what God really wants?

[seattlegal]

Originally Posted by cavalier

No, nothing like that. I was making a joke. I haven't actually been worrying that I'm insane.
I guess dry English Humor isn't suited to internet forums.

I got the joke. I was making a joke about dry English Humor.

[cavalier]

Originally Posted by seattlegal

I got the joke. I was making a joke about dry English Humor.

and there's me feeling bad cause I thought you were being all sincere

[RubySera_Martin]

Originally Posted by flowperson

G-d is beauty. Nature is beauty. Maybe we're all ending up to be what some call pagans, but is that a bad thing ?

I don't think so, not as long as we have a collective consciousness and the abilities to think about and choose what suits our individual circumstances.

Blessings to you Ruby Sera and welcome to CR !

PS. I was a liberal Christian all of my life and still was drummed out of the corps for thinking differently and having the impetus to write about it; and then, horror of horrors, to try and enlist others in that belief. Negative reactions always indicate to me that I must be doing something right. You continue on your quest and do not look back.

flow....

Thanks for the welcome and blessing. It's good to hear that not even liberal Christianity is immune to the evils of prejudice and ostrasism. Maybe that's just how people are. I think the question of this thread was what religion does God want of us, and you ask if it were a bad thing for all of us to be pagan. So long as we can live in peace and harmony with each other regardless of different interpretations of the various experiences and phenomena and ideas and personalities, I don't think God cares exactly what religion we have.

I've heard some Christians oppose nature worship. I don't know if anybody worships nature--I have yet to hear of anybody who does. But nature nurtures the soul. Its beauty, power, intricateness, there is no end of the different shapes and sizes and colours and textures of nature.

Last week we were having a thunder storm. Except there was no storm. Lightening flashed and thunder crashed and I just stood out on the driveway taking it all in. The landlady and her daughter came home while I was out there. The mother asked if I am enjoying the weather. I said, "Yes. It's God." Later the daughter explained that the lightening and thunder is caused by friction when the clouds rub together. I'm not sure that I have it straight exactly how she meant, but in my mind she was applying a rational scientific explanation and I just wanted to cherish the sense of awe and power the thunder and lightening inspired in me. It felt like I was part of the raw elements that make up this planet. She probably thought I was steeped in archaic superstition. In a way I was, but it was an informed choice I made because it nurtured my spirit.

[flowperson]

Originally Posted by cavalier

Hey flow.
Something you wrote interested me, I guess in this post I might be taking it a bit/a lot more literally than you ever intended. I hope you'll excuse that. I realise that you may not agree with what I'm arguing against.

Is this what it's all about? Choosing what suits us best? Quahom illustrated the story of Enoch, a man who God loved because he

It's not just Enoch, what about Jonah who God punished because he took his own path.

If we simply think about what suits us best, we put ourselves, but that is a position which should be reserved for God.

An example:
A few years ago I spent a year in Kenya working with the Anglican Church. On comming back to England I met with other missionaries from the same organization. Many of them said that they felt spiritually dry because in their mission church they had gone a year without a "praise and worship session". I thought to myself, "Does God really care about a praise and worship session, or does God simply care that we praise, and that we worship."Those people felt spiritually dry because they weren't able to worship in their favored way. They stopped putting God first and made their own needs and comforts more important.

Hey Cav:

Thanks for your response. I should have qualified my statement by making it clear that we all should follow the paradigm of making choices based upon our intuitions which flow from our individual conversations with G-d.

Over on TCPC, there is a discussion going on regarding the manner in which we all pray. Over there progressives are of the opinion that individual conversations with G-d constitute the most edifying form of prayer. However, other brands of religious devotion emphasize more rigorous forms of praise and worship to make G-d connections.

I myself have never felt more connected to G-d than when I have been in a gospel-singing environment, but I also relish my personal conversations with G-d and the assurance and peace which seem to flow from those instances. They guide my choice patterns when I need some help. I guess that you could say it all depends upon how you're brought up and what you're used to in your prayer and G-d conversation rituals. In other words, matters of choice and style figure into communication rituals. Seek out what works best for you and then stick to it consistently. I believe that with time you'll experience results that work for you

I don't believe that you're insane either !

flow....

[flowperson]

Ruby:
I would land on the side of your observations regarding the storm.

IMO, G-d is not a micromanager. She/He sets the systems of the world into motion and interaction, and circumstances fall out of that process that always end up being good in the long run. That's my definition of Nature.

So you were both correct to an extent. Yes, G-d set the storm and its events into motion, but does not control its events. Its events are a result of the frictions caused by the interactions of air currents, water vapor, and temperature gradients. But it is my belief that G-d is always in charge of His/Her creations, but not nesessarily the circumstances that they evoke.

flow....

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by cavalier

No, nothing like that. I was making a joke. I haven't actually been worrying that I'm insane.
I guess dry English Humor isn't suited to internet forums.

LOLROFLMAO

tell that to Brian...

[cavalier]

Originally Posted by flowperson

Seek out what works best for you and then stick to it consistently.

I would definitely agree with that, but what if, as with the people in my previous example, you find yourself in a situation where you can't do that which works best?

[wil]

not my will but thy will

[RubySera_Martin]

Originally Posted by cavalier

I would definitely agree with that, but what if, as with the people in my previous example, you find yourself in a situation where you can't do that which works best?

To this, Wil replies:

not my will but thy will

I've got a problem with that. If I follow the conversation correctly, then this refers to people who had worked in the mission field in situations that did not nurture their spiritual life. My question would be: Did God call them to the mission field or was it the church or some other human idea? How do we discern that God wills it?

Which brings us back to the original question on what God wants. Except that the question regarded whether God wants us to have the Christian religion or some other religion. In all cases, though, we are talking about discerning God's will.

Many Christians probably won't agree with me but I conclude from my own experience and the stories of other people's experiences that we must be and do that which best nourishes our own spirit.

This will look like selfishness and lack of self-denial to many Christians. Maybe it is; maybe it isn't. From a psychological perspective it makes no sense to deny myself to the point where I become a nobody. Why? Because nobody can serve God i.e. a non-person cannot do God's will. We must take care of and nurture ourselves if we hope to be in any condition to help others.

"Helping others" brings up its own questions. If we live in an affluent society far from the poverty of jungle peoples how can we help anyone? Should we not go into the mission field to the poverty and disease-ridden and aleviate their afflictions?

I will focus here on helping others in our own affluent societies. I see it as a basket in which all strands are woven together to make a complete whole. A basket is a useful item. However, if one strand is broken the rest is weakened and perhaps the whole thing will fall apart and spill the contents.

To avoid this from happening, each strand must focus much attention on self-care. The strand that would isolate itself from the other strands is little good. The strand that is so focused on serving others at cost to itself becomes weak and broken.

For this reason I think it is important, and also God's will, that we focus primarily on self-care. This will include finding a niche in society. When we find our niche in our focus on self-care we turn into guiding lights for others. Thus we draw strength from each other and support each other in the various struggles of life.

Sometimes the biggest thing a person does for me is to hold the door for me. This is especially helpful when I am feeling very discouraged and question my value as a human being. The other person's little act of holding the door validates that I am a human being worthy of respect. This can put a smile on my face. And who knows who all is encouraged to see a smiling face?

On the other hand, a person who feels dry and under-nourished spiritually very likely becomes short-tempered and sets in motion a lot of negative stuff, even if they manage to paste on an appropriate smile.

That is why I think self-care is of top priority i.e. seek ye first the kingdom of heaven and all the rest shall be added unto you.

[Quahom1]

In other words "physician, heal thyself", only works if the "doctor" has been trained by the master "Physician"...

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by RubySera_Martin

To this, Wil replies:



I've got a problem with that. If I follow the conversation correctly, then this refers to people who had worked in the mission field in situations that did not nurture their spiritual life. My question would be: Did God call them to the mission field or was it the church or some other human idea? How do we discern that God wills it?

Which brings us back to the original question on what God wants. Except that the question regarded whether God wants us to have the Christian religion or some other religion. In all cases, though, we are talking about discerning God's will.

Many Christians probably won't agree with me but I conclude from my own experience and the stories of other people's experiences that we must be and do that which best nourishes our own spirit.

This will look like selfishness and lack of self-denial to many Christians. Maybe it is; maybe it isn't. From a psychological perspective it makes no sense to deny myself to the point where I become a nobody. Why? Because nobody can serve God i.e. a non-person cannot do God's will. We must take care of and nurture ourselves if we hope to be in any condition to help others.

"Helping others" brings up its own questions. If we live in an affluent society far from the poverty of jungle peoples how can we help anyone? Should we not go into the mission field to the poverty and disease-ridden and aleviate their afflictions?

I will focus here on helping others in our own affluent societies. I see it as a basket in which all strands are woven together to make a complete whole. A basket is a useful item. However, if one strand is broken the rest is weakened and perhaps the whole thing will fall apart and spill the contents.

To avoid this from happening, each strand must focus much attention on self-care. The strand that would isolate itself from the other strands is little good. The strand that is so focused on serving others at cost to itself becomes weak and broken.

For this reason I think it is important, and also God's will, that we focus primarily on self-care. This will include finding a niche in society. When we find our niche in our focus on self-care we turn into guiding lights for others. Thus we draw strength from each other and support each other in the various struggles of life.

Sometimes the biggest thing a person does for me is to hold the door for me. This is especially helpful when I am feeling very discouraged and question my value as a human being. The other person's little act of holding the door validates that I am a human being worthy of respect. This can put a smile on my face. And who knows who all is encouraged to see a smiling face?

On the other hand, a person who feels dry and under-nourished spiritually very likely becomes short-tempered and sets in motion a lot of negative stuff, even if they manage to paste on an appropriate smile.

That is why I think self-care is of top priority i.e. seek ye first the kingdom of heaven and all the rest shall be added unto you.

Nice post Ruby.

lunamoth

[flowperson]

Wisdom and truth are wondrous things to behold, Ruby. Not that I/we have any monopoly on wisdom or truth, but your post contained a lot of both IMO. Thank you !

flow....

[cavalier]

Originally Posted by RubySera_Martin

To this, Wil replies:



I've got a problem with that. If I follow the conversation correctly, then this refers to people who had worked in the mission field in situations that did not nurture their spiritual life. My question would be: Did God call them to the mission field or was it the church or some other human idea? How do we discern that God wills it?

Which brings us back to the original question on what God wants. Except that the question regarded whether God wants us to have the Christian religion or some other religion. In all cases, though, we are talking about discerning God's will.

Many Christians probably won't agree with me but I conclude from my own experience and the stories of other people's experiences that we must be and do that which best nourishes our own spirit.

This will look like selfishness and lack of self-denial to many Christians. Maybe it is; maybe it isn't. From a psychological perspective it makes no sense to deny myself to the point where I become a nobody. Why? Because nobody can serve God i.e. a non-person cannot do God's will. We must take care of and nurture ourselves if we hope to be in any condition to help others.

"Helping others" brings up its own questions. If we live in an affluent society far from the poverty of jungle peoples how can we help anyone? Should we not go into the mission field to the poverty and disease-ridden and aleviate their afflictions?

I will focus here on helping others in our own affluent societies. I see it as a basket in which all strands are woven together to make a complete whole. A basket is a useful item. However, if one strand is broken the rest is weakened and perhaps the whole thing will fall apart and spill the contents.

To avoid this from happening, each strand must focus much attention on self-care. The strand that would isolate itself from the other strands is little good. The strand that is so focused on serving others at cost to itself becomes weak and broken.

For this reason I think it is important, and also God's will, that we focus primarily on self-care. This will include finding a niche in society. When we find our niche in our focus on self-care we turn into guiding lights for others. Thus we draw strength from each other and support each other in the various struggles of life.

Sometimes the biggest thing a person does for me is to hold the door for me. This is especially helpful when I am feeling very discouraged and question my value as a human being. The other person's little act of holding the door validates that I am a human being worthy of respect. This can put a smile on my face. And who knows who all is encouraged to see a smiling face?

On the other hand, a person who feels dry and under-nourished spiritually very likely becomes short-tempered and sets in motion a lot of negative stuff, even if they manage to paste on an appropriate smile.

That is why I think self-care is of top priority i.e. seek ye first the kingdom of heaven and all the rest shall be added unto you.

As it has with others, your ideas in this post struck a chord with me. Yet it also seems to have added to my confusion. What you have written makes sense, but then I remember Moses. One whom God used in a way that he was not comfortable with. I remember that there are other stories like this where people have to do, not what they want, but that which God wants instead.
I really hope you, or somebody, can reply to this.

[RubySera_Martin]

c

Originally Posted by cavalier

As it has with others, your ideas in this post struck a chord with me. Yet it also seems to have added to my confusion. What you have written makes sense, but then I remember Moses. One whom God used in a way that he was not comfortable with. I remember that there are other stories like this where people have to do, not what they want, but that which God wants instead.
I really hope you, or somebody, can reply to this.

I don't know if my answer is good but I have an opinion based on my personal experience. As I have shared elsewhere on this site, I lived most of my life in a horse and buggy Mennonite community. That community had clear ideas on what work was appropriate for a Christian woman like myself. However, I found no peace in any of the things they said should and would bring peace. Instead, my health broke and emotionally and spiritually I was not healthy. In short, I was a very unhappy person on the level that everyone around me could see it. After a good twenty years I had exhausted all the advice of the community and our religion and, as stated, I was broken in body and spirit. Something had to change.

The only viable change was so enormous and impossible as not to be viable in reality. But I was desperate and took the plunge. I committed myself to do whatever needed to be done to bring me inner peace and happiness. In doing this, I was throwing away or sacrificing all family and friend relationships. This does not include the few outsider friends I had; I went on the strength of those relationships and my desperate need. You mention discomfort. This was discomfort in the extreme. I call it the crucifixion, and I came out a better and different person.

We might say I'm just imagining things when I say I came out a better person. But this is not the case. In a matter of months after my change, I noticed that I was getting positive feedback from practically all the people in my life. Granted, this did not include my family and former friends, but all the new acquaintances/friends. This pattern has been consistent over the course of about seven years. Thus I conclude that only when we take care of our own needs first and foremost can we be of service and value to others.

There was a very assuring experience. Immediately after making the decision to leave the church, and putting plans in place for its fulfillment, I experienced what in Christian terms can only be understood as the New Birth. Yet it happened exactly at the point where I turned my back on God and the church and all I was taught to hold sacred. This caused major confusion for me. I lived in a maze of confusion for years to come. But of one thing I was sure--this peace and joy and liberty that was given to me in that moment was worth all the sacrifice and pain and confusion and there was nothing in heaven or on earth that could make me choose to revoke my decision. It has reversed my entire theology and philosophy of life. In these past few months I've gotten the feeling that I'm beginning to find some solid footing spiritually and emotionally, and that I am beginning to settle down in my new station in life.

Thus, meeting one's own needs, or self-care, is probably not as easy as is often depicted in some Christian circles. The way I make sense of it is like Jesus said. He said to follow him we must give up ourselves, crucify the lusts and desires of the flesh. Like I said, sacrificing all one's primary relationships is the crucifixion. Jesus promised that his yoke is easy and his burden light. That is exactly what I found. The yoke and burden did not disappear; there was still a yoke and there was still a burden, but they were bearable. He talked much about the kingdom of heaven. He said "The kingdom of heaven is within you." I realized that what I was given was the kingdom of heaven. It is the inner peace and joy and love the NT promises to the faithful. John talks about Christians being the children of light. That fits, too. It seems that the entire NT was written with this inner kingdom of heaven in mind. The church failed to get this and made rules to force this kingdom of heaven into being while all the time it is within us.

So I am like the man who found a field containing a pearl of great price, and sold everything he had in order to possess that field. I am also like the Israelites on their way to Canaan. Only the flooded river stood between them and the Promised Land. The priests had to place their trust in God and step into the water. Then the waters receded and the people crossed on dry land. I don't know where God is leading me; I only know that I must go forward. And it all started with the commitment to myself to find happiness at all costs.

[cavalier]

I need to think that over, just wanted to say thanks for the reply.