What form does the Goddess have?

[brian]

Well, for a start I'm not implying that Divinity - "the Goddess" - has an objective human form, that prances around the stars and through the galaxies with nothnig much to do.

But I am curious as to what form the Goddess takes for people here. I'm thinking particularly on Hecate, the well-rounded Earth Mother aspect of neolithic finds, and curious as to how personal romanticism takes form with it.

Basically, what does the Goddess look like to any of the neo-pagans present?

[Talia]

The Goddess is like a magic mirror, where we see only the image that suits us best.

[Elizabeth May]

We see what we want to see, no matter the real reflection. What we see is formed from our own prejudices.

[WHKeith]

I suppose I could wax lyrical (and Lyrical wouldn't like that one bit!) about mother/Goddess archetypes and such, but that's fit meat only for the left sides of our brains. No feeling, not emotion, no power, and no point, really.

At the risk of sounding obscenely cliched, I would have to say that, for me, the defining aspect of the Goddess is deep, transcendent, all-inclusive, absolute and forgiving love. This would be the love of a mother for her children, the love of the Creatrix for her creation. The kind of deep, abiding, totally accepting and non-judgemental love that too many fundamentalist Christians have forgotten, overlooked, or taken for granted as they declare their vengeful, fire-and-brimstone Calvinist God.

A very, very few times in my life, while in a deep meditative state, I've felt that love, coming from nowhere and everywhere, unbidden, complete, and truly awe-inspiring. This is perhaps the single experience that can convince a die-hard atheist of the objective reality of deistic phenomenon, and yet it is completly subjective, and cannot be adequately described. It must be personally FELT.

My transition from atheist to Wiccan occured in the grip of such an experience. I still refer to it as my "epiphiwiccany."

[brian]

I see someone has a superb eye for terrible puns.

On the whole Divinity issue - I presonally shy very much away from any form of anthropomorphic form. Divinity as genderless. It's simply because the form of Divinity I've touched upon in the past has been so uttler beyond human, so utterly beyond everything physical - beyond understanding, beyond comprehension - that I simply can't make the association with human characteristics.

Before anything imagines that I'm claiming a more objective viewpoint - actually, I guess it's the more emotionless approach - which perhaps is a reflection of myself. I still haven't figured out the "rules" for having a personal relationship with Divinity.

By that I mean the question of "Does Divinity care about the individual?" I guess intuitively I would think the answer is "yes" - that I've simply approached the issue from a difficult angle. But that hasn't settled into any coherent conscious sense as yet.

Partly it's because I take cues from Nature, and see that nature seems to work in terms of overall figures, rather than individual meaning. So if Nature is a reflection of Divinity, then does Divinity really play by entirely different rules?

Actually, in posting this I figure I can see the answer - but I'll let it go for the purposes of this thread.

[Talia]

Are you sure that Divinity is entirely genderless? If we are all part of the Goddess then the Goddess is part of all of us in whih case the Goddess has both male and female expressions. I can perfectly understand what WHKeith means about the love of the Goddess. Is it the love of a woman or mother? Its more primal and basic than that. The Goddess isnt simply everything and more.

[WHKeith]

Agreed, Talia.

Most early cultural myths have the universe start with the mating of a primeval god and goddess--most often with an Earth goddess receiving a sky god. Some tales look back further than that, to a single deity who divides itself into male and female components, and THOSE mate to produce creation.

On an anthropological level, this is usually seen as a metaphor for the bountiful Earth being inseminated by the sky (rain) and bringing forth life. Myths are understood now, though, not as poorly-remembered history or as the stories made up by primitives to "explain" scientific fact, but as stories that reveal deeper truths and archtypical meaning in life. I, personally, like the idea of male and female being inherent in all of creation, expressing themselves through infinite variety and diversity.

Whether divinity seems best as male or female is likely entirely up to you; what do you relate best to? And what you are comfortable with will have a lot to do with how well you related to your mother and father, to the God presented in church when you were growing up, and to the attitudes and prejudices of the culture you live in.

Personally, I would find a genderless deity too . . . cerebral? Too much an artificial construct, like worshipping a computer instead of a living, breathing Person who has had the experience of loving, of giving birth, or creating, of being. Personally, I tend to associate the god with the YHWH of the Bible, Someone Who is called love and loving, but Who still represents law, judgement and condemnation on some level. That, I emphasize, is for ME, the way *I* feel things, not for anyone else on these boards.

As a Wiccan, I honor in ritual both the God and the Goddess as the male and female faces of creation. I feel closer to and work more with the Goddess energies, in large part because I feel traditional patriarchal mainstream religion has been brutally suppressive of women for at least the past 3000 years, and I find Goddess-centered worship to be incredibly and wonderfully liberating--both for women, and for those men who honor the principles of full equality between the sexes.

Again, these are my personal feelings, a glimpse into why I do what I do, and are in no way intended to proselytize!

[ade-a-roni]

For me, this is what the Goddess looks like when I visualize Her:
She's usually a tallish, curvy woman who tends to vary in age depending on how I want to see Her (She usually looks somewhere between 20 and 50). She has long, slightly wavy brown hair (though the color also varies) and usually wears a long, flowy white dress. I guess I like long, flowy things. She's always smiling, even when times are rough.

And here's what She feels like:
She's both a mother figure and a friend to me, and she comforts me and helps me when I ask. Of course, sometimes She tells me I can do something without Her help, and She sits back and lets me figure it out. She's very loving and never scolds me when I do something wrong, and She always accepts me for who I am. She's also very good at healing. I feel Her presence with me all the time, particularly when I go outside and walk in the woods, gaze at the moon, see a doe and her fawns, cuddle one of my cats, etc.

And then there's the matter of my alter ego/story character Annie the Goddess of Bad Weather. She looks like a little girl with overalls and pigtails, though she's actually a young woman. She's mischievous and silly, and she loves flying through thunderstorms and pretending to be human.

[Elizabeth May]

Flying through thunderstorms sounds like great fun!

[Blue Heron]

Originally Posted by Elizabeth May

Flying through thunderstorms sounds like great fun!

For me...the Goddess and God coexist. I know many of the new age sects tend more toward Goddess worship, but for me I need both aspects.

Also you might see her as the maid, mother, and crone through out the ritual year. You can get the God as the greenman, oak king, and holly king. Again maintaining a balance in form with the aspects of the Goddess.

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[Aisling]

The only times I've ever really "seen" the Goddess have been in dreams. The first dream I had of her, I was kneeling in front of a liquid screen, where all the letters and characters of every alphabet were floating randomly. She was there, but not in human form, almost like a disembodied voice, and was telling me which letters and characters to push on the screen to make up her name.

I heard her voice, and the entire area was swathed in the brightest white light I've ever seen. I couldn't see anything except my hands and the screen in front of me, and I only heard her voice. It was a very intimate and loving experience, much like what Keith has described feeling when coming into contact with her.

Another dream I had of her was much darker and had a more ghostly feel to it. She showed up in human form, as a full-figured middle-aged woman with long, straight, black hair. We stood in a room together and she pointed towards a mirror at the far wall and told me, "Cosmic forces are coming into play, and the mirrors are becoming loud. Listen to them." It was a very upsetting experience for me, because although she seemed to care a great deal about me, and desperately wanted to tell me something, the dream had a very cold feeling to it. She in fact went on to try and show me what it felt like to be dead, and I don't really want to go into that right now, because it was very upsetting and I don't like thinking about it too much.

I think this is why I feel very drawn to Hekate, because although I feel like the Goddess is very loving and kind, I also feel the cold darkness of her other side. Hekate has been hanging around with me for about a year, and I ignored her for several months, but now I'm paying a bit more attention.

[I, Brian]

Hi Aisling, and welcome to comparative-religion.com!

Interesting to see that we have a couple of mutual friends, from different sites - you came in from WiccaUK, yes? I had a quick look at your blog site - you've got some great tastes in music. Glad to see other people even familiar with Neil Gaiman's writings as well.

Sound like fascinating dreams you're having - but you make a salient point. Many times people will ask for knowledge of certain things, but my suggestion is that many people cannot handle the "truth".

By that I mean that "revelation" is neither an easy, nor necessarily a pleasant, experience. Sometimes I've come away from such experiences feeling like my consciousness has been stretched far beyond normal limits, and perhaps that I've learned things maybe I was not ready for.

Ultimately, it all remains a strictly personal experience - and how we choose to use such information remains a strictly personal issue.

You are very creative, yes?

[Aisling]

Yes, I am a member (and moderator) at WiccaUK! I've seen you around.

Your forums are very interesting, and I'm glad I've found them. The diversity of the membership is something I look for in internet communities.

You've visited my journal at a very bad time! I was just sacked from my job for saying things online in the public eye about my workplace, even though I didn't supply the name of the company or any of the employees. I moved over to the journal you're reading now, and have started over, and I apologize for the abundance of self-deprecating entries. I promise I'll post something happy soon. :P

I agree with you about consciousness expansion. I often walk away from situations like that feeling like I wasn't ready for the lesson, or not knowing what I'm supposed to do with the information. Maybe I'll find out someday, but for now I'm just left wondering what the point is. I'm sure you understand that feeling.

You are very creative, yes?

I like to think so! I write a lot of poetry, and lately I've been feeling something brewing within me that I will probably be expressing on my journal sometime soon, though it might not be too coherent to most of the people who see it. My thoughts are so difficult to express.

[I, Brian]

Sometimes I wonder if how we deal with those experiences isn't part of our personal "test". For example, there's often an intitial excitement with new dieas, that are followed to completely irrational ends.

Then, after a few days, it settles into a very rational construct that likely extensd - even overwhelms - certain previous ideas.

Does that sound familiar?

As for the jounral - just a quick look - and shame I missed on the cmopany info.

But the creativity - I see a wider field there. You've got too much going on. Something in development for the future, I'd imagine.

[Aisling]

Originally Posted by I, Brian

Sometimes I wonder if how we deal with those experiences isn't part of our personal "test". For example, there's often an intitial excitement with new dieas, that are followed to completely irrational ends.

Then, after a few days, it settles into a very rational construct that likely extensd - even overwhelms - certain previous ideas.

Does that sound familiar?

Not really. There are certain patterns I've noticed in myself before, that have been directly caused by problems I've had with a certain family member, and I hadn't noticed these patterns until very recently. I'd explain it now, but it would take a long time and I'm just not up to it at the moment.

If you could explain what you are talking about a bit more, then I'd get a better idea of what you mean. We might be thinking of two entirely different things.

But the creativity - I see a wider field there. You've got too much going on. Something in development for the future, I'd imagine.

That's how I feel about it, like something that needs to happen is going to happen, and the pieces are fitting together in the meantime.