What about the book of Daniel?

[InChristAlways]

Dan 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute/defile the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the "Continual", and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate

Mark 13:14 `And when ye may see the abomination of the desolation, that was spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (whoever is reading let him understand), then those in Judea, let them flee to the mountains;

I have a question on Daniel.

Daniel is given a word about a Great Warfare/Host. This same word is also used in Daniel 8. Is this event the same event as Daniel 8, 11/12, Olivet Discourse and Revelation, as the Abomination mentioned in the olivet discourse is also the same one in Daniel 11:31 but for some reason, a lot believe that event happened during "Maccabees" but I don't see how if Jesus prophecied it to happen future to Him. Or is all of Daniel 11/12 a dual prophecy on Jerusalem? Thanks.

Daniel 10:1 In the third year of Cyrus king of Persia, a thing/word/matter is revealed to Daniel, whose name is called Belteshazzar, and true is the thing/word/matter and great warfare/host [#06635]: and he hath understood the thing, and hath understanding about the appearance.

Daniel 8:10 yea, it/she grows up/magnified unto the host [#06635] of the heavens, and cast toward earth of/from the host [#06635], and of/from the stars, and [she] is trampling them down.

Daniel 8:11 And unto prince/chief [#08269] of the host it/he does grow up/is magnifies himself, and by/from him exaltingly lifted up hath been the continual, and [he is?] is thrown down place of his sanctuary.

Daniel 12: 1 "At that time Michael shall stand up, The great prince [#08269] who stands [watch] over the sons of your people; 6 And [one] said to the man clothed in linen, who [was] above the waters of the river, "How long shall the fulfillment of these wonders [be?"]........

There is also a "Great War/Host" in revelation, which I believe is fulfilling Isaiah 28/Daniel 11/12.

Reve 9: 3 Then out of the smoke locusts came upon the earth. And to them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power. 4 They were commanded not to harm the grass of the earth, or any green thing, or any tree, but only those men who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads. ................... 13 Then the sixth angel sounded: And I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God, 14 saying to the sixth angel who had the trumpet, "Release the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates." 15 So the four angels, who had been prepared for the hour and day and month and year, were released to kill a third of mankind. 16 Nowthe number of the army of the horsemen [was] two hundred million; I heard the number of them.

Reve 16:14 For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, [which] go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the Battle of that Great Day of God Almighty. 15 "Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed [is] he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame."

[Quahom1]

I believe you've just answered your own question. If you recall, Jesus made it clear that just as it was in Noah's time, so it will be again. Life goes on, marriages happen, babies are born, people make merry...dual meanings to prophecy, or prophecy with two time tables...sure looks that way, nor would it be the first time.

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Q

[mee]

Ohhhh yes ,we are certainly living in thrilling times

The( disgusting thing that causes desolation) in our modern times is in a place where it should not be

Interestingly, the Hebrew word translated "disgusting thing" in Daniel is shiq·quts In the Bible, this word is used principally of idols and idolatry. The so called people of God ,have put their trust in this thing , instead of Gods kingdom .its in a place it should not be

[InChristAlways]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

I believe you've just answered your own question. If you recall, Jesus made it clear that just as it was in Noah's time, so it will be again. Life goes on, marriages happen, babies are born, people make merry...dual meanings to prophecy, or prophecy with two time tables...sure looks that way, nor would it be the first time.

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Q

Hi Q. I am wondering why the jews [and a number of christians] feel Daniel 11 concerned maccabees and not the first century destruction of their Temple after Jesus was crucified and ascended. The Great Day of the Lord doesn't happen until after the messiah comes and preaches the "good news" [Isaiah 61/Malachi 4].
Another words, the jewish religion is still awaiting on their own messiah, not ours, correct?
Any thoughts?

I have a question on Daniel.

Daniel is given a word about a Great Warfare/Host. This same word is also used in Daniel 8. Is this event the same event as Daniel 8, 11/12, Olivet Discourse and Revelation, as the Abomination mentioned in the olivet discourse is also the same one in Daniel 11:31 but for some reason, a lot believe that event happened during "Maccabees" but I don't see how if Jesus prophecied it to happen future to Him. Or is all of Daniel 11/12 a dual prophecy on Jerusalem? Thanks.

Daniel 10:1 In the third year of Cyrus king of Persia, a thing/word/matter is revealed to Daniel, whose name is called Belteshazzar, and true is the thing/word/matter and great warfare/host [#06635]: and he hath understood the thing, and hath understanding about the appearance.

Daniel 8:10 yea, it/she grows up/magnified unto the host [#06635] of the heavens, and cast toward earth of/from the host [#06635], and of/from the stars, and [she] is trampling them down.

Daniel 8:11 And unto prince/chief [#08269] of the host it/he does grow up/is magnifies himself, and by/from him exaltingly lifted up hath been the continual, and [he is?] is thrown down place of his sanctuary.

Daniel 12: 1 "At that time Michael shall stand up, The great prince [#08269] who stands [watch] over the sons of your people; 6 And [one] said to the man clothed in linen, who [was] above the waters of the river, "How long shall the fulfillment of these wonders [be?"]........

There is also a "Great War/Host" in revelation, which I believe is fulfilling Isaiah 28/Daniel 11/12.

Reve 9: 3 Then out of the smoke locusts came upon the earth. And to them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power. 4 They were commanded not to harm the grass of the earth, or any green thing, or any tree, but only those men who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads. ................... 13 Then the sixth angel sounded: And I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God, 14 saying to the sixth angel who had the trumpet, "Release the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates." 15 So the four angels, who had been prepared for the hour and day and month and year, were released to kill a third of mankind. 16 Nowthe number of the army of the horsemen [was] two hundred million; I heard the number of them.

Reve 16:14 For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, [which] go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the Battle of that Great Day of God Almighty. 15 "Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed [is] he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame."

[mee]

mark 13;11

However, when YOU catch sight of the disgusting thing that causes desolation standing where it ought not (let the reader use discernment), then let those in Ju·de´a begin fleeing to the mountains. .............. yes in these last days the disgusting thing is where it should not be. it is not what it seems ,or what some claim it to be , dont be fooled, it will not bring peace to the earth because only Gods heavenly kingdom goverment can do that. even if so called religious leaders put their trust in it dont be fooled it is a counterfiet in Gods eyes, so then ,what is the (disgusting thing )that so called religious leaders have put their trust in? Gods people know just what it is.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by InChristAlways

Hi Q. I am wondering why the jews [and a number of christians] feel Daniel 11 concerned maccabees and not the first century destruction of their Temple after Jesus was crucified and ascended. The Great Day of the Lord doesn't happen until after the messiah comes and preaches the "good news" [Isaiah 61/Malachi 4].
Another words, the jewish religion is still awaiting on their own messiah, not ours, correct?
Any thoughts?...

I do not presume to know the Jewish mind (hell, I don't even know my spouse's mind half the time)

However, "In 1967, during the early thaw of Catholic-Jewish relations, Rabbi Irving “Yitz” Greenberg addressed a Catholic audience about the conflicting Messiah beliefs.

The Orthodox rabbi noted that one difference between Jews and Catholics is whether the Messiah is coming for the first or second time. Christians believe the Messiah — a Jew from Nazareth called Jesus — came 2,000 years ago, and after dying and being resurrected, will someday return to redeem the world.

Jews say the Messiah has yet to arrive — a belief that led to centuries of Christian anti-Semitism and killings of Jews who refused to accept the Christian view.

Rabbi Greenberg suggested the dispute be tabled until the Messiah arrives. When the Messiah comes, Jews and Christians “can ask him if this is his first coming or his second,” finally putting the issue to rest. "

His point was humorous but clear, we both await the King's arrival. There is only One. And we both lay claim to Him. Did He come once before? Some of us say yes, and others say no. Will He come (again)? Both of us say yes, He is coming. Is He coming to save us all. Again, we both say yes. Will He rule over us? Again, both say yes.

Are we both talking about the same Messiah? I think so, just in Christian circles, Jews missed the boat the first time. "A prophet is welcomed everywhere, but in his own town..." (para).

Perhaps the Jews couldn't see the "tree, for the forest"... but to a desert dweller (gentiles), all the forest is respet, so is a single "tree".

My thoughts.

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Q

[InChristAlways]

However, "In 1967, during the early thaw of Catholic-Jewish relations, Rabbi Irving “Yitz” Greenberg addressed a Catholic audience about the conflicting Messiah beliefs.

The Orthodox rabbi noted that one difference between Jews and Catholics is whether the Messiah is coming for the first or second time. Christians believe the Messiah — a Jew from Nazareth called Jesus — came 2,000 years ago, and after dying and being resurrected, will someday return to redeem the world.

Jews say the Messiah has yet to arrive — a belief that led to centuries of Christian anti-Semitism and killings of Jews who refused to accept the Christian view.

Rabbi Greenberg suggested the dispute be tabled until the Messiah arrives. When the Messiah comes, Jews and Christians “can ask him if this is his first coming or his second,” finally putting the issue to rest. "

Interesting. The only second coming I saw was at the end of the 70 weeks in Daniel concluding with the Day of the Lord in Daniel 12.
Perhaps the confusion lies in what kind of "City" God was talking about in Daniel 9:25?
Depending on whether it was a "spiritual city/kingdom" the messiah would build, or a physical city, but in either case, Daniel 12 is for/against the Nation of Israel.

Daniel 9:24 7's, 70, he is decreeing [#2852] on people of you and on a city of a holy of you, to shut up[#03607] the transgression[#06588] and finish[#08552] sealing[#02856] up sin["02403] and to atone/cover[#03722] over iniquity[#05771] and come into/enter[#0395] in righteousness[#06664] of eons[#05769] and to seal up[#02856] vision[#02377] and prophet[#05030] and to annoint[#04886] holy[#06944] holy ones[#06944] .

Why divide up the 70 weeks in this manner, and who is this "anointed prince/ruler" that comes "after" the 60 and 2 sevens? If he is "anointed", wouldn't that one be someone of the "priesthood" of Levi or Kingship of David and how was he anointed?

Daniel 9:25 and you shall know and you shall be intelligent/wise[#07919] from going forth of [a ] word to turn back/return [#07725] and to build up Jerusalem untill an annointed one[#04899], a prince/ruler [#05057 Dan 11:22]], seven 7's, and 60 and 2 sevens, she shall return and she is built broad place/square and sharp/gold/diligent and in distress/constraint of the times.

For example, in revelation, there appears to be 2 different kind of "Cities with a broad-place" mentioned, the New Jerusalem and "Babylon/Sodom" and the country of "Egypt".

Reve 11:8 and their dead bodies [are] upon the broad-place [#4113] of the great city (that is called spiritually Sodom, and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified,)

Revelation 21:21 And the twelve gates [are] twelve pearls, each several one of the gates was of one pearl; and the broad-place [#4113] of the city [is] pure gold--as transparent glass.

[mee]

There will be arms that will stand up, proceeding from him; and they will actually profane the sanctuary, the fortress, and remove the constant feature." (Daniel 11:31a) The "arms" were the military forces that the king of the north used in order to fight the king of the south in World War II

As the 19th century neared its end, the German Empire was "the king of the north" and Britain stood in the position of "the king of the south." (Daniel 11:14, 15) "As regards these two kings," said Jehovah’s angel, "their heart will be inclined to doing what is bad, and at one table a lie is what they will keep speaking." He continued: "But nothing will succeed, because the end is yet for the time appointed."—Daniel 11:27.

[mee]

Originally Posted by mee

mark 13;11

However, when YOU catch sight of the disgusting thing that causes desolation standing where it ought not (let the reader use discernment), then let those in Ju·de´a begin fleeing to the mountains. .............. yes in these last days the disgusting thing is where it should not be. it is not what it seems ,or what some claim it to be , dont be fooled, it will not bring peace to the earth because only Gods heavenly kingdom goverment can do that. even if so called religious leaders put their trust in it dont be fooled it is a counterfiet in Gods eyes, so then ,what is the (disgusting thing )that so called religious leaders have put their trust in? Gods people know just what it is.

just realized that this verse should read mark 13;14 not verse 11, (sorry) so , who has got discernment and recognizes what is standing where it should not? in these times

[mee]

Originally Posted by InChristAlways

I have a question on Daniel.

Daniel is given a word about a Great Warfare/Host. This same word is also used in Daniel 8. Is this event the same event as Daniel 8, 11/12, Olivet Discourse and Revelation, as the Abomination mentioned in the olivet discourse is also the same one in Daniel 11:31 but for some reason, a lot believe that event happened during "Maccabees" but I don't see how if Jesus prophecied it to happen future to Him. Or is all of Daniel 11/12 a dual prophecy on Jerusalem? Thanks.

Daniel 10:1 In the third year of Cyrus king of Persia, a thing/word/matter is revealed to Daniel, whose name is called Belteshazzar, and true is the thing/word/matter and great warfare/host [#06635]: and he hath understood the thing, and hath understanding about the appearance.

Daniel 8:10 yea, it/she grows up/magnified unto the host [#06635] of the heavens, and cast toward earth of/from the host [#06635], and of/from the stars, and [she] is trampling them down.

Daniel 8:11 And unto prince/chief [#08269] of the host it/he does grow up/is magnifies himself, and by/from him exaltingly lifted up hath been the continual, and [he is?] is thrown down place of his sanctuary.

Daniel 12: 1 "At that time Michael shall stand up, The great prince [#08269] who stands [watch] over the sons of your people; 6 And [one] said to the man clothed in linen, who [was] above the waters of the river, "How long shall the fulfillment of these wonders [be?"]........

There is also a "Great War/Host" in revelation, which I believe is fulfilling Isaiah 28/Daniel 11/12.

Reve 9: 3 Then out of the smoke locusts came upon the earth. And to them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power. 4 They were commanded not to harm the grass of the earth, or any green thing, or any tree, but only those men who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads. ................... 13 Then the sixth angel sounded: And I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God, 14 saying to the sixth angel who had the trumpet, "Release the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates." 15 So the four angels, who had been prepared for the hour and day and month and year, were released to kill a third of mankind. 16 Nowthe number of the army of the horsemen [was] two hundred million; I heard the number of them.

Reve 16:14 For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, [which] go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the Battle of that Great Day of God Almighty. 15 "Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed [is] he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame."

And he opened the pit of the abyss, and smoke ascended out of the pit as the smoke of a great furnace, and the sun was darkened, also the air, by the smoke of the pit. And out of the smoke locusts came forth upon the earth; and authority was given them, the same authority as the scorpions of the earth have." (Revelation 9:2, 3) yes the locusts have been released from a state of inactivity in the abyss, to one of aurthority . when Jehovahs spirit is poured out on the locusts no challenge is to great ,and it has all happened in these last days , we are in the Lords day. since 1914

These first six bowls of Jehovah’s anger carry a sobering message. God’s earthly servants, supported by the angels, have been busy publicizing their contents on an earth-wide scale. In this way, due warning has been served on all sectors of Satan’s world system, and Jehovah has provided individuals an opportunity to turn to righteousness and keep living. (Ezekiel 33:14-16) Still, one more bowl of God’s anger remains. But before telling us about it, Revelation reveals how Satan and his earthly agents are trying to counteract the publicizing of Jehovah’s judgments. thrilling times indeed

[InChristAlways]

Daniel is given a word about a Great Warfare/Host. This same word is also used in Daniel 8. Is this event the same event as Daniel 8, 11/12, Olivet Discourse and Revelation, as the Abomination mentioned in the olivet discourse is also the same one in Daniel 11:31 but for some reason, a lot believe that event happened during "Maccabees" but I don't see how if Jesus prophecied it to happen future to Him. Or is all of Daniel 11/12 a dual prophecy on Jerusalem? Thanks.

Daniel 10:1 In the third year of Cyrus king of Persia, a thing/word/matter is revealed to Daniel, whose name is called Belteshazzar, and true is the thing/word/matter and great warfare/host [#06635]: and he hath understood the thing, and hath understanding about the appearance.

yes the locusts have been released from a state of inactivity in the abyss, to one of aurthority . when Jehovahs spirit is poured out on the locusts no challenge is to great ,and it has all happened in these last days , we are in the Lords day. since 1914

These first six bowls of Jehovah’s anger carry a sobering message. God’s earthly servants, supported by the angels, have been busy publicizing their contents on an earth-wide scale. In this way, due warning has been served on all sectors of Satan’s world system, and Jehovah has provided individuals an opportunity to turn to righteousness and keep living. (Ezekiel 33:14-16) Still, one more bowl of God’s anger remains. But before telling us about it, Revelation reveals how Satan and his earthly agents are trying to counteract the publicizing of Jehovah’s judgments. thrilling times indeed

1914 What does that have to do with Daniel 12?

Why is it shown that only those of the 12 tribes of Israel are sealed? Does that mean the jews will again receive wrath for the 4th time since Solomon's Temple? The jews feel they are the suffering servant in Isaiah, and rightly so, as Daniel and revelation concern them and their Nation/City, correct?

In either case, it doesn't appear Revelation/Daniel is 'Worldwide", but on a Nation, country and Great City, which I view as OC Israel/Judah/Jerusalem and the only ones "saved" are those that believe unto the Lamb shown slain in Revelation 5.
Steve.

reve 7:3 `Do not injure the land, nor the sea, nor the trees, till we may seal the servants of our God upon their foreheads.' 4 And I heard the number of those sealed, (one hundred and forty four thousands were sealed out of all the tribes of the sons/children of Israel):

Daniel 12:1 `And at that time stand up doth Michael, the great head, who is standing up for the sons of thy people, and there hath been a time of distress, such as hath not been since there hath been a nation till that time, and at that time do thy people escape/saved, every one who is found written in the book.

[mee]

Originally Posted by InChristAlways

1914 What does that have to do with Daniel 12?

Why is it shown that only those of the 12 tribes of Israel are sealed? Does that mean the jews will again receive wrath for the 4th time since Solomon's Temple? The jews feel they are the suffering servant in Isaiah, and rightly so, as Daniel and revelation concern them and their Nation/City, correct?

In either case, it doesn't appear Revelation/Daniel is 'Worldwide", but on a Nation, country and Great City, which I view as OC Israel/Judah/Jerusalem and the only ones "saved" are those that believe unto the Lamb shown slain in Revelation 5.
Steve.

reve 7:3 `Do not injure the land, nor the sea, nor the trees, till we may seal the servants of our God upon their foreheads.' 4 And I heard the number of those sealed, (one hundred and forty four thousands were sealed out of all the tribes of the sons/children of Israel):

Daniel 12:1 `And at that time stand up doth Michael, the great head, who is standing up for the sons of thy people, and there hath been a time of distress, such as hath not been since there hath been a nation till that time, and at that time do thy people escape/saved, every one who is found written in the book.

1914 has lots to do with the book of daniel and the book of revelation what a thrilling time we are living in, all of the prophecies are coming true , spiritual jews from all nations are sealed .the book of revelation is full of symbolisim
But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother(galations 4;26)

(Philippians 3:20) As for us, our citizenship exists in the heavens, from which place also we are eagerly waiting for a savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,

(John 18:36) Jesus answered: "My kingdom is no part of this world. If my kingdom were part of this world, my attendants would have fought that I should not be delivered up to the Jews. But, as it is, my kingdom is not from this source................. yes Gods heavenly kingdom goverment is all set up and ready to take action with Jesus as its king(Daniel 2;44) nomore manmade goverments only Gods goverment in the heavens bring it on
Let your kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also upon earth ....matthew 6;9 yes his will has taken place in the heavens ,the kingdom is set up . not long now and his will ,will be done on the earth as well ,out with the old in with the new .goodnews indeed

And as for you, O Daniel, make secret the words and seal up the book, until the time of [the] end. Many will rove about, and the [true] knowledge will become abundant .........daniel 12;4 and it has for those who want to see it

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by mee

1914 has lots to do with the book of daniel and the book of revelation what a thrilling time we are living in, all of the prophecies are coming true , spiritual jews from all nations are sealed .the book of revelation is full of symbolisim
But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother(galations 4;26)

(Philippians 3:20) As for us, our citizenship exists in the heavens, from which place also we are eagerly waiting for a savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,

(John 18:36) Jesus answered: "My kingdom is no part of this world. If my kingdom were part of this world, my attendants would have fought that I should not be delivered up to the Jews. But, as it is, my kingdom is not from this source................. yes Gods heavenly kingdom goverment is all set up and ready to take action with Jesus as its king(Daniel 2;44) nomore manmade goverments only Gods goverment in the heavens bring it on
Let your kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also upon earth ....matthew 6;9 yes his will has taken place in the heavens ,the kingdom is set up . not long now and his will ,will be done on the earth as well ,out with the old in with the new .goodnews indeed

And as for you, O Daniel, make secret the words and seal up the book, until the time of [the] end. Many will rove about, and the [true] knowledge will become abundant .........daniel 12;4 and it has for those who want to see it

Perhaps, however the "spiritual Jews" you refer to would only be 12,000 strong. That is irrefutable, since the Bible is specific on the numbers. The term "Jew" comes from the tribe Judea. There are 11 other tribes with 12,000 each being "sealed" as well. The remaining 132,000 virgin males are not Jews, nor of the tribe of Judea.

Also, all prophecy has not yet come to pass, hence the end time is not nigh. That too is irrefutable, since the Bible is specific on it. "All these things shall come to pass...first", that is what the Bible says.

Jesus goes further by telling us that we shall see things, but that this will not be the end time. What we are witnessing Jesus assures us, is the beginning of birth pangs.

The temple has yet to be built, Jeruselem is still under Palestinian authority, and there is still a Mosque sitting over the "rock".

There is also one other thing that has yet to happen, my friend. Prior to the end, will come a world wide evangelization, like never seen before.

It also states that all these things will come to pass, IF man continues looking away from God. In short God is telling us we still have a choice, the jury is still out. The game is not over yet. True we might be in sudden death overtime, but we're still in the play, and God is our coach and biggest fan.

If God is for us, who can stand against us?

Happy New Year Mee.

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[wil]

and there is still a Mosque sitting over the "rock".

the whole concept of that Mosque being removed from that "rock" sends shivers...

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by wil

the whole concept of that Mosque being removed from that "rock" sends shivers...

Hasn't happened, yet.

v/r

Q