What are the Differences between the Abrahamic Faiths?

[Faithfulservant]

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

Hi Faithfulservant

I am delighted to hear you don't believe in infant baptism but saddened to hear you think babies are born sinful. Yes parents must teach their children right from wrong but to commit a sin you must understand it is a sin and still do it. It is my understanding that doctors say childrens brains are not able to function in this way until they reach early teens.

May I just share an interesting bit of Egyptian psychology with you. My father in law arranged most of the work on my new apartment and I was delighted to see the name of G-d in Arabic carved into the front door. He explained to me that if anyone (Christian or Muslim) decided to break into my home to commit a crime they must first look at the name Allah. This will remind them of G-d and that what they are about to do is a sin in G-d's eyes. So if they still break in they know they are committing a sin rather than just a crime. I think that is so clever and my thanks to G-d the crime rate against homes and people in their homes in our town is virtually zero.

Salaam

Thank you for the nice story.

The point I make in saying that none are without sin is that God did not create man with the propensity to sin.. as we see in babies.. this is a result of our sin nature after the first sin was committed. Sin is disobedience to God and babies are not accountable because they do not know right from wrong.. but they still have a carnal nature that will die eventually.

May I ask where do you live?

[Abdullah]

Salaam

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

Brother Abdullah.

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

Please can you tell us your interpretation of this verse of the Quran:

Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. (2:62)

Forgive me but I see nothing here that suggests the whole world must follow the Quran.

Sure sis, here goes:

The above verse refers to people who believed in the past Prophets [before the advent of the prophet Muhammad saw] and followed them, and people of the book and sabiens of this era who have converted to Islam.

Islamic Scholars say that whoever recieves a clear message of Islam [and not just distorted propaganda one hears in the media], and rejects it, and dies rejecting, will die as a kaafir that will be condemned to hell for all eternity.

And there is ample proof of that in the Quran and Sunnah:

5.72] Certainly they disbelieve who say: Surely God, He is the Messiah, son of Mary; and the Messiah said: O Children of Israel! Serve Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Surely whoever associates (others) with Allah, then Allah has forbidden to him the garden, and his abode is the fire; and there shall be no helpers for the unjust.

2.89] And when there came to them a Book from Allah verifying that which they have, and aforetime they used to pray for victory against those who disbelieve, but when there came to them (Prophet) that which they did not recognize, they disbelieved in him; so Allah's curse is on the disbelievers

5:68 Say: O followers of the Book! you follow no good till you keep up the Taurat and the Injeel and that which is revealed to you from your Lord; and surely that which has been revealed to you from your Lord shall make many of them increase in inordinacy and unbelief; grieve not therefore for the disbelieving people.

"For any that disobey Allah and His Messenger [to the extent where their actions or beliefs constitutes to rejecting Islam/being a non-Muslim] - for them is Hell, where they will dwell forever" [ 72:23]

"Lo those who disbelieve..Allah will never forgive them, nor guide them to a straight path, accept the path to hell, where they will dwell forever..." [4/168]

"Those who reject faith..then die rejecting..Allah will not forgive them" [47/34]

Those who disbelieve [in Islam, the Quran, the Prophet Muhammed sm], among the people of the book [the Jews and the Christians] and among the idolators, will be in Hell-Fire, to dwell therein, they are the worst of creatures" [98:6]

"As for those who disbelieve...Allah will make their actions go astray" [47:1]

"But those who disbelieve will have utter ruin and He will make their actions go astray" [47:8]

"As for any of you...who die as a disbeliever, there actions will come to nothing in this world and the hereafter, they are the companions of the fire, remaining in it timelessy, forever" [2:217]

They have taken as lords beside Allah their rabbis and their monks and the Messiah son of Mary, when they were bidden to worship only One God. There is no God save Him. Be He Glorified from all that they ascribe as partner (unto Him)! [Holy Quran, 9:31]

"Allah forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with Allah is to devise a sin most heinous indeed." S. 4:48

Narrated Abu Hurairah [ra], Allah's messenger [sm] said: "By Him in Who's hands Muhammed's [SM] soul is, there is none from amongst the Jews and the Christians who hears about me and then dies withuot believing in the Message which I have been sent [the Quran], but he will be from the dwellers of the hell-fire" [Sahih Muslim, vol 1, hadith #240]

Verse: 3:8:" And whoever seeks a religion other then Islam, it will not be accepted of Him, and in the hereafter, he will be one of the losers"

Salaam.

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by Abdullah

"As for any of you...who die as a disbeliever, there actions will come to nothing in this world and the hereafter, they are the companions of the fire, remaining in it timelessy, forever" [2:217].

I have given the whole verse for people to see. Does this not refer to apostacy from Islam?

2:217 They will ask thee about fighting in the sacred month.Asad(2,202) [202] Say: "Fighting in it is an awesome thing; but turning men away from the path of God and denying Him, and [turning them away from] the Inviolable House of Worship and expelling its people there from - [all this] is yet more awesome in the sight of God, since oppression is more awesome than killing." [Your enemies] will not cease to fight against you till they have turned you away from your faith, if they can. But if any of you should turn away from his faith and die as a denier of the truth - these it is whose works will go for nought in this world and in the life to come; and these it is who are destined for the fire, therein to abide.

يَسْأَلُونَكَ عَنِ الشَّهْرِ الْحَرَامِ قِتَالٍ فِيهِ قُلْ قِتَالٌ فِيهِ كَبِيرٌ وَصَدٌّ عَن سَبِيلِ اللّهِ وَكُفْرٌ بِهِ وَالْمَسْجِدِ الْحَرَامِ وَإِخْرَاجُ أَهْلِهِ مِنْهُ أَكْبَرُ عِندَ اللّهِ وَالْفِتْنَةُ أَكْبَرُ مِنَ الْقَتْلِ وَلاَ يَزَالُونَ يُقَاتِلُونَكُمْ حَتَّىَ يَرُدُّوكُمْ عَن دِينِكُمْ إِنِ اسْتَطَاعُواْ وَمَن يَرْتَدِدْ مِنكُمْ عَن دِينِهِ فَيَمُتْ وَهُوَ كَافِرٌ فَأُوْلَـئِكَ حَبِطَتْ أَعْمَالُهُمْ فِي الدُّنْيَا وَالآخِرَةِ وَأُوْلَـئِكَ أَصْحَابُ النَّارِ هُمْ فِيهَا خَالِدُونَ (2:217)

Originally Posted by Abdullah

Verse: 3:8:" And whoever seeks a religion other then Islam, it will not be accepted of Him, and in the hereafter, he will be one of the losers".

Forgive me brother but if that is what your Quran says then we have completely different versions of the Quran:

3:8 "O our Sustainer! Let not our hearts swerve from the truth after Thou hast guided us; and bestow upon us the gift of Thy grace: verily, Thou art the [true] Giver of Gifts.

رَبَّنَا لاَ تُزِغْ قُلُوبَنَا بَعْدَ إِذْ هَدَيْتَنَا وَهَبْ لَنَا مِن لَّدُنكَ رَحْمَةً إِنَّكَ أَنتَ الْوَهَّابُ (3:8)

003.008YUSUFALI: "Our Lord!" (they say), "Let not our hearts deviate now after Thou hast guided us, but grant us mercy from Thine own Presence; for Thou art the Grantor of bounties without measure.
PICKTHAL: Our Lord! Cause not our hearts to stray after Thou hast guided us, and bestow upon us mercy from Thy Presence. Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Bestower.
SHAKIR: Our Lord! make not our hearts to deviate after Thou hast guided us aright, and grant us from Thee mercy; surely Thou art the most liberal Giver.

Oops got to go, mum in law having an emergency. Will finish off later.

Salaam.[/quote]

[Abdullah]

Salaam sister muslimwoman

If you put the 'apostacy' context verse within the context of the rest of the evidence I posted up, then it should be apperant that any person who dies as a disbeliever [kaafir], wether he/she rejected Islam by apostasising or by not even ever embracing it, shall suffer the same fate.

I apologise for a wrong reference I gave, the correct ref is not 3:8 but 3:85

I do not wish to post of topic material in this thread so I'll just show you what the views of the Islamic Scholars are on this issue, and what kind of differences they have on it:

Sheikh Ahmad Kutty, a senior lecturer and an Islamic scholar at the Islamic Institute of Toronto, Ontario, Canada, states:

“Allah tells us in the Qur’an, “We are not in the habit of punishing a nation until We have sent a messenger ( to them).” (Al-Isra’: 15) bidding them of what they must be doing and forbidding them of what they must be refraining from. Based on numerous such verses in the Qur’an, great scholars such as Imam Al-Ghazali have stated that those who have not heard of the message of the Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him, will not be punished for failing to accept his message. To punish people for failing to accept a message that they know nothing about is utterly contrary to the divine justice which is at once immaculate and beyond question.

While it is true that they will not be punished for their failure to accept the message of Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him, however, one must not conclude from this they are totally free of any accountability for their actions. Allah tells us repeatedly in the Qur’an that He has sent a messenger in every nation with the right guidance, and that each messenger spoke the language of the people he was sent to.

Furthermore, we are also told that Allah has created every human being with an innate knowledge of what is good for it and what is bad for it, and that everyone has a responsibility to foster such virtues that his nature recognizes as good and shun those that are abhorrent. (See Surat Ash-Shams: 7-9 )

To conclude: Those who have not heard of the message of the Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him, will be judged by Allah by the message they have received from earlier prophets and messengers that were sent to them as well as by the innate sense of good and bad embedded in their own nature.” (Quoted, with slight modifications, from: Islamic Institute of Toronto)

IslamonLine.net

The Arabs, who died before the advent of Islam will enter Paradise if they had believed in the Divine Messages sent to them. However, those who did not believe in those Messages are disbelievers and they will not enter Paradise.

However, there is disagreement among Muslim scholars regarding those who had no access to the call of any Prophet during their lifetime.

Some Muslim scholars maintain that this group of people should have pondered over Allah’s Creation till they reach the truth. If they managed to reach the truth by their deep thinking, then they will be spared Allah’s Punishment, but not vice versa.

Other Muslim scholars state that people are to adhere to religious ordinances and to proclaim faith only if Allah Almighty sends them a divine legislation through a Messenger or a Prophet. This group backed their view by citing the following verse: “We never punish until We have sent a messenger.” (Al-Isra’: 15)

IslamonLine.net

The word Kafir is derived from the root word ‘Kufr’ which means to deny. Any person who is not a Muslim is a Kaafir as he rejects the religion of Islam – its beliefs, principles and practices.

and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best

Mufti Ebrahim Desai

Ask-Imam.com [9939] what is kafir? Is it forbidden to call non-Muslims as “kafirs”? Is this statement correct or the usage of the word “kafir” correct: “Saint Paul is a kafir name, and Ahmed is a Muslim name.”

words of Shaykh Hamza Yusuf:

I interjected at one point and mentioned Imam al- Ghazzali’s orthodox and yet satisfying view presented in his intriguing Faisal al-tafriqah that suggests that the majority of Christians and Jews and even peoples of other faiths and creeds could ultimately gain salvation since they did not reject a true and compelling presentation of Islam.

What they rejected rather was the tragic misrepresentation through distortion or the bad behavior of those who claimed to follow the true teachings of the Prophet Muhammad. Thus, according to Imam al-Ghazzali, this allowed for God’s ultimate forgiveness for the masses of humanity.

Learn about Islam--Beliefnet.com

Salaam

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by Faithfulservant

May I ask where do you live?

I live in the Nile Delta region of Egypt.

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by Abdullah

“Allah tells us in the Qur’an, “We are not in the habit of punishing a nation until We have sent a messenger ( to them).” (Al-Isra’: 15) bidding them of what they must be doing and forbidding them of what they must be refraining from.

wa aleykum salaam brother

Really I think I should put myself in a box and post myself to hell now. As a Christian I never believed in Jesus (pbuh) as the son of G-d, so they said I wasn't a Christian even though I had such strong faith in G-d. As a Muslim I am rejected because I believe there are good Jewish people that follow the requirements given to them by G-d (as well as those that do not), good Christians that follow the teachings of G-d through Jesus (pbuh), as well as all the good people that follow faiths I have never even heard of and I believe Muslims should follow the Quran and not the scholars. How many stamps do you think my box will need?

Originally Posted by Abdullah

Allah tells us repeatedly in the Qur’an that He has sent a messenger in every nation with the right guidance, and that each messenger spoke the language of the people he was sent to.

One would conclude from this verse that there are numerous groups of people following their given religion in this world and that no one religion is the only one to be accepted by Allah. I doubt whether the eskimoes spoke Arabic.

Originally Posted by Abdullah

Furthermore, we are also told that Allah has created every human being with an innate knowledge of what is good for it and what is bad for it, and that everyone has a responsibility to foster such virtues that his nature recognizes as good and shun those that are abhorrent. (See Surat Ash-Shams: 7-9 )

No argument there and my innate knowledge tells me to trust only the Quran, not all the heresay that followed.

Originally Posted by Abdullah

Some Muslim scholars maintain that this group of people should have pondered over Allah’s Creation till they reach the truth. If they managed to reach the truth by their deep thinking, then they will be spared Allah’s Punishment, but not vice versa.

Other Muslim scholars state that people are to adhere to religious ordinances and to proclaim faith only if Allah Almighty sends them a divine legislation through a Messenger or a Prophet. This group backed their view by citing the following verse: “We never punish until We have sent a messenger.” (Al-Isra’: 15)

Surely if they have pondered over Allah's creation till they reach the truth, then they have been sent a messenger - even if that is an angel to guide their hearts.


Now we jump from not punishing until the people get a messenger to the messenger must be the Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) - how did we make the leap?

The Quran says "And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers." [Aal ‘Imraan 3:85]

It is my understanding that the word Islam simply means surrender/submission to G-d. There are plenty of people in the world who submit to G-d but are not Muslim (even the word Muslim - it means a believer in Islam = submission to G-d).

How on earth was a small tribe in the rainforests going to hear about Islam?

Salaam

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by Abdullah

The above verse refers to people who believed in the past Prophets [before the advent of the prophet Muhammad saw] and followed them, and people of the book and sabiens of this era who have converted to Islam.

I hate to be pedantic but surely if that was correct the Quran would refer to "people of the book and sabiens of this era who have converted to Islam"?

Don't get me wrong, I believe anyone that places a partner with G-d is going somewhere very hot and nasty but the Quran was "perfected" before the death of the Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) and we both know G-d knows exactly what He is talking about and doesn't make mistakes.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

wa aleykum salaam brother

Really I think I should put myself in a box and post myself to hell now. As a Christian I never believed in Jesus (pbuh) as the son of G-d, so they said I wasn't a Christian even though I had such strong faith in G-d. As a Muslim I am rejected because I believe there are good Jewish people that follow the requirements given to them by G-d (as well as those that do not), good Christians that follow the teachings of G-d through Jesus (pbuh), as well as all the good people that follow faiths I have never even heard of and I believe Muslims should follow the Quran and not the scholars. How many stamps do you think my box will need?



One would conclude from this verse that there are numerous groups of people following their given religion in this world and that no one religion is the only one to be accepted by Allah. I doubt whether the eskimoes spoke Arabic.



No argument there and my innate knowledge tells me to trust only the Quran, not all the heresay that followed.



Surely if they have pondered over Allah's creation till they reach the truth, then they have been sent a messenger - even if that is an angel to guide their hearts.


Now we jump from not punishing until the people get a messenger to the messenger must be the Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) - how did we make the leap?

The Quran says "And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers." [Aal ‘Imraan 3:85]

It is my understanding that the word Islam simply means surrender/submission to G-d. There are plenty of people in the world who submit to G-d but are not Muslim (even the word Muslim - it means a believer in Islam = submission to G-d).

How on earth was a small tribe in the rainforests going to hear about Islam?

Salaam

No, you simply found what path (for you) leads you to the Almighty. I can see no wrong in that. A human searches for God, and God shall be found.

To Christians, to begin to search for God, finds God running to catch him...

It is all a matter of semantics.

I would like to meet a "Moor", like in Robin Hood. Yes Robin of Loxley was a backwoods feudal lord to be, when he was young, but the adventures of he and the "Moor" together, seasoned both.

The "hero" said he would die for the girl, but he'd said the same thing to the "Moor", time and time again, even though they angered eachother.

And I absolutely LOVE, the reply the "Moor" made to the little girl when she asked if God painted him.

"Allah in His infinit wisdom, loves wonderous variety". na na na na na nya...lol

v/r

Joshua

[Muslimwoman]

Thank you so much for your post Quahom1. I was starting to despair I must admit. It seems I can neither agree with other religions nor people from my own on this site. Your post has reminded me that it is my faith in G-d that matters and my desire to please Him by being the best person I know how.

In Islam we are taught if you take one step to Allah, He takes two steps toward you. I just love that, it gives me so much comfort.

Salaam

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

Thank you so much for your post Quahom1. I was starting to despair I must admit. It seems I can neither agree with other religions nor people from my own on this site. Your post has reminded me that it is my faith in G-d that matters and my desire to please Him by being the best person I know how.

In Islam we are taught if you take one step to Allah, He takes two steps toward you. I just love that, it gives me so much comfort.

Salaam

See? We help eachother when it is most needed. Next time...your turn lol.

v/r

Joshua

God is kind, and has a strange sense of humor...

[zeras]

Originally Posted by aburaees

I'm going to keep it simple

The difference is Jesus...

One group rejects him completely
One group accepts him as the Messiah and their God
One group accepts him as the Messiah and a great Prophet.

.

Perfect, simple and clean answer.
Also, we do belive and also know that the OT and NT have been changed,
this is very serious . We as muslims do not want to go to the level, as soon as man changes even a singel sound it is noticed. you see the Qu'ran has it's own catagory of arabic language, why?? well, it is very diffrent, how?? well everything is poetic by sound and words. And yes, arabic is a language you can not fool around with, even today, I know lil kids about the age of 6-7 that recite the Qu'ran fully, word and by the syllabos, if a sound is inncorrect, they are corrected and are told to go back and restudy again and again, untill they can recite everything, word, sound everything. Plus, I've not found one book one earth, that is writen like the Qu'ran. It's kind of funny when people say change the Qu'ran or update it, lol!
ahh, if we were to add a singel thing to it is #1 noticable, #2 we wrote it our word, not the words that God has said. #3 we would be damned to the hell fire, for missguiding ourselvs and those around us. #4 The whole texts would not make sence, because everything is also historically checked too, soo .

I belive in the prophet Jesus, but I do not! Worship him!
I worship what he has worshiped, which is God, alone, the all mighty.
God is unique and there is nothing that ever come close to his comparasion.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by zeras

Perfect, simple and clean answer.
Also, we do belive and also know that the OT and NT have been changed,
this is very serious . We as muslims do not want to go to the level, as soon as man changes even a singel sound it is noticed. you see the Qu'ran has it's own catagory of arabic language, why?? well, it is very diffrent, how?? well everything is poetic by sound and words. And yes, arabic is a language you can not fool around with, even today, I know lil kids about the age of 6-7 that recite the Qu'ran fully, word and by the syllabos, if a sound is inncorrect, they are corrected and are told to go back and restudy again and again, untill they can recite everything, word, sound everything. Plus, I've not found one book one earth, that is writen like the Qu'ran. It's kind of funny when people say change the Qu'ran or update it, lol!
ahh, if we were to add a singel thing to it is #1 noticable, #2 we wrote it our word, not the words that God has said. #3 we would be damned to the hell fire, for missguiding ourselvs and those around us. #4 The whole texts would not make sence, because everything is also historically checked too, soo .

I belive in the prophet Jesus, but I do not! Worship him!
I worship what he has worshiped, which is God, alone, the all mighty.
God is unique and there is nothing that ever come close to his comparasion.

Do you now? I'd like (at your leasure) to see these "changes".

In the mean time this is a place of comparrison...not a place of condemnation...

of course you understand that.

v/r

Joshua

edit: hit and run Z? Not conducive to the betterment of society...let alone this forum...

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by zeras

Perfect, simple and clean answer.
Also, we do belive and also know that the OT and NT have been changed,
this is very serious . We as muslims do not want to go to the level, as soon as man changes even a singel sound it is noticed. you see the Qu'ran has it's own catagory of arabic language, why?? well, it is very diffrent, how?? well everything is poetic by sound and words. And yes, arabic is a language you can not fool around with, even today, I know lil kids about the age of 6-7 that recite the Qu'ran fully, word and by the syllabos, if a sound is inncorrect, they are corrected and are told to go back and restudy again and again, untill they can recite everything, word, sound everything. Plus, I've not found one book one earth, that is writen like the Qu'ran. It's kind of funny when people say change the Qu'ran or update it, lol!
ahh, if we were to add a singel thing to it is #1 noticable, #2 we wrote it our word, not the words that God has said. #3 we would be damned to the hell fire, for missguiding ourselvs and those around us. #4 The whole texts would not make sence, because everything is also historically checked too, soo .

I belive in the prophet Jesus, but I do not! Worship him!
I worship what he has worshiped, which is God, alone, the all mighty.
God is unique and there is nothing that ever come close to his comparasion.

Who is we, Z? The Muslims in Detroit don't think the way you do, nor do the Muslims in Toledo or Greenbelt, or LA.

They want to well, it doesn't matter, you apparently do not want it. Not everyone believes like you.

So, that means they are all wrong? Just curious.

v/r

Joshua

edit: ah, St. Alphonsus school of learning...where my hand was tied behind my back until I learned to be "right handed", and if I used the wrong hand I got rulers across the knuckles, or a fist in the face, by the "clerics", yes I understand your "learning"...well.

Never again...

See, it's hard to accept, easy to identify... Been there/done that/don't ever want to see that again.

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

See? We help eachother when it is most needed. Next time...your turn lol.

v/r

Joshua

God is kind, and has a strange sense of humor...

Just give a nod at the appropriate time, I and my big sword are here to defend you (unless it's about the Jesus (pbuh) being the son of G-d issue - then you're on your own I'm afraid)

Salaam

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Muslimwoman

Just give a nod at the appropriate time, I and my big sword are here to defend you (unless it's about the Jesus (pbuh) being the son of G-d issue - then you're on your own I'm afraid)

Salaam

Wouldn't do that to you sative. (he who saves?)

v/r

Joshua