what God really wants?

[dayaa]

hello everyone
i find it rather confusing that there are so many different religions. in view of the fact that there seem to be quite clearly good, bad and every degree in between amongst all religious groups of people (as well as non-religious people) there seems to be no clear indicator that there is one right religion. pretty much every religion has the same basics in some shape or form....yet they also differ quite considerably in details. most people take their religion from birth/marriage/circumstance rather than by conscientious choice, and i can't imagine that God will judge millions of decent people for being in the "wrong" religion when to be honest, it all seems as clear as mud! so where does that leave us? i wonder if God gave all of us the instinct to be aware of him and minds to think and maybe that's what we are supposed to do? so what is the relationship between God and religion? are all religions man-made using the tools God gave us? are we free to chose to "go it alone" with our own thoughts or to follow any religion which makes most sense to us whilst still retaining the right to free thought....the right to disagree with certain concepts within the religion of our choice? i would appreciate comments from members of all religions as to how they view other beliefs and how they understand plurality in religion. thankyou.

[earl]

Hi dayaa & welcome to CR. Darn good questions & loving conceptualizing the way I do, more'n likely I'll return to this post & mull it over more. But, frankly right now I'm of the mind to simply say all religion essentially attempts to help folks answer 2 basic questions: first one stated once by Albert Einstein,"is the universe a firendly place?". And "do I belong?" Have a good one, (oh, actually would add a third one-helps us "love thy neighbor"), Earl

[human1111]

Originally Posted by dayaa

hello everyone
i find it rather confusing that there are so many different religions.

Of course. With so many cultures, so many philosophical viewpoints, it is not surprising that so many religions and philosophies have appeared. There are as many philosophies as there are philosophers...

But there is ONE science. There is one thing that sheds the light, and that is personal experience and experience of others.

i can't imagine that God will judge millions of decent people for being in the "wrong" religion when to be honest, it all seems as clear as mud!

Awareness of not-knowing is great! You know that you need to start somewhere and learn! Many peope do not know what they do not know.
It is what inside what matters, not outside (and so you are not going to be judged by your religion which is external). David fought and killed many enemies, yet he rose to highest peaks in spirituality, that shows to you that desire matters and not some external attributes. It is not what you do, but what you strive to become. Learn God's qualities and try to replicate them.

So where does that leave us?

Find a group that teaches Emperic (not philosophic or religious) wisdom, and learn from them. Make sure that they teach spirituality and not self-absorbtion into egoism. Make sure the group is not a cult with ulterior motives and is led by really experts. Mine favourite experts are rabbi Yehuda Ashlag and Isaac Luria to name a few.

[earl]

hi dayaa. Your last question re position on religious pluralism prompted me to start a thread re it in this subforum in response. Needless to say, it's porbably very much a minoirty view, though, if ever interested I could point you to a number of websites operated by Christian devoted on interreligious dialogue and practice. Have a good one, Earl

[mynameisstephen]

Hi Dayaa

It has been well said that "religion" is man’s way of trying to deal with his guilt. Different religions have different ways of attempting to rid their adherents of sin and its consequences. They fast, pray, deny themselves legitimate pleasures, or chasten themselves, often to a point of inflicting pain. They do this because they have a concept of what they think God (or "the gods") is like, so they seek to establish their own righteousness, being "ignorant of God’s righteousness." The Good News of the Christian faith is that no one need suffer the pains of religious works. Christ’s blood can cleanse our conscience from the "dead works" of religion (Hebrews 9:14). Jesus took our punishment upon Himself, and He is the only One who can save us from sin and death. See Acts 4:12 and John 14:6.

[path_of_one]

Originally Posted by dayaa

i find it rather confusing that there are so many different religions. in view of the fact that there seem to be quite clearly good, bad and every degree in between amongst all religious groups of people (as well as non-religious people) there seems to be no clear indicator that there is one right religion. pretty much every religion has the same basics in some shape or form....yet they also differ quite considerably in details.

I agree. There is religion, and then there is spirituality. One is social, the other personal. Because religions are social phenomenon, they will necessarily have many of the same basics, such as moral codes and ways to help reduce people's stress. Religion in all cultures serves certain functions in society, hence the same basics. At the same time, religion is influenced by cultural, historical, and lingusitic contexts, so the details will differ a lot. The biggest factor in how alike/different religions are is to look at the social organization and economy of the related culture. Hunter-gatherer, nature-oriented cultures, for example, almost invariably have animistic, earth-based religions that have shamans, a spiritual otherworld, frequently reincarnation with transmigration (humans can become non-human), and they see non-humans as persons with spirits (including animals, trees, places, etc.). With agriculture and chiefdoms and early states comes polytheistic religions with pantheons, and generally there are god/desses in charge of everything important to folks-fertility and the harvest, marriage and family, etc. Each of these trends makes lots of sense within the structure and organization of the societies in question. Monotheism only comes about with agricultural, state-based societies. As there is consolidation in political and economic power, there is a shift toward belief systems with consolidation of supernatural power (one God).

most people take their religion from birth/marriage/circumstance rather than by conscientious choice, and i can't imagine that God will judge millions of decent people for being in the "wrong" religion when to be honest, it all seems as clear as mud! so where does that leave us?

I agree. I do not think God judges us based on religion, but rather based on our hearts. Religion is a social category; our spiritual life is what matters. I actually don't think it's so much of a literal judgment sending us to literal places (heaven or hell), but rather that both are states of being, and it is really up to us whether we cultivate our spirituality and hence enter the state of being with the Divine, or whether we do not and remain in the state of being without the Divine (in hell). In short, I think we get that which we've prepared our souls to receive. If we've prepared ourselves in spiritual matters, we receive communion with the Divine- and this might take different forms depending on what we have embraced- the Christian heaven, nirvana, the Summerlands. If we've prepared ourselves only for a physical, earthly existence, we will be unable to commune with the Divine, because we have chosen this world over the spiritual world.

i wonder if God gave all of us the instinct to be aware of him and minds to think and maybe that's what we are supposed to do?

Yes. That pretty much sums up my take on it. Most of us will find one or another religion comforting, useful to guide us and give us fellowship, and helpful in our understanding of the Divine. Some of us will not find religion all that useful, and will forge our own way based on our spiritual experience, creating a religion of one.

so what is the relationship between God and religion? are all religions man-made using the tools God gave us?

I think there is more of a relationship between society and religion than between God and religion. Religion is a social phenomenon that seeks to meet certain social needs and is focused on the social experience and expression of the Divine. I don't think God has exclusive ties to any religion, however. I think God interacts with people, not societies. So basically, a bunch of individuals from similar cultures/backgrounds/personalities experience the Divine, then meet up with each other and find out their experiences are similar, and thus create a social phenomenon that becomes formalized and organized as religion. But at the heart of religion are those personal, individual experiences.

are we free to chose to "go it alone" with our own thoughts or to follow any religion which makes most sense to us whilst still retaining the right to free thought....the right to disagree with certain concepts within the religion of our choice?

I think so, as my name suggests. I just think that because the majority of people out there are extroverted, social creatures, they find religion useful and meaningful. Any religion has tremendous diversity of thought and practice within it, though. Even individual churches have more diversity within the beliefs and practices of its congregation than between churches. And there are some of us, like me, that aren't much into organized religion. We may follow certain traditions or teachings, but rather than being organized socially with a religious leader, we just study many different traditions and pull together that which resonates with our own experience of the Divine.

[ISFP]

dayaa-

you ask some great questions, and path_of_one has given (as per usual!) wonderful answers.

i've struggled with trying to figure out which religion is "right" for years, and have wondered how on earth God expects us to know which one is right. i feel that if God intended for mankind to be of one religion, He would have arranged so that there was indeed one religion common to man. as it is, there are many.

you've pretty much answered your own questions, dayaa.

we may not have one religion in common, but most people have a sense of the spiritual and a desire to commune with whatever, for them, lies behind that sense. learn as much as you can about religion and spirituality, and get in touch with your own spiritual side. if you find a religious tradition that speaks to you, that's fine. if you don't, that's also fine.

we each learn something different from the experience of being alive and asking questions. your journey is your own, cheesy as that may sound. no person has the same story or the same spiritual needs. go with what feels meaningful to you.

[dayaa]

hello again
thanks for all nice replies
i had another thought this afternoon on the same subject.
me too, for years i have been struggling with the question of which is the right religion and go round and round in confused circles and continue to find that nothing is clear.....maybe the whole point is that God does not want to be clear!
somewhere on here in a different thread someone commented that the purpose of life is to try to understand the purpose of life. that sort of makes sense to me. i am soooooooo happy to have found this site! for the first time ever i am beginning to feel that i am not mad because i don't fit in. thanks to all who are responsible for this site

[Faithfulservant]

From a Christian standpoint.. I really believe that He who seeks shall find.. If you are truly seeking Him you will find Him.

[Geist]

Hi dayaa,

Its clear to me that God be it male or Female or both is a perant to all of us. And if you keep that in mind he/she wants the best for us like any perant does and so there is no wrong religion and no wrong faith or concepts whatever you feel comfartable with so will God he/she will not mind what you do and no matter what mistakes you make on the road of life she/he will forgive you because thats what perants do they help you and give you a push in the right direction now and then. If your unsure which religion is right look deep within and find it in your own soul. I have no religion I can't find comfort in one so I just learn from the teachings of all and put to use the ones that make sense to me and maybe this is what you need to try aswell.

[YO-ELEVEN-11]

Only GOD knows the "true" answer to that question.
The rest is just theory.
The best we can do is stay on GOD'S good side and wait for that answer.

[cavalier]

Originally Posted by dayaa

somewhere on here in a different thread someone commented that the purpose of life is to try to understand the purpose of life.

reminds me of something. I think it was Master Dogen who in Shobogenzo wrote words to the effect that, our perfection is in the pursuit of perfection.

Perhaps someone could clarify/confirm.

[Thaika]

If the believer understood the meaning of the saying 'the color of the water is the color of the receptacle', he would admit the validity of all beliefs and he would recognise God in every form and every object of faith. - Ibn ArabiFusûs al-Hikam

[Eudaimonist]

Originally Posted by cavalier

reminds me of something. I think it was Master Dogen who in Shobogenzo wrote words to the effect that, our perfection is in the pursuit of perfection.

Perhaps someone could clarify/confirm.

I can't confirm that he said this, but it happens to be my view.


eudaimonia,

Mark

[RubySera_Martin]

It's been good reading your answers and ideas, esp. the idea that it is okay not being part of organized religion. I'm not sure I've got anything to add. I was born into a community that was sure beyond a shadow of a doubt that it had a monopoly on Truth. Due to its inability to accommodate me as I am I have left that community. I have not yet found a religious community where I feel comfortable though Nature and Christianity speak best to my soul. Right now I sit at my computer in my basement apartment with a wonderful view through the window into the backyard and beyond. The Blue Beyond is clear at the moment and it is framed by green trees and a cedar hedge. Right square in the middle is the white half-moon of an early summer evening when the sun is still high. This is my church, my shrine, or whatever. Does God like it? I would definitely hope so. I am admiring his/her/its wonderful work of art. Well, I don't know if God cares about people's opinions like we humans do but this beauty nurtures my spirit. That is what matters to me. I believe this is what God wants for us because it makes us feel closer to God.