What is America thinking?

[Muslimwoman]

Perhaps I have found the answer to my original question 'what is America thinking?'

Why We Fight - A Film By Eugene Jarecki

I was absolutely staggered by the numbers of dollars spent and the 25% profit margin but apparently 'numbers are distracting'. Also by the 2002 State of the Union message which talks about "the axis of evil being Iraq, Iran and North Korea". Five years down the road, thats Iraq devastated, N Korea bribed into line, so just Iran to take care of.

Definately worth going into the site and watching the mini films. I was particularly interested by Karen's Story. When you enter the site proper, it takes a while to load but is worth the wait.

"to spread democracy and freedom throughout the world", does that sound so different from others that claim they must spread their views throughout the world? What right does any country or group have to insist that the world live by their views?

If anyone knows where I can watch the whole film online I would be most grateful for a link.

[Tao_Equus]

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

I was absolutely staggered by the numbers of dollars spent and the 25% profit margin

Bush has a family history of making money from war so no surprises there. Ever since great grandaddy Bush was handing out weapons contracts to the industrial giants back before and during WW 1 that family have courted and profited from such lucrative partnerships.

If anyone knows where I can watch the whole film online I would be most grateful for a link.

A quick glance, (dont have time at moment to check) shows me a film of that name on Youtube.

Tao

[Muslimwoman]

Hi Tao

It does beg the question why so many people voted for him then? What was he offering, other than bloodshed around the globe?

[Pathless]

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

It does beg the question why so many people voted for him then? What was he offering, other than bloodshed around the globe?

If he was voted into office, I think the main reason is that Americans as a whole aren't concerned with issues, and certainly can't be bothered to research candidates on their own initiative. That's what TV is for, and for the ones that still read, Newsweek and Time.

Americans are concerned with their little families, money, property, status, and work. Often they also care about sports and/or shopping, as well as how much money the neighbors make. If polled even now, I would imagine only a small percentage of Americans would be aware of the history of Family Bush. People simply are not civically engaged or curious. They watch TV, and treat presidential elections like a game show, casting their votes after the one with the best suit and the keenest sound bites. We are, I believe, in general, a nation of morons.

Your Man in 'merrika,
Pathless

[Pathless]

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

Perhaps I have found the answer to my original question 'what is America thinking?'

Why We Fight - A Film By Eugene Jarecki

I was absolutely staggered by the numbers of dollars spent and the 25% profit margin but apparently 'numbers are distracting'. Also by the 2002 State of the Union message which talks about "the axis of evil being Iraq, Iran and North Korea". Five years down the road, thats Iraq devastated, N Korea bribed into line, so just Iran to take care of.

Definately worth going into the site and watching the mini films. I was particularly interested by Karen's Story. When you enter the site proper, it takes a while to load but is worth the wait.

"to spread democracy and freedom throughout the world", does that sound so different from others that claim they must spread their views throughout the world? What right does any country or group have to insist that the world live by their views?

If anyone knows where I can watch the whole film online I would be most grateful for a link.

I would also assume that most Americans these days aren't familiar with Eisenhower's warnings in 1961 about the military-industrial complex, and his emphasis on government vigilance against this complex. Certainly that's not in the American history textbooks in high schools.

Again, most Americans are more likely to watch American Idol than read something by the likes of Howard Zinn or Noam Chomsky. If they don't learn this stuff in school, they also won't hear it on most radio or television stations.

Great videos, by the way. Thanks for the link, MW.

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by Pathless

I would also assume that most Americans these days aren't familiar with Eisenhower's warnings in 1961 about the military-industrial complex, and his emphasis on government vigilance against this complex. Certainly that's not in the American history textbooks in high schools.

Hi Pathless

Thank you for your honest response. I seem to keep coming up with the word apathy recently and again it seems to strike a chord here.

As I don't understand your government setup may I ask what the significance was of Eisenhower changing his speach from 'military industrial Congressional complex' to 'military industrial complex'?

We seem to have a different problem here in the UK, in that people seem more inclined to find out what a parties policies are but of course none of the parties stick to those once voted in. The term 'u-turn' is so overused regarding our politics that is now meaningless and has little effect.

Originally Posted by Pathless

Great videos, by the way. Thanks for the link, MW.

You are welcome. I hope you realise I am not trying to bash American people (although their general apathy seems worying), just your government and it's Empire building policy.

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

I hope you realise I am not trying to bash American people

I wouldn't worry aboot it MW, everyone else does (excluding the Americans) So fill your boots lol.

[Saltmeister]

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

Hey 17th. Just wondering. Is that you in the picture?

[Pontius]

There is nothing to be done. We (mankind) are very similiar to a distructive bacteria or virus. We will mindlessly continue to multiply while consuming every bit of resources available until we destroy both the host (planet earth) and ourselves. Do you think there is anyway to stop this? Pray, oh yeah! Pray that my religion will overcome your religion? Islam-"kill the infadel" Christianity- Burn the heritics".

[Pathless]

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

As I don't understand your government setup may I ask what the significance was of Eisenhower changing his speach from 'military industrial Congressional complex' to 'military industrial complex'?

Hi Muslimwoman. I recently watched Jarecki's Why We Fight on the small screen in my scrappy little home. Did Eisenhower change the wording of his speech? I remember one of the interviewees in the film mentioning that the "military industrial complex" was more accurately represented by the inclusion of "congressional" in the phrase, but I'm not sure if that phrasing occured to the president and was left out or not. It does seem that Eisenhower was aware of the danger of the interlocking interests of the three forces, and that he did make a clear warning about it in his speech:

Originally Posted by Eisenhower

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the militaryindustrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

(emphasis mine)

Military-Industrial Complex Speech, Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1961

The implication is there for all "councils of government," and certainly it would have been better to be more specific. I guess, though, in the context of the speech, it wouldn't have made sense to call for the councils of government to guard against the influence of the military-industrial-congressional complex, because that would imply that the councils of government would need to guard against themselves. Unfortunately, this seems to be the situation that the United States is now in: the many different compartmentalized governments bickering and vying for power, and with the military-industrial-congressional complex coming out on top.

Currently, our government has upgraded to the military-industrial-congressional-executive complex, and the argument could be made that the fifth element of judicial has been integrated as well. Can the boastful greatest democracy in the world repair itself from the inside? Will Obama, the great black hope of America, steer us back on course, or will he, if elected, bring about only the superficial hope of economic recovery paid for by more brutality, war, and deceit? What about Edwards? Kucinich is right out, far out, just hanging out in congress asking people to finally give peace a chance. Clinton, forget her. She'll not change anything but the sheen and gloss of the cover-ups. McCain is respectable in some ways, but he's a military guy, and hopefully he is complex as well, but he is a member of congress--so watch out! Huckabee is downright scary in the name of Jesus. Ron Paul will get us out of war and help us with some subtle "come to Jesus" talks. Maybe he's alright, but I don't like his stance on abortion and the proper place of the Ten Commandments in public spaces like courthouses.

What is America thinking indeed? Who knows? Do most Americans think? Or do they just blindly push the buttons on their diebold voting machines to a personally i-podded and customized soundtrack of American Idol after lunch at Mickey D's?

Is America thinking? Is she having a dialogue among her peoples about who will be the 44th president of the United States?

I hear something, but I think it's just the babble from the television broadcasting--live!--the greedy thoughts of corrupt corporate capitalism.

[flowperson]

Originally Posted by Pathless

What is America thinking indeed? Who knows? Do most Americans think? Or do they just blindly push the buttons on their diebold voting machines to a personally i-podded and customized soundtrack of American Idol after lunch at Mickey D's?

Is America thinking? Is she having a dialogue among her peoples about who will be the 44th president of the United States?

I hear something, but I think it's just the babble from the television broadcasting--live!--the greedy thoughts of corrupt corporate capitalism.

That is why, my friend, I have for many years now referred to this dark unknowable force for the destruction of society as, "the military, industrial, entertainment complex".

flow....

[bob x]

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

Please explain this to me, what money? They are not selling the arms, they are giving them away. Okay it keeps your factories churning out bombs and planes but surely your taxes are paying for it all?

Surely you don't think they are concerned with whether WE, the people, make or lose any money out of it. The corporations make a great deal of money out of it. Who do you think the Bush administration works for?