Vampires

[Bandit]

anyone interested in a discussion on vampires? it is a belief believe it or not.
i am totally serious & find the immortal thought behind it interesting. the 'drawing of passion' in some cases. there is a big package of legend(s) as well as literal vampires. i wanted to be one as a kid. not a real one, rather a fiction one.

i suppose belief & spirituality is a good place & would appreciate some good replies from those interested or even not so interested.

to get started with the real ones, interesting article with footnotes here:
http://www.earthspirit.org/fireheart/fhvampire.html

Real vampires do not necessarily drink blood-in fact, most of them do not. Blood-drinking and vampirism have been confused to the extent that for the average person, a vampire is defined as something that drinks blood (such as a "vampire bat"). But when we look beyond casual assumptions to the details of common beliefs, we find something quite different. Throughout both folklore and literature, there is an understanding that vampires require energy or life force. Many old folktales accept that vampires suck blood, yet never describe this actually happening. The victims slowly decline and waste away, and the survivors assume that some evil fiend is draining them of blood. They know that the Bible says, "the blood is the life", and anyone who was losing their life force must be losing blood. Yet, in many instances the vampire's "attack" does not even involve physical contact. In others, it is clearly sexual energy which is exchanged.1

[17th Angel]

Vampires you say?

I'm in....

I will firstly place forward the "known" realtions to the bible, First most know the father of Vampires is Cain, Then this relates to the story in the Holy bible, of Cain and abel, Cain as most know kills Abel, God sends him into the darkness to the 'land of Nod' Vampires are supposed to have their own bible called the book of Nod, which eventually was seperated into four parts.... No idea by who, God or Cain himself, but this is what is said to have happened parts of the book of Nod are known, and they are supposed to tell of Beliar.... (who the Supernatural Nazi wing were attempting to unearth) and also of how Cain was punished to walk alone by God. Cain didn't obviously like being alone so he spread his curse into others through a bite (Like you could with HIV) and he and his children built the city of Nod. They were all said to take a different trait from their father and so they built seperate councils/clans/groups/sects/tribes/whatever. Control of the city turned into a bloodthirsty war and Cain was said to have dissapeared as he was truly cursed to be alone, he was disgusted with his children which also aided his departure. Also Vampires are knwon by most as Cainites.... And there are also references not that exact spelling but there is reference of cainites in the bible.... What do we think about this?

Also I can then go on to look at 'nowaday' Vampire stories... You have many that do gain pleasure from blood,

Erzebet Bathory
Jefferey Dahmer... (who was killed in prision by a person who said he was the son of Jesus)
Vlad the impaler.... the list could go on. If you read up on any of these, it becomes more of an addiction of pleasure.... to do what they do.

Anyway, I'll wait for some responses then go on...

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

Vampires you say?

I'm in....

I will firstly place forward the "known" realtions to the bible, First most know the father of Vampires is Cain, Then this relates to the story in the Holy bible, of Cain and abel, Cain as most know kills Abel, God sends him into the darkness to the 'land of Nod' Vampires are supposed to have their own bible called the book of Nod, which eventually was seperated into four parts.... No idea by who, God or Cain himself, but this is what is said to have happened parts of the book of Nod are known, and they are supposed to tell of Beliar.... (who the Supernatural Nazi wing were attempting to unearth) and also of how Cain was punished to walk alone by God. Cain didn't obviously like being alone so he spread his curse into others through a bite (Like you could with HIV) and he and his children built the city of Nod. They were all said to take a different trait from their father and so they built seperate councils/clans/groups/sects/tribes/whatever. Control of the city turned into a bloodthirsty war and Cain was said to have dissapeared as he was truly cursed to be alone, he was disgusted with his children which also aided his departure. Also Vampires are knwon by most as Cainites.... And there are also references not that exact spelling but there is reference of cainites in the bible.... What do we think about this?

Also I can then go on to look at 'nowaday' Vampire stories... You have many that do gain pleasure from blood,

Erzebet Bathory
Jefferey Dahmer... (who was killed in prision by a person who said he was the son of Jesus)
Vlad the impaler.... the list could go on. If you read up on any of these, it becomes more of an addiction of pleasure.... to do what they do.

Anyway, I'll wait for some responses then go on...

Dahmer reminded me more of a cannibal.

so you think there may be some kind of curse that some of these vampires fall under? i am thinking along the lines of the ones into the blood. i can see how that relates to the similiar curse/mark with Cain but not necessarily why he killed his brother. yes?
i just learned something new. the legend dates back to cain & Nod. actually part of what he got was that no one would kill him as a vagabond. i see legends from all over & would not doubt that as a possiblitiy. i am going to look that back up in the bible to make sure.

i know blood drinking is in the bible & the righteous seed was forbidden to do that. i find it odd that all this is only legend. something tells me different.
did you ever hear of some modern day vampires seeking donors through the public by way of clinics? & have you ever heard of 'psychic vampires'?

thank you much

[17th Angel]

Yup, there is special nightclubs... where you can register as a taker or a donater.... And they either get pleasure from feeding or being fed on. The part about blood, and the death of Abel, is because this is why he was punished in such a way, through jealousy he seeked bloodshed, and you know if you catch your kid smoking, you lock him away in a coubard to smoke like a whole pack or whatever this is kind of the punishment God gave Cain.... He wished for blood, now he had to live forever needing to cause bloodshed....

[Bandit]

LOL make your kid smoke a whole pack of cigs for smoking one. i get the drift.
i never viewed Cains punishment that way until now. i guess it is possible.

ok then, i am not going to the special night club, that is for sure. i caught part of a film that was like that.
i donate blood for most of my life like through red cross though, so i wonder if someone drank my blood.

some of them really look like they enjoy seeing blood come out. they smile & there eyes get real big.

[17th Angel]

Could be a conspiracy, a secret vampire oranisation, which funds the blood taking facility... scary, hmm that face looks like a stunned gold fish. Anyway I know of reports, of these HLV's, (human living Vampires.) They have there own bars and hot lines. You can find such topics in the local newspapers personal section..

[17th Angel]

As you know bandit, I write novels/manuscripts and one of my books that is in the works is titled 'Solivagus Anima.' Which means Wandering soul, basically I pick up where the bible leaves off, from gen 4:1 - 4:16, I tell a non-fictional tale to the unknown end of Cain. For a short detail of the first chapter, Cain begins he walk through the desert heading for Nod, and meets with Lucifer, making a pact.

"very well, I am known by many names, I like you Cain, so you may call me the Morning Star. Now my offer." The morning star stood and moved over to stand in front of Cain, "Your thirst which has taken control of your pale cold body, which I know for a face and this thirst isn't what you have ever experienced now is it Cain? You need to satisfy your this thirst with blood, the more you consume, the stronger you shall become. Now this is my off to you Cain, Finally. You may drink my blood.. BUT! A few drops only of course. This will make you powerful, and you will not have to fear anyone, nor Him.." The morning Star jerked his head upwards to the Heavens above, with another aggressive expression slapped on his face. "You, then will never age Cain my dear boy, and gain special powers too!. How shall we say, to keep you amused? With your vast amount of time, and believe me, it shall be a very long time.... very long. All this! In exchange for your soul, and! The souls of every child you create. You are already cursed, and have no need for a soul, and besides even though immortal, there are ways to die, where do you think you shall end up? If you turn to ashes hmm? Up there?!" The Morning Star smirked even more so now then before. "Dearest Cain, you will never rest in Heaven, but not to threat, if you should ever fall, or any of your children should fall, I have a little special place in my Kingdom just for you...."


Just a small clip of my book on the pact he makes... It I promise, to be a good one... If there any typos in that clip sorry, I was speed typing from my manuscript

So I am looking deeply at every post in this thread to help guide me with this novel... I want some of it to be..... Believable.

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

Could be a conspiracy, a secret vampire oranisation, which funds the blood taking facility... scary, hmm that face looks like a stunned gold fish. Anyway I know of reports, of these HLV's, (human living Vampires.) They have there own bars and hot lines. You can find such topics in the local newspapers personal section..

i believe what you say. it does not suprise me. i am thinking it is a little different when two adults consent.

(Gen 4:13) And Cain said unto the Lord, My punishment {is} greater than I can bear.
(Gen 4:14) Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, {that} every one that findeth me shall slay me.
(Gen 4:15) And the Lord said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.
<snip>
(Gen 4:23) And Lamech said unto his wives, Adah and Zillah, Hear my voice; ye wives of Lamech, hearken unto my speech: for I have slain a man to my wounding, and a young man to my hurt.
(Gen 4:24) If Cain shall be avenged sevenfold, truly Lamech seventy and sevenfold.

could it be verse 24 is saying the curse becomes greater down the line?

i read the clip that you shared. i am sure it will be a best seller when you finish. i know a lot of people like to read such novels. i can't say i have ever seen or read anyone take it from the line of Cain until now, so that in itself is a chore.

i dont even know why i find the whole vampire thing interesting, because i am not a good one for dealing with a lot of blood in the first place.

[_Z_]

I don’t know much about vampires yet there are energies known as emanations, they are like tiny dots of light visualised as & are associated with various kinds of energies both of the spirit and realms of eternity [interconnecting beams of emanations]. The point I am getting at of life energy, which is amber coloured imo, a primordial spirit has none, but after birth as e.g. a human they/we gather them up during life. Thus in my mind it is entirely possible that they can be drained by malicious beings that have no other means to gather. When a woman gives birth it seams like something is drained out of them as some of there energy is transferred to the offspring. All in all life energies appear to be transferable! Perhaps some beings want to awaken from the darkness of death – perhaps after exhausting their energies – by stealing peoples life force & experience vitality again, i dont know but perhaps these energies lie in the blood!



Bit off track there folks – just an idea.



Z

[Awaiting_the_fifth]

My college Literature teacher had a theory that the 'Bram Stoker' type vampire was actually alegorical of the epidemic of Syphilis(sp?) London.

The Vampire was viewed as a sexual being who seduced his victims and gave them this condition which made them as good as dead, but they could still walk as though they were alive and transmit the condition to others in the same, sexual way.

The similarities with Syphilis are obvious, it is sexually transmitted and at the time there was no cure, so after contact the person was as good as dead, but they lived without symptoms for many years transmitting the disease to others in the same, sexual way.

I do not know if there are vampire myths dating back before this time (1897) but if there are, I have a theory of their origin as well. In the 1700s there were stories about savage men living on distant continents who's head's grew beneath their shoulders, but these stories turned out to be stories of gorrillas. I would think that early vampire myths are born from early explorer's contanct with giant vampire bats.

[_Z_]

Interesting. perhaps it goes way back further than that, as ancients such as Egyptians, Celts [probably everywhere], believed in ‘stealers of hearts’ & soul-takers, not to mention similar voodoo beliefs [not that I know much about them].

Life energy imho appears to be zero in the black light [sub-void, as similar in the Tibetan book of the dead], reaching a maximum in the white light [irrelevant in transparency – or transformed and merged with all other energies]. So I can see how stealing energy from virgins and the blessed would be a ‘greater candy’ for ‘vampiric’ beings/creatures/people.

light & love oh with blood and death

Z

[path_of_one]

Originally Posted by _Z_

The point I am getting at of life energy, which is amber coloured imo, a primordial spirit has none, but after birth as e.g. a human they/we gather them up during life. Thus in my mind it is entirely possible that they can be drained by malicious beings that have no other means to gather. All in all life energies appear to be transferable! Perhaps some beings want to awaken from the darkness of death – perhaps after exhausting their energies – by stealing peoples life force & experience vitality again, i dont know but perhaps these energies lie in the blood!

Interesting ideas, particularly about your opinion that life energy is amber colored. That has always been my own impression as well. When I see auras, I just see gold-colored haze around people/animals, which I always interpreted as life energy. I never get to see colors or anything interesting, just life energy. I mostly ignore it or it gets annoying.

"Real"/human living vampires are an interesting group of folks, and I have plans to do some ethnography at some point with them if I can find willing participants. I found out about these folks a couple of years ago, and it is quite fascinating, both as a social phenomenon and from a spiritual perspective. It is necessary, first, to distinguish them from blood fetishists and other blood drinkers. Real vampires characterize themselves by their need for blood and/or others' energy, not by blood drinking. Hence, the psychic vampires who can feed off life or other energies. They themselves guess that there is a relationship between life energy and blood.

I think it's worth saying that these folks have never seemed evil or malicious to me. Many are pretty normal folk other than their vampirism- middle-aged moms and dads and professionals. While it is not an uncommon fad amongst teenagers who have watched too much Buffy and Angel, there are enough self-indentifed vampires who have normal lives and jobs to indicate there's something else going on there to me other than simple role-game-playing. Many vampires I've talked with say that they don't even really like blood, but they still feel that they need it. They report symptoms similar to chemical addicts during withdrawal when they go without feeding- weakness, lowered immunity, hunger and thirst, mood swings, etc. Most vampires subscribe to one of two theories about their own condition- (1) a genetic reason- that vampirism is a genetic disease of humans or (2) a spiritual reason- that vampirism is a result of having a non-human vampiric soul, or a karmic burden from some past life, etc. Some embrace it, some hate themselves for it, some just feel sad. Some fit the stereotype/fictionalized image and some don't. Many do report being nocturnal, sensitive to sunlight, etc. but these are within the range of normal human variation.

There are organizations for "real" vampires and "lifestylers"- people who embrace the image, though they aren't vampires themselves. Most of the organizations focus on support through forums, education, and providing a way for vampires and donors to find one another. It's worth saying that most vampires I've talked with have high ethical standards and would not feed (either blood or energy) from anyone but a willing adult donor. They're also generally big on sanitary practices- testing for diseases and such. Psychic vampires often say they can (and do) feed off ambient energies (like that expelled in a large crowd- as in a concert or sports event), but most insist that feeding from life energy should be with a consensual donor (which is one of the reasons that most find feeding from animals unethical). This also helps protect them, because energy work of any sort can bring with it feeling, very strongly, another person's emotions and also, if it goes on for any length of time, a bond of sorts with the person. Some vampires say they can also feed directly on natural energies- such as those released by storms, the ocean, etc.

I seriously doubt there is any conspiracy with blood banks, because most of the real vampires I've talked with have no problem finding a willing donor or a substitute, such as blood pudding. There are clubs and groups that meet in most major cities. They tend to get together just for relaxation and support though, and people generally don't feed in such public settings. Most vampires and donors find feeding to be a rather intimate and private thing, though I don't currently know if such clubs help people hook up. Most of the vampires I've talked with report that their donors are either close friends or significant others, though some find them through organizations listing donors.

Myself, I think it's very likely that all human beings feed off energy a bit. They just don't realize they do it. Most people when they become very sick or injured will feel very weak, and it is not uncommon for those who visit them to feel tired or a bit ill after being with them for a time. Vampires explain that such serious illnesses (and especially those who are dying) become psychic vampires automatically, even though they don't realize what they are doing. Many vampires claim that during their initial "awakening" (the period in which their vampirism started), they too made those around them tired and were essentially feeding off others' energy without realizing it or controlling it. Once they realized what was going on, over time they learned to control and refine their feeding, and/or switched to blood drinking. Many people also react in strange ways in a large crowd- getting hyper is common- and often crowds of folks impact each other's emotions. I think vampires, if they are a real phenomenon, are probably folks that just have a higher energy requirement than most and/or are more aware of it.

[Bandit]

path, Z, ATF, 17th,


i appreciate the responses a lot. it is true that not all vampires even use blood that way. I have read where it can be done by just touching someone say brushing against someone or using the bedroom.
i think we can all agree there are two important searches to take note of.
1) a quest for some kind of immortality
2) needing the energy from another person.
the latter is interesting because it kind of reminds me of the ying yang where you interlock your thumbs & middle fingers to get energy back.

then we have the scriptures where it says (the life is in the blood).

you all know i dont usually talk about things like this...but one thing i remember, an old girlfriend liked to give me hickeys & she would do it until i bled a little. i dont think she was a vampire, but i know it is easy to draw blood that way.

any way. i am not a vampire & dont want to be a vampire, i just want to better understand the belief & you are all being very helpful.
i will have some more possibilities & will read the postings again & make some more personal replies.

i like still like the fiction vampire the best. Dracula 1931, starring Bela Lugosi. i saw that more as a love story.

[17th Angel]

When you go into the 'touching' issue there are beliefs of this in some 'circles' of an Asian group of Vampires, called the erm*thinks hard* Assamite clan, which can do all sorts just through touch.... But anyway most of my "Immortal Vampire" knowledge can be found on some forums on the net and then just seen as fantasy... but remeber they can say the same about this forum.... so yeah. Where is the middle ground... ? They follow books (obviously not the book of Nod) and people here follow their books... If you go back to Human Living Vampires.... The following books relate to HLV's If you get the chance to aquire them, then maybe do so?




Doyle, Robert A. True Crime: Serial Killers.

Franzini, Louis R. and John M. Grossberg. Eccentric and Bizarre Behaviors. Freud, Sigmund. The Future Of An Illusion.

Fromm, Erich. The Anatomy of Human Destructiveness.

Wilson, Colin and Damon Wilson. The Killers Among Us: Sex, Madness & Mass Murder.

Wolf, Leonard. The Essential Dracula.

Another I cannot recal from my mind is called Real Vampires by puffin books cannot remember authors name.



Also last note.... May seem childish but, just keep an open mind and read the White wolf series books....

[_Z_]

Hey path of one,

I don’t see auras I am more of a mind seer & reader of the book with no name & the ether, the amber comes from visions. Interesting about the haze, do you see it around plants too? I associate green [although obvious] with vegetation, hence the ‘green man’ perhaps. I suppose if there are souls that originate from the higher plains [stellar children] then there will also be ones from the lower, usually I just feel sad for such beings & if I can help raise them then I do. But I am not talking about vampires as I have not met one [I think] just people that have a certain dark disposition, others however I find quite annoying and dumb.

Do vampire’s not have to interact with people to gain access to there energies e.g. love making?

I have often wondered if disease was somehow related, as it seams we catch a virus almost instantly then when we have ‘passed it on’ it quickly goes away.





Bandit hi, yes I wonder if there is some kind of maxim where the energies are transformed and immortality is gained! Although I think perhaps the black light is the maxim and attaining energies allows one to break free from ‘it’ – not quite sure wht ‘it’ is as I get scared when near as it sums up all fear! And I simply would rather head in the other direction – I only stumbled on ‘it’ through misdirection.



Interesting stuff all!



Love n light

Z