What do you think of Muhammed(pbuh)

[dailogue is the best]

Hello everybody,


I m a Muslim. I believe in Moses and Jesus (peace be upn them all), and a Muslim is not considesred a Muslim if he/she doesnt believe in the previous prophets.

I would like to konw how the Christian look at Muhammed (pbuh)? do they consider him God's prophet? and what do they mean when they say that Muhammed is the founder of Islam? What is the Christian perspective of Muhammed?

with my best wishes
sis, DB

[Dondi]

Wouldn't this question be better addressed in the Christianity forum? The Jews do not regard Jesus in that regard.

[dailogue is the best]

I m sorry...the thread was posted here by mistake...what can I do to take it to the Christian forum? Who can help?

[dailogue is the best]

ok!...............wait a minute! there is no need to move the thread....I would like to ask our Jews brethren too about their perspective about Muhammed(pbuh)? What is the Jewish perspective of Muhammed? do they believe in him as a prophet or not? do they regard the Quran as God's message or not? do they believe that Islam is God's religion or Muhammed's religion?

God bless you,
sis, DB

[bananabrain]

personally, i have great admiration for muhammad. he may well have been a messenger of G!D, but not one that was sent to us. it's not really for me to express an opinion outside the fact that he would not qualify for the halakhic status of prophethood, any more than jesus qualifies for the halakhic status of messiahship. nonetheless, he was clearly a towering figure and one of great inspiration and foresight and as such, worthy of enormous respect.

as for the Qur'an being G!D's message, i think that's a simplistic way of putting it. i would find it odd that of all the people on the planet, the only ones that G!D had seen fit to talk to would be us. however, that doesn't give the Qur'an an exalted place any more than it does the gospels, the tao te ching, the guru granth sahib or the book of mormon. it would seem to me that the Qur'an, however, contains far more than its fair share of the wisdom of the Divine, but that does not mean that i believe it replaces the Torah, when the Torah itself says that its commandments to the jewish people are "forever" and "eternal" - there is no reason to suspect G!D would need to change the Divine Plan, or provide the Torah only for it to be superseded.

as for whether islam is G!D's religion or muhammad's religion, i would also say that that's a simplistic way of putting it. i don't believe one can say that "G!D has a religion" - nor is there any evidence that the religion originally followed by abraham, as is claimed, was "the original islam". that is pure propaganda. it is perfectly possible for islam to be a universal religion without being THE universal religion. if it wishes to be *everyone's* religion, then this will not occur without considerable bloodshed and slaughter, just as happened to every other religion that has tried to hold universal sway. no good will come from trying to impose uniformity of belief. as i believe the Qur'an itself says, if G!D had wanted us all to believe the same thing, it could not have occurred any other way, which would lead me to believe that G!D Wishes diversity in religion.

b'shalom

bananabrain

[dailogue is the best]

hello, bananabrain,
thanks for your nice reply.... M happy you have a good image about Muhammed(pbuh)...you seem to be a good researcher....I have few question, eventough
1. you said may be Muhammed was a prophet, but not one sent to us...how do you knw?
2.why do you think God need to change the divine plan.....dont you think His message is the same with all prophets?
3.This is I think your view about Muhammed(pbuh)....what is the Jewish view?
4.the Quran tells us Moses fortold about the coming of Muhammed in the Torah?Does any text in the Torah talk about that?


God bless you,
sis DB

[Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine]

If I may answer the first of your questions to bb, the reason Muhammed (pbuh) was not sent to us is because he didn't fulfill the requirements set down for legitimacy as a prophet for the Jewish people (it's the same reason Jesus isn't considered the moshiach in almost all Jewish communities.)

bb can explain this far better than I am.

Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine

[dailogue is the best]

Originally Posted by Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine

If I may answer the first of your questions to bb, the reason Muhammed (pbuh) was not sent to us is because he didn't fulfill the requirements set down for legitimacy as a prophet for the Jewish people (it's the same reason Jesus isn't considered the moshiach in almost all Jewish communities.)

bb can explain this far better than I am.

Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine

Hello, Phyllis

could you please explain what you meant by "fulfil the requirements set down for legitimacy as a prophet for the Jewish people".....It's the first time I know about this....It semms interesting...I m looking forward for your reply....

thank you in advance
sis, DB

[bananabrain]

Originally Posted by dailogue is the best

1. you said may be Muhammed was a prophet, but not one sent to us...how do you know?

because jewish prophecy ceased in 313BCE, when the last of the jewish prophefts, haggai, zechariah and malakhi, died, all within the space of one month. less exalted forms of Divine inspiration, such as ruah ha-qodesh, continued subsequently, but these are not to be termed neviut, which is the word for prophecy. the prophecies of the Torah and TaNaKh are intended for the jewish people, not for all humanity, thus the prophets of judaism are addressing us. it is a complete, integrated message and requires neither supplement nor updating. for muhammad to have been a jewish prophet, also, he would have had to submit his claim of prophethood to the authority of the sanhedrin, as well as meet other criteria. hence it can be concluded that we do not consider his message to be intended for us by G!D.

2.why do you think God need to change the divine plan.....dont you think His message is the same with all prophets?

not at all. this is an islamic view, not a jewish one. the message of jeremiah is very different from that of joshua and the message of solomon is very different from that of ezekiel. G!D may well have different plans for different groups of people (as indeed i believe the Qur'an maintains) and the mission of the jewish people is clear: to keep the Torah and be a light to the world - *not* to convert everyone to judaism or to impose a universal vision of religion. G!D does not change, but people do, hence the need to speak to different people in different ways. do you speak to your friends differently from people you don't know? from your family? from your work colleagues? how much more so should we expect G!D to so do, Who is "closer than your jugular vein", as you guys say.

3.This is I think your view about Muhammed(pbuh)....what is the Jewish view?

there's no one jewish view, other than that he isn't a jewish prophet and hence his message does not apply to us.

4.the Quran tells us Moses fortold about the coming of Muhammed in the Torah?Does any text in the Torah talk about that?

no, because as far as we can see, moses did no such thing. in fact, anything the Qur'an has to say about the Torah would hardly be . as i understand it, the name "muhammad" is linguistically akin to one of the hebrew word meaning "desirable", so one can try and make out a case for references based on that, but the trouble with that is that you end up with some quite silly ones in NaKh, like 1 kings 20:6, ezekiel 24:16 and 24:21, to say nothing of hosea 9:6. however, it does not appear in the Torah itself as far as i am aware. if you have an example that says otherwise, i am happy to discuss it.

b'shalom

bananabrain

[dailogue is the best]

Hello, bb

I found this in the following site:Muhammad (sws) foretold in the Old Testament (The Prophet unto Like Moses)



It is stated by the Lord in the book of Deuteronomy of the Old Testament of the Bible: ‘I will raise them up a prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words into his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.’ The passage from which these words have been noted is given below:

The Lord thy God will raise up unto thee a prophet from the midst of thee, of thy Brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken; According to all that thou desiredst of the Lord thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the Lord my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not. And the Lord said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken. I will raise them up a prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words into his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.1

can you explain to me, brother, who is meant by "a prophet like unto me"? thank you...

By the way, I don't like to feel that I m trying to make you believe that Muhammed (pbuh) is the one addressed here...I don't like this feeling, and I don't want you to feel it.But I need to learn and to know...that's all...It has nothing to do with you: to believe or not.....

My best wishes, bb
sis, DB

[bananabrain]

hi DB,

"a prophet like unto thee" means that he's got to be jewish. you see the verse says "from among their brethren", which has to refer to the same group that the prophecy is addressed to. in other words, if a prophet is talking to the jews, that prophet has to be jewish. to try and make this sentence refer to muhammad is violating both its grammar and its context, i'm afraid.

b'shalom

bananabrain

[dailogue is the best]

Originally Posted by bananabrain

hi DB,

"a prophet like unto thee" means that he's got to be jewish. you see the verse says "from among their brethren", which has to refer to the same group that the prophecy is addressed to. in other words, if a prophet is talking to the jews, that prophet has to be jewish. to try and make this sentence refer to muhammad is violating both its grammar and its context, i'm afraid.

b'shalom

bananabrain

hi bb,

Thank you for clarification, brother. Actually, your answer created in many other questions that I will bother you to answer. We all know that Jesus(pbuh) was sent to the People of Israel...So, can we consider Jesus a Jewish??! I dont know ....something is unclear here.....

Concerning the prophet Muhamed(pbuh)'s message, it is a universal message to all human beings. God says:" We have not sent thee but as a universal (messanger) to men, giving them glad tidings, and warning them (against sin), but most men understand not"(34:28)

we are taught from the Quran that Muhamed (pbuh) was sent to all humanity..with all their different religions, and sects....it isnt a special message for special people.....So, his message has adressed the Jews too....

"a prophet like unto thee" doesn't necessarily mean a Jewish prophet as you said....it may have other meanings....it may mean a prophet of the same characteristic as you.....

"from among their brethren" doesn't neccessarily mean from the Jewish group...it may mean from his family tree, and Moses(pbuh) and Muhamed (pbuh) are of the same family tree...

Moreover, I see Judaism, Christianity and Islam as one message...yes, bananabrain....they are all one message....the three prophets came to call for the worship of the only and the one God....the essence of the three religions is submission to the only and the one God.....

what do you think, brother?

peace
sis, DB

[bananabrain]

hi DB,

We all know that Jesus(pbuh) was sent to the People of Israel...So, can we consider Jesus a Jewish??! I dont know ....something is unclear here.....

yes, jesus was jewish, but we don't consider him a prophet, because he did not fulfil the criteria for jewish prophecy. to us, he was a religious reformer who fell foul of the roman military authorities; unfortunately we do not have reliable evidence that things attributed to him by christian writers were anything more than later propaganda. certainly, if he said and did many of the things that were attributed to him (like public desecration of the Sabbath) then he would not qualify for prophethood. no jewish authority has ever considered him to have succeeded in this. the lack of clarity, therefore, is that we judge prophecy through a certain set of criteria and others, including muslims, use different criteria. however, only jewish criteria can be used to define a prophet within judaism.

Concerning the prophet Muhamed(pbuh)'s message, it is a universal message to all human beings. God says:" We have not sent thee but as a universal (messanger) to men, giving them glad tidings, and warning them (against sin), but most men understand not"(34:28)

that's as may be, but we did not and do not require a universal message when G!D Has already Spoken to us directly through the Torah - it would not make sense for a non-jewish prophet to be required to supplement the existing Divine Word. so muhammad may have addressed the jews, but for us, his message is superfluous - albeit i will concede that the jewish tribes of the hijaz of muhammad's time appear to have been ignorant of judaism - therefore i must conclude that his message, where it mentions "the jews", refers to these groups and these groups alone, rather than to all jews, at all times.

"a prophet like unto thee" doesn't necessarily mean a Jewish prophet as you said....it may have other meanings....it may mean a prophet of the same characteristic as you.....

yes, DB, that is *necessarily* what it means. it doesn't have other meanings, because that is what that particular use of terminology in biblical hebrew refers to. unless one is expert in the interpretation of the biblical hebrew of the Torah, one is not qualified to speculate upon what other meanings might be possible. now i can certainly tell you that *no* jewish authority since the time of muhammad has interpreted this phrase to mean what you are suggesting it means - so, basically, it doesn't mean family tree (and i have never heard it suggested that muhammad was able to trace his family tree back to moses - where is this documented?) and it doesn't mean similar in characteristic either. you can't just make up meanings for another language like that.

Moreover, I see Judaism, Christianity and Islam as one message...yes, bananabrain....they are all one message....the three prophets came to call for the worship of the only and the one God....the essence of the three religions is submission to the only and the one God.....

they cannot be all one message. judaism is not a universal religion - it is the Divine Command to the jewish people, not to everyone. therefore regardless of whether the essence is submission to G!D (and there, i suppose, i might concede it is at least partly the same) the means by which this submission is to be effected is different for jews as from everyone else. G!D Has not changed the rules, nor has the Torah been superseded - what on earth could be the reason for G!D to have a change of Mind, if we are talking about G!D for Whom time is One and all possible futures are known?

b'shalom

bananabrain

[dauer]

I never met the guy.

[dailogue is the best]

salam Dauer,

Really! havent you ever met the prophet Muhamed (pbuh)? intellectual meeting, I mean.....havent you ever read anything about him? I m really surprised... since we are in a CR forum, I think everyone here should have an idea about other religions's prophets.....

Anyway, I m sure you are going to discover a very amazing personality.......

salam Dauer,
sis, DB