON OF GOD." LUKE 3:38 (b) "That the SONS OF GOD saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took wives of all which they chose. ". . when the SONS OF GOD came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown." GENESIS 6:2 and 4 (c) " . . Thus- saith the Lord, Israel is MY SON even my FIRSTBORN." EXODUS 4:22 (d) " . . and Ephraim is my FIRSTBORN," JEREMIAH 31:9 (e) " . . Thou (o David) ART MY SON; this day have I (God) BEGOTTEN thee. " PSALMS 2:7 (TONS A ton is 2000 lbs weight, that is about a thousand kilograms.) ("FIRST BORN:" How can there be two "firstborns"?) ("BEGOTTEN" How can God beget David at the age of forty? "This day'?) (f) "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the SONS OF GOD. ' ROMANS 8:14

Yeah, being called sons of God is a blessing. It is reserved for people God chooses. But Jesus was different. He was God the Father's beloved Son.

Originally Posted by Matthew 3

16As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on him. 17And a voice from heaven said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased."

Originally Posted by Luke 3

21When all the people were being baptized, Jesus was baptized too. And as he was praying, heaven was opened 22and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: "You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased."

Those two are from the NIV.
The NLT translation renders it like this:

Originally Posted by mark 1

9 One day Jesus came from Nazareth in Galilee, and John baptized him in the Jordan River. 10 As Jesus came up out of the water, he saw the heavens splitting apart and the Holy Spirit descending on him[e] like a dove. 11 And a voice from heaven said, “You are my dearly loved Son, and you bring me great joy.”

There is quite obviously a very distinct bond between God the Father and Jesus his Son.

One of the cool things is, that when we have faith that God raised Jesus from the dead we literally become children of God.

Originally Posted by Romans 5

5For we know how dearly God loves us, because he has given us the Holy Spirit to fill our hearts with his love.

Originally Posted by 1 Corinthians 12

3So I want you to know that no one speaking by the Spirit of God will curse Jesus, and no one can say Jesus is Lord, except by the Holy Spirit.

Originally Posted by Romans 8

4 For all who are led by the Spirit of God are children of God. 15 So you have not received a spirit that makes you fearful slaves. Instead, you received God’s Spirit when he adopted you as his own children. Now we call him, “Abba, Father.” 16 For his Spirit joins with our spirit to affirm that we are God’s children.

We are also made holy.

Originally Posted by 1 Corinthians 6

11 Some of you were once like that. But you were cleansed; you were made holy; you were made right with God by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Honestly, it really blows my mind how great God is

[islamis4u]

Originally Posted by Pico

Yeah, being called sons of God is a blessing. It is reserved for people God chooses. But Jesus was different. He was God the Father's beloved Son.





Those two are from the NIV.
The NLT translation renders it like this:



There is quite obviously a very distinct bond between God the Father and Jesus his Son.

One of the cool things is, that when we have faith that God raised Jesus from the dead we literally become children of God.








We are also made holy.




Honestly, it really blows my mind how great God is

What you says nothing proves that Jesus(PBUH) is God.......... rather you are doing saying anything which you your ownself little confused... The only thing which makes Jesus(PBUH) God is term 'beloved'??? thats awkward....

[cyberpi]

Originally Posted by Netti-Netti

The subject in the above passage is not Jesus; it is referrring to believers,

Don't you think Jesus was also a believer??? If not then what was the purpose of being tempted in the desert?

Originally Posted by Netti-Netti

The above passage does not refer to Jesus; it refers to G-d.

It also referred to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, which I was reading Jesus as saying that they were living somewhere else and that God was still their God at the time that God said it.

Originally Posted by Netti-Netti

Your conclusion does not follow from the text you cite.

If you were bound up and thrown in a prison, would the people you knew say that you were living, or that you were dead? If you left the prison would the people there say that you were living, or that you were dead? If someone comes and demolishes your house are you dead? How could you rebuild your house if you are really dead?

If death means that the flesh is stopped like a broken machine... then sure, the text says that the flesh of Jesus was stopped. But the definition of living or of life in Jesus's words is much more than the flesh. Therefore so can the definition of death be much more than the physical body... and in fact in the Gospel Jesus used the word 'death' or 'dead' to mean something entirely different. People the world calls living, Jesus says they are dead... and people the world calls dead, Jesus says they are living. Jesus may not have flesh that you recognize today... but he is still living. I am not referring to 'in our memory' either.

If the Qur'an is to be dismissed with the definition of words as the world has defined them... then the gospel itself has already been dismissed on the exact same grounds. Jesus called the dead living and the living dead... you might explain to me that he was talking about a spiritual death. So why then is the Qur'an held to a different standard?

[Pico]

Originally Posted by islamis4u

What you says nothing proves that Jesus(PBUH) is God.......... rather you are doing saying anything which you your ownself little confused... The only thing which makes Jesus(PBUH) God is term 'beloved'??? thats awkward....

No. First I said that Jesus called God his Father, which made him equal with God (I kinda wondered a little off topic there too). He almost got murdered a few times for saying that.

Then someone said that other people are called "sons of God." Angels are referred to this too in the Old Testament.

But I replied saying that with Jesus it's a different kind of relationship between Him and God the Father, because He was God the Son.

Jesus also says that "If you have seen me, you have seen the Father."

"And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me." (Like He did in those quotes from my last post.)

"...you are ready to kill me, because you have no room for my word. I am telling you what I have seen in the Father's presence."

"Any sin or blasphemy against the Father or the Son can be forgiven." (Why would saying anything against Jesus be considered blasphemy?)