What is needed...

[Dor]

No the foundation is a Rock.

But as Chris said call a spade a spade...if the view is decidedly nonchristian why should I be PC and not come out and say it is BS.

[wil]

Originally Posted by Dondi

...But let me start with what I as a Christian think are the essential elements of the Christian faith (you may agree or disagree):

1) That Christianity emerged from the faith that is found in the OT.
2) That there was a man by the name of Jesus who actaully lived in 1st century Israel.
3) That this man was believed to be "the Christ" or the Messiah by His followers.
4) That Jesus was Divine in essence.
5) That there is an bounded relationship between the Son, the Father, and the Holy Spirit.
6) That Jesus taught His followers the ways of the Kingdom of God and expounded on the OT prophets to support those teachings.
7) That He went around and performed miracles and healing for the people.
8) That He was crucified, was buried, and rose again in a physical body.
9) That through His death, we might have life.
10) That He is at the right hand of the Father.

What do you think?

1. yes
2. depends on the definition of man and whether we have the correct calendar and or timeframe
3. believed...interesting terminology
4. in essence...ditto
5. yes
6. yes
7. yes
8. I think it possible to be true, and possible that it not...but niether diminishes my faith in the teachings...if anything, if metaphor makes it stronger.
9. I think through his life, he gave us power over death
10. I and the father are one...

This is the crux, I have no issues with anyone that believes 100% any of Dor's essential elements. But I believe what is written that were his words and deeds are all I need. In his teachings I don't need the death and resurection stories....except that those stories are what instigated Paul, which created the church which canonized the bible which got us to read all the stories of Jesus's life.

I can except that I am in the minority...I can accept others beliefs as they stand.... and if it were proven that Jesus never existed...that Josephus et al or whoever made it all up...the story is good enough for me. I've got the essence of Christ, I work to see the essence of Christ in all, I search to find that glimmer of light, and do my best to allow it to be expressed...and I don't care if they call it Krishna or Buddha or Tao or.... I'd like to assist that entity in front of me who is an expression of G-d to express fully...

Don't you think that is 'christian'? One wishes to condemn me or toss me out of a christian forum because I find salvation in the story?

[Dor]

Originally Posted by wil

But I believe what is written that were his words and deeds are all I need. In his teachings I don't need the death and resurection stories.

Thats right Wil, you are allowed to pick and choose what you want to take and what you want to trash....it is called living in a PC world.

All I will say is start with Romans 5 especially verse 8 and 9 but whole chapter is good.

[wil]

I am more often referred to as politically incorrect.

Most seem to pick and choose (or come up with justifications for what they don't call picking and choosing)...Some throw away Jesus's, Ye are G-ds and Everything I have done you can do and more.

Tisn't it a lovely thing...free will.

[Dondi]

Originally Posted by lunamoth

Hi Dondi, I know where you are coming from, I think, but the problem is in then deciding on all those points you raised. That's why I like the Christianity board COC : "The Christianity board has a remit to discuss mainstream Christian beliefs across denominations, where the founding doctrine is that Jesus Christ offers sole salvation to humanity though His Death on the cross." It's simple, I think it does capture that core while also allowing that this means somewhat different things to different people.

If we try to define it any more then there will be be division. I heard a great quote today and I think it fits here:

Wisdom is knowledge that unifies, not divides.

It's a challenge, and it's more than for just here at CR.

luna

OK, maybe we can go with that. Except...The only thing I would add to this is the Resurrection of Jesus Christ. This is the focal tenet of Paul in I Cor 15:14-17:

"And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins."

Don't you think this is pretty central?

And I'm debating whether the Deity of Christ should be included, but then this is not evident in some denominations.

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by Dondi

OK, maybe we can go with that. Except...The only thing I would add to this is the Resurrection of Jesus Christ. This is the focal tenet of Paul in I Cor 15:14-17:

"And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins."

Don't you think this is pretty central?

And I'm debating whether the Deity of Christ should be included, but then this is not evident in some denominations.

OK, yes, I think these are foundational things, but JWs and LDSs would disagree. Another important thing is that I am not trying to open up the COC for debate here; that lies fully under Brian's jurisdiction. I am only looking for views about how to talk honestly and openly with each other under any circumstance, not just here at CR.

cheers,
lunamoth

[Faithfulservant]

Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower

That's why I jumped on the anti-catholic thing on the other thread. Notice how the fundies are entirely silent? Faux tolerance will get us nowhere.

No.. you're just upset because we didnt take the bait. I have no desire to be contentious with anyone