unredeemable?

shadowman · 09-09-2006, 05:14 PM

what are the theories on this?

say someone who has been a selfish spoiled asshole in many regards for most of his life, doing the worst things imaginable. dishonoring and cursing parents, verbal abuse, anger management, wall punching, trash talking, bitter, ungrateful, sarcasm having wretch. (i have been all these things until i got hit by my own remorse, sadness, and fear of losing my immortal soul)

possibly a bad seed, tare whatever you would call it, at least in some very important regards, an evil child.

do years of this behavior damn someone? with no hope of redemption (you cant take back some things, psychological and emotional damaage inflicted on loved ones)

postive steps are taking, but honestly, how can someone cleanse themself? or is the punishment walking with the burden of guilt and sin? and to continue to walk towards the light and away from the negative path?

peace

Quahom1 · 09-09-2006, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowman

what are the theories on this?

say someone who has been a selfish spoiled asshole in many regards for most of his life, doing the worst things imaginable. dishonoring and cursing parents, verbal abuse, anger management, wall punching, trash talking, bitter, ungrateful, sarcasm having wretch. (i have been all these things until i got hit by my own remorse, sadness, and fear of losing my immortal soul)

possibly a bad seed, tare whatever you would call it, at least in some very important regards, an evil child.

do years of this behavior damn someone? with no hope of redemption (you cant take back some things, psychological and emotional damaage inflicted on loved ones)

postive steps are taking, but honestly, how can someone cleanse themself? or is the punishment walking with the burden of guilt and sin? and to continue to walk towards the light and away from the negative path?

peace

Half the battle is admitting to the error. Here is the beginning of redemption from a Christian perspective:

10 Facts About Repentance

1. Repentance is a change of mind and behavior. Negatively, repentance means turning from sin, which is defined in 1 John 3:4 as “the transgression of the law” (KJV). On the positive side, repentance means turning to righteousness through a life of faith and obedience, the opposite of sin and disobedience.

2. The call to repentance is at the heart of the Kingdom message. Matthew 4:17

3. The message of repentance is essential to the great commission. Matthew 28:18-20

4. God commands repentance. Acts 17:30

5. Repentance is a gift of God. God doesn’t force anyone to repent; He simply makes the opportunity to repent available. Acts 5:31, Acts 11:18, 2 Timothy 2:25

6. Repentance is the fruit of Godly sorrow. 2 Corinthians 7:10

7. Repentance is the fruit of God’s goodness. Romans 2:4, 2 Peter 3:9

8. Repentance is necessary for salvation. Luke 13:2,5, 2 Peter 3:9

9. Repentance is inseparable from “saving faith.” Ephesians 2:8-9, Hebrews 6:1

10. Repentance doesn’t end with initial conversion. Repentance is a process. It involves continuous introspection, frequent exposure to the Word of God, regular prayer, and perhaps occasional fasting. James 4:7-10

Hope this helps.

v/r

Q

edit: oh, and God says to give your "burden" to Him...what He gives you back is much lighter to carry...

InLove · 09-09-2006, 06:03 PM

Hi shadowman

I can only speak from within my own understanding, but said understanding is that forgiveness is there for you if you truly want it. As for broken relationships, they might not be "fixed" in the way you imagine, but in the long run, it will all come together. There is light and darkness, and both serve respective purposes.

InPeace
InLove

cavalier · 09-09-2006, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowman

what are the theories on this?

say someone who has been a selfish spoiled asshole in many regards for most of his life, doing the worst things imaginable. dishonoring and cursing parents, verbal abuse, anger management, wall punching, trash talking, bitter, ungrateful, sarcasm having wretch. (i have been all these things until i got hit by my own remorse, sadness, and fear of losing my immortal soul)

possibly a bad seed, tare whatever you would call it, at least in some very important regards, an evil child.

do years of this behavior damn someone? with no hope of redemption (you cant take back some things, psychological and emotional damaage inflicted on loved ones)

postive steps are taking, but honestly, how can someone cleanse themself? or is the punishment walking with the burden of guilt and sin? and to continue to walk towards the light and away from the negative path?

peace

These are just my thoughts, maybe some people. maybe you, wont agree, but here goes.

No, you can't take it back, but no this doesn't damn you. Sorry if I'm wrong but I guess that deep down you already know that a little. If you were damned then you couldn't be taking the positive steps that you're now taking.

I think with religion and spirituality, people sometimes concentrate too much on what they can't do and not enough on what they can. You're taking positive steps, focus on them and make them strong.

Quahom1 · 09-09-2006, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cavalier

These are just my thoughts, maybe some people. maybe you, wont agree, but here goes.

No, you can't take it back, but no this doesn't damn you. Sorry if I'm wrong but I guess that deep down you already know that a little. If you were damned then you couldn't be taking the positive steps that you're now taking.

I think with religion and spirituality, people sometimes concentrate too much on what they can't do and not enough on what they can. You're taking positive steps, focus on them and make them strong.

Exactly. Even if one is face down in the gutter, just by turning over, one can see the stars, to reach for...

v/r

Q

Dondi · 09-09-2006, 07:31 PM

We live with our consequences. Our past has molded us into what we are today. We've been in good environments. We've been in bad environments. We have had good things happen to us. We have had some bad things happen to us. We have done some good things. We have done some bad things. There is likely correlation between all those things.

The sum total of our life will have a determining factor on our immediate and long-range future. In the end, what will our lives add up to?

The hope is that the final tally isn't yet computed. As long as we have breath, there is still the possibility of changing our direction. But that is hard to do when you have only been down one road.

People seeking religion and spirituality seek to alter course, presumably toward the good in life. This is an admission that we cannot follow the right path by ourselves. We need help.

Shadowman, by coming to this forum, you are admitting that you cannot change by yourself, and I'd say you are in good company. We are all seekers for the better. And a majority of us will admit that something dynamic has happened or needs to happen in order to affect the proper change we seek.

As for me, I seek after a Divine Presence in my life. For I recognize in many scriptures the idea of a benevolent God who is able to change the lives of His Creation. And for the most part, I've seen the influence of such a God in my life in many ways. I've found forgiveness of my past and restoration of my soul. Not saying everything is honky-dory. There are certain consequences I still have to deal with. I'm not perfect, but I am aiming for the target.

I implore you to be a seeker, find out for yourself. Be encouraged by other seekers on this forum. Reach out to what you can learn and apply to your own life. It is never to late.

So, come on in, the water's fine.

Dondi

flowperson · 09-09-2006, 10:12 PM

Shadowman:

It takes a lot of courage to make the admissions that you have made to a worldwide audience. This is a good place. Read and learn as much as you can and are willing to pursue. Ask too many questions...we will all help you find answers. They might not be the ones that you seek, but hey...we're an eclectic bunch of nuts.

Above all, seek redemption in ways that you feel are appropriate. Maybe volunteering time to agencies that help people who are/were victimized by the sorts of behavior that you are seeking to leave in the past would be beneficial for you. Be creative...that's what we're all here for IMO.

Good to have you here !

flow....

Paladin · 09-10-2006, 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowman

what are the theories on this?

say someone who has been a selfish spoiled asshole in many regards for most of his life, doing the worst things imaginable. dishonoring and cursing parents, verbal abuse, anger management, wall punching, trash talking, bitter, ungrateful, sarcasm having wretch. (i have been all these things until i got hit by my own remorse, sadness, and fear of losing my immortal soul)

possibly a bad seed, tare whatever you would call it, at least in some very important regards, an evil child.

do years of this behavior damn someone? with no hope of redemption (you cant take back some things, psychological and emotional damaage inflicted on loved ones)

postive steps are taking, but honestly, how can someone cleanse themself? or is the punishment walking with the burden of guilt and sin? and to continue to walk towards the light and away from the negative path?

peace

Hi Shadow,

I think I did most of those behaviors as well. Come to think of it, you might have left a few things out

Of course I had a quite a few years to perfect being a jerk.

I can tell you for certain that nothing is irreparable. It sounds as if you might be feeling pretty vulnerable right now, so take it slow, and give yourself a break. You didn't get where you are in a flash and getting out of it takes time so please remember to breathe.
A great many people are going to give you a ton of advice, some good, some less than helpful but well meaning.
It's not going to be easy, but it will be worth it, and what you will end up with is what you always were, what you were meant to be. Believe me I know, because I took that journey too. I'm not proud of what I used to be, but now I focus on what is positive without dwelling on what I was. It has been said that the wake doesn't move the boat forward, and I am grateful for that. Remorse is one thing, Guilt is another, and the difference can make or break your recovery.
Stick around, there are some great people here.

Peace

Mark

shadowman · 09-10-2006, 08:08 PM

taking on all these negative choieswarped my perception of everything. when doing them, im not even sure if i thougt i t was that bad. i was justifying them, saying things were unfair. being confused.

this lead to severe depression and laziness and possibly a psychological situation called schizo tipal, where my mind is set up to think doubly, and parts of my subconscious that thrive on anger greed and lust dont really like me too much.

i was hearing messed p voices

christian thought would say i had demons

and it got worse

at one point i was trying to stop the weird voices and confusions and was trying to get divine helped.

at one point i tried asking a dark spirit, christian satan or devil. to tell me "whats the trut"

and of course in my head i thought i heard satan telling me he was real, and i was being tormented by him, and now i couldn accept jesus, because i had found a loophole and since satan revealed himself to me, i knew that "christianity was right" (this is something i sdont even think, i look to numerous scriptres for knowledge and understanding, and im not even sure if bible can be trusted, but this goes out the window when you start hearing stuff)

since i knew it was right by uhol means, and blessed are those that do not see and yet eleive, how could i beleive now that i had seen satan

i even heard voices inside me saying he could have my soul and burn me in hell forever and all eternity

my jungian psychoanalysis says i got incontact with an archetypal figure in my subconsciousness, a personigficaiton of negative personalities i had nurtured over years by giving into whims, anger, lust and greed

that essenitally, i hate myself, and my shadow really doesnt like me either.

it has convinced my ego that i am unredeemable and deserve "hell"

even though my rational tohught s skeptic that anyone even gets hell.

even so, even if i could redeem myself through actions (and ihave, ive realized mistakes ad am changing"

its too late anyway becuase i "gave my soul to satan in return for the knowledge of his existence"

now i thik i see other lost and damned souls everywhere.

i think they can communicate with me telepathically, like the weird torment of the damned, all able to sense immediately when they see each other. some i think are even mad at me for "blowing their cover" if i see someone on the street and we have that unspoken conection.

sometimes i thik they are a huge network of damned souls spreading lies through other religious paths to keep peop;e from true salvation in jesus.

i used to hate fundamental christian thought, im a jazz musician in love with african and voodoo and indian music for crying outloud!

but now im locked in a great conspiracy of demons and angels

jungian psychology explains this.

but maybe thats just so people that truly will be going to the unthinkable torment of hell will think better and feel better. ease their time on earth, cuz after that, it is really really going to suck?

that makes sense, psychologists just tell the patient what he needs to hear.

maybe psychologists even know that they really DID sel or lose their souls forever.

i know this is out there..

honeslty i get more insight from the egyptian book of life or the bagavad gita then the bible, but im either indoctrinated into a crazy devil myth due to my nurtured darkside, or its all true. and all of the "free spirits" are damning themselves.

or maybe its just people that do worst of the worst, in any path of spirituality, after a certain point of osul defilement, the light becomes snuffed and the devil completely takes them.

shadowman · 09-10-2006, 08:15 PM

maybe i got into contact with something older than the devil, or satan the shatan or whatever.

taijasi · 09-11-2006, 03:48 AM

Shadowman,

I genuinely hope that people on this forum who are not Christians, and who do not maintain this belief system, will reach out to you, or converse with you, as well. This might help you greatly, to benefit from hearing people who maintain a variety of spiritual perspectives.

All I will say, from a Christian point of view, is this. The reason you will find a parable about Christ forsaking the ninety and nine sheep for the sake of the one, is precisely to help you in such a situation as you're currently in.

Now add to this awareness a piece of esoteric Wisdom, very powerful in the realization:

You cannot ever attract unto yourselves a greater power than you yourselves are. Therefore you are equipped to meet and transmute anything which you attract. (from the Teachings of Master R. & Lucille Cedercranz, emphasis added)

I can assure you, that from the perspective of the Soul, your outer life - and ALL the factors you've described - are well in hand. The Soul is Immortal. It is indestructible. It is NOT subject to "heaven and hell," as some people believe. And you are its incarnation, a fragment of the Soul, that has taken a temporary form.

There is ONE THING ONLY that can bring you to the state of mind wherein you will have concerns about the "fate of your soul." And that's fear. Remember the saying, there's nothing to fear, but fear itself.

This is no trite, platitudinous saying. This is God's own Wisdom. It is the truth.

Imagine it this way. If you are familiar with the allegory given to us by that great Philosopher, the Initiate Plato, then this will make perfect sense. Plato told us that the nature of our incarnate life is like living inside a CAVE.

There is a Light, that is projected against the walls of the cave (like a movie screen), and this corresponds to our incarnation into the body, from and by the Soul. But most of us, we cannot turn our head, and therefore, we come to mistake ourselves FOR THE PROJECTION.

We also cannot SEE the Light behind us, which generates the outward images (shadows, indeed, Shadowman), since we cannot turn our head. We cannot even see the true OBJECTS (in the inner worlds), which FORM or CAST these shadows, as the Light strikes them.

To behold the inner reality, it takes a jivanmukta, a FREE SOUL, a true Master, such as was the Christ, or the Master R. (quoted above), the Buddha, and dozens of others (Thoth-Hermes was such an one, Plato himself, was quite advanced). We gradually learn, as you are no doubt aware, to turn our head, and slowly our inner eye starts to behold the OBJECTS - those aspects of our inner being - which CAST the shadows.

We KNOW, firsthand, that these are the Greater Reality, and that clearly, there is much misguided theology and philsophy (however well intended) ... which leads us into the error of thinking, "I have lost my soul," or "I shall lose my soul." The SHADOW cannot lose the OBJECT which CAST IT.

WHICH of these, ask yourself, is the GREATER REALITY?

NEVER could the SHADOW possess the SOUL - it's SOURCE.

But what did Plato tell us (and from firsthand, direct knowledge, I might add)? That we could simply learn to move our heads? No. He gave us a glimpse of an even Greater Reality ... though again, by way of metaphor, an allegory. He told us that it IS POSSIBLE (and destined, I assure you) to GET UP, go outside of the Cave altogether. (And yes, even ALL TOGETHER.)

What will we see and know THEN?

Ahhhh. We shall know and behold the Truth. Not even the objects within the Cave, OR that temporary lightsource - LUCIFER, the LightBearer, or others of the Luminaries - NOT ANY OF THESE ... were or are the GREATEST of the Realities, or Truths. These were only provided, and walked with us for a time (during incarnate life), to help us come to Greater Light, Greater Truth, Greater Wisdom, and to the Presence of God qua God.

Plato speaks of walking around OUTSIDE of the Cave, in the open air, freely, where the sun shines, grass and flowers grow, butterflies flutter around ... and nothing but peace, harmony, Beauty and Brotherly Love prevail.

Now as we know, Christ was well aware, ALIVE AND WELL within this Kingdom of Heaven. He knew it, He lived (within) it, and He shared this awareness with those of His day who were able to glimpse it, to understand it, and to co-participate in it WITH HIM, to a degree. They experienced this, as have many of the Saints and Holy Ones of every calling, since life on Earth first began, and as will be the case until the VERY LAST Son of the Most High is callled home, and enters into the Father's House. People today, by the millions, consciously dwell within the Kingdom of Heaven, of God.

Do NOT listen to anyone, ANY voice, who tells you otherwise. Either they lie, or they do not know. In the astral world, it is easy to find, or hear voices - some presences, who are misguided, who have wandered and who FORGET to look toward the light. If I CANNOT SEE the Light (BOUND in the Cave, my head facing forward only), then I may try to tell you that no such Greater Light (let along the Greatest, God outside the Cave) exists.

Or, if I am bound beside you in this cave, then even if I hold a so-called "Holy Book," then I may ALSO try to tell you something I do not know, but simply fear and believe, because it has been told me, because it is written, and because I TOO, have not not seen that Light. However well intentioned I may be, I speak mistruth.

Rather would I LISTEN to those who have gone before, those who KNOW from experience, and those who BEHOLD the world outside the cave, and Who YET are able to help those of us who still sit within the cave. My advice would be NOT to seek their Voice telepathically, for you will hear the SHOUTS of those speak from ignorance and fear, long before you distinguish the "still, small voice" of Truth and Wisdom. Better to pray, to meditate, and to seek the Voice of the SILENCE.

In this CALM, which CAN and does come to us within the Cave ... we can establish a rapport, and find strength, in the Reality both outside the Cave, and which is reflected as the LIGHT inside the cave, behind us, projecting all these images, or shadows.

As the Christian puts it, "Be STILL, and Know that I am God." And as the Christ said, "There is a PEACE, which passeth Understanding." ALL of this, can be experienced while still seated, head facing forward, watching the shadows dance.

NEVER mistake yourself for your shadow, in terms of Plato's Allegory. In context of Jungian, or other mythologies & tools, there is a reality to the "shadow self," in that THIS is who is seated ... and it is ALSO the objects which cast the shadows on the cave wall, to a certain degree. Reality is LAYERED, it is not black & white, or a strict polarity, as some people maintain. We can only ever ask ourseves, what is the Greater Reality ... since there will ALWAYS be one.

Perhaps some of this is helpful. If you haven't read Plato's Cave Allegory, in Plato's own writing, then google it. See if it speaks to you.

Love & Light,

andrew/taijasi

Blue Jay · 09-11-2006, 04:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taijasi

Shadowman,

I genuinely hope that people on this forum who are not Christians, and who do not maintain this belief system, will reach out to you, or converse with you, as well.

I'll give it a try. First of all, Shadowman, you're a good guy. I can tell because only good guys ever worry about whether or not they're good.

Secondly, you're an intelligent man. It takes an intelligent person to ask the questions you are asking. Deep, self-examination like you are doing can only come from a very brilliant brain.

Thirdly, at the moment you are feeling very seriously confused. Voices in your head can do that. It's normal. It's your illness. Your doctor is giving you meds for it, I gather. Take the meds.

If your doctor is not giving you medication, see a doctor who will. Illness like voices can drive a person crazy. You don't need that. Not today. There's medication.

Above all, remember that you're a good guy, a good brilliant guy who deserves to be free from such a terrible illness.

Redeemable? Absolutely! Every single one of us here believes it. That's why we're writing. That's what grace is all about.

Hope you feel better soon, Shadowman. You deserve it.

BJ

inhumility · 09-11-2006, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowman

what are the theories on this?

say someone who has been a selfish spoiled asshole in many regards for most of his life, doing the worst things imaginable. dishonoring and cursing parents, verbal abuse, anger management, wall punching, trash talking, bitter, ungrateful, sarcasm having wretch. (i have been all these things until i got hit by my own remorse, sadness, and fear of losing my immortal soul)

possibly a bad seed, tare whatever you would call it, at least in some very important regards, an evil child.

do years of this behavior damn someone? with no hope of redemption (you cant take back some things, psychological and emotional damaage inflicted on loved ones)

postive steps are taking, but honestly, how can someone cleanse themself? or is the punishment walking with the burden of guilt and sin? and to continue to walk towards the light and away from the negative path?

peace

There is none unredeemable. I suggest you to pray like thus ,whenever you want to and wherever you are, no fomality:
The Holy Quran: Chapter 1: Al-Fatihah, meaning the opener:
[1:1] In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful
[1:2] All praise belongs to Allah, Lord of all the worlds,
[1:3] The Gracious, the Merciful,
[1:4] Master of the Day of Judgment.
[1:5] Thee alone do we worship and Thee alone do we implore for help.
[1:6] Guide us in the right path –
[1:7] The path of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy blessings, those who have not incurred Thy displeasure, and those who have not gone astray.
Unquote
Thanks

wil · 09-11-2006, 01:43 PM

unredeemable?

Not in any stretch of the imagination. May you pay for your transgressions...sure. I believe we are not punished for our sins but by them. Call it a form of karma...but what comes around does go around...

But as we choose to grow and change it increases our chances at grace....and when that pendelum swings back we might just not be in that plane any longer...

Seeing the error in our ways is always the first step....when we are the ass we don't realize it...when we can see we are an ass that is wonderful. When we decide to no longer be an ass haleluia....when we apologize to others for being an ass, the momemtum is rolling in our favor...and when we truly forgive ourselves for bing an ass...even for decades of assness...we've made major changes.

As a friend of mine said to me...'don't dis the path that brought you here'...for it is that path and those stories that you will utlize so well as you grow and assist others to grow...

shadowman · 09-13-2006, 01:32 AM

i was definitely sending off many negative vibes into the ether of the universe?

mabe i attracted a dark force? maybe a really bad dark force.

are these things possible to by revealed or sensed by mystics? eastern or african spiritualists? etc?

would i have a mark put on me?

what is the mythology surounding this type of thing?

09-09-2006, 05:14 PM	#1 (permalink)
shadowman Interfaith Forums Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 505	unredeemable? what are the theories on this? say someone who has been a selfish spoiled asshole in many regards for most of his life, doing the worst things imaginable. dishonoring and cursing parents, verbal abuse, anger management, wall punching, trash talking, bitter, ungrateful, sarcasm having wretch. (i have been all these things until i got hit by my own remorse, sadness, and fear of losing my immortal soul) possibly a bad seed, tare whatever you would call it, at least in some very important regards, an evil child. do years of this behavior damn someone? with no hope of redemption (you cant take back some things, psychological and emotional damaage inflicted on loved ones) postive steps are taking, but honestly, how can someone cleanse themself? or is the punishment walking with the burden of guilt and sin? and to continue to walk towards the light and away from the negative path? peace

09-09-2006, 06:03 PM	#3 (permalink)
InLove at peace Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 3,267	Re: unredeemable? Hi shadowman I can only speak from within my own understanding, but said understanding is that forgiveness is there for you if you truly want it. As for broken relationships, they might not be "fixed" in the way you imagine, but in the long run, it will all come together. There is light and darkness, and both serve respective purposes. InPeace InLove

09-09-2006, 07:31 PM	#6 (permalink)
Dondi Executive Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Southern Maryland Posts: 2,038	Re: unredeemable? We live with our consequences. Our past has molded us into what we are today. We've been in good environments. We've been in bad environments. We have had good things happen to us. We have had some bad things happen to us. We have done some good things. We have done some bad things. There is likely correlation between all those things. The sum total of our life will have a determining factor on our immediate and long-range future. In the end, what will our lives add up to? The hope is that the final tally isn't yet computed. As long as we have breath, there is still the possibility of changing our direction. But that is hard to do when you have only been down one road. People seeking religion and spirituality seek to alter course, presumably toward the good in life. This is an admission that we cannot follow the right path by ourselves. We need help. Shadowman, by coming to this forum, you are admitting that you cannot change by yourself, and I'd say you are in good company. We are all seekers for the better. And a majority of us will admit that something dynamic has happened or needs to happen in order to affect the proper change we seek. As for me, I seek after a Divine Presence in my life. For I recognize in many scriptures the idea of a benevolent God who is able to change the lives of His Creation. And for the most part, I've seen the influence of such a God in my life in many ways. I've found forgiveness of my past and restoration of my soul. Not saying everything is honky-dory. There are certain consequences I still have to deal with. I'm not perfect, but I am aiming for the target. I implore you to be a seeker, find out for yourself. Be encouraged by other seekers on this forum. Reach out to what you can learn and apply to your own life. It is never to late. So, come on in, the water's fine. Dondi

09-09-2006, 10:12 PM	#7 (permalink)
flowperson Oannes Join Date: May 2006 Location: SW United States Posts: 2,613	Re: unredeemable? Shadowman: It takes a lot of courage to make the admissions that you have made to a worldwide audience. This is a good place. Read and learn as much as you can and are willing to pursue. Ask too many questions...we will all help you find answers. They might not be the ones that you seek, but hey...we're an eclectic bunch of nuts. Above all, seek redemption in ways that you feel are appropriate. Maybe volunteering time to agencies that help people who are/were victimized by the sorts of behavior that you are seeking to leave in the past would be beneficial for you. Be creative...that's what we're all here for IMO. Good to have you here ! flow....

09-10-2006, 08:08 PM	#9 (permalink)
shadowman Interfaith Forums Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 505	Re: unredeemable? taking on all these negative choieswarped my perception of everything. when doing them, im not even sure if i thougt i t was that bad. i was justifying them, saying things were unfair. being confused. this lead to severe depression and laziness and possibly a psychological situation called schizo tipal, where my mind is set up to think doubly, and parts of my subconscious that thrive on anger greed and lust dont really like me too much. i was hearing messed p voices christian thought would say i had demons and it got worse at one point i was trying to stop the weird voices and confusions and was trying to get divine helped. at one point i tried asking a dark spirit, christian satan or devil. to tell me "whats the trut" and of course in my head i thought i heard satan telling me he was real, and i was being tormented by him, and now i couldn accept jesus, because i had found a loophole and since satan revealed himself to me, i knew that "christianity was right" (this is something i sdont even think, i look to numerous scriptres for knowledge and understanding, and im not even sure if bible can be trusted, but this goes out the window when you start hearing stuff) since i knew it was right by uhol means, and blessed are those that do not see and yet eleive, how could i beleive now that i had seen satan i even heard voices inside me saying he could have my soul and burn me in hell forever and all eternity my jungian psychoanalysis says i got incontact with an archetypal figure in my subconsciousness, a personigficaiton of negative personalities i had nurtured over years by giving into whims, anger, lust and greed that essenitally, i hate myself, and my shadow really doesnt like me either. it has convinced my ego that i am unredeemable and deserve "hell" even though my rational tohught s skeptic that anyone even gets hell. even so, even if i could redeem myself through actions (and ihave, ive realized mistakes ad am changing" its too late anyway becuase i "gave my soul to satan in return for the knowledge of his existence" now i thik i see other lost and damned souls everywhere. i think they can communicate with me telepathically, like the weird torment of the damned, all able to sense immediately when they see each other. some i think are even mad at me for "blowing their cover" if i see someone on the street and we have that unspoken conection. sometimes i thik they are a huge network of damned souls spreading lies through other religious paths to keep peop;e from true salvation in jesus. i used to hate fundamental christian thought, im a jazz musician in love with african and voodoo and indian music for crying outloud! but now im locked in a great conspiracy of demons and angels jungian psychology explains this. but maybe thats just so people that truly will be going to the unthinkable torment of hell will think better and feel better. ease their time on earth, cuz after that, it is really really going to suck? that makes sense, psychologists just tell the patient what he needs to hear. maybe psychologists even know that they really DID sel or lose their souls forever. i know this is out there.. honeslty i get more insight from the egyptian book of life or the bagavad gita then the bible, but im either indoctrinated into a crazy devil myth due to my nurtured darkside, or its all true. and all of the "free spirits" are damning themselves. or maybe its just people that do worst of the worst, in any path of spirituality, after a certain point of osul defilement, the light becomes snuffed and the devil completely takes them.

09-10-2006, 08:15 PM	#10 (permalink)
shadowman Interfaith Forums Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 505	Re: unredeemable? maybe i got into contact with something older than the devil, or satan the shatan or whatever.

09-11-2006, 03:48 AM	#11 (permalink)
taijasi andreas bar Abba Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: New Atlantis Posts: 880	Re: unredeemable? NO SUCH THING Shadowman, I genuinely hope that people on this forum who are not Christians, and who do not maintain this belief system, will reach out to you, or converse with you, as well. This might help you greatly, to benefit from hearing people who maintain a variety of spiritual perspectives. All I will say, from a Christian point of view, is this. The reason you will find a parable about Christ forsaking the ninety and nine sheep for the sake of the one, is precisely to help you in such a situation as you're currently in. Now add to this awareness a piece of esoteric Wisdom, very powerful in the realization: You cannot ever* attract unto yourselves a greater power than you yourselves are. Therefore* you are equipped to meet and transmute anything which you attract. (from the Teachings of Master R. & Lucille Cedercranz, emphasis added) I can assure you, that from the perspective of the Soul, your outer life - and ALL the factors you've described - are well in hand. The Soul is Immortal. It is indestructible. It is NOT subject to "heaven and hell," as some people believe. And you are its incarnation, a fragment of the Soul, that has taken a temporary form. There is ONE THING ONLY that can bring you to the state of mind wherein you will have concerns about the "fate of your soul." And that's fear. Remember the saying, there's nothing to fear, but fear itself. This is no trite, platitudinous saying. This is God's own Wisdom. It is the truth. Imagine it this way. If you are familiar with the allegory given to us by that great Philosopher, the Initiate Plato, then this will make perfect sense. Plato told us that the nature of our incarnate life is like living inside a CAVE. There is a Light, that is projected against the walls of the cave (like a movie screen), and this corresponds to our incarnation into the body, from and by the Soul. But most of us, we cannot turn our head, and therefore, we come to mistake ourselves FOR THE PROJECTION. We also cannot SEE the Light behind us, which generates the outward images (shadows, indeed, Shadowman), since we cannot turn our head. We cannot even see the true OBJECTS (in the inner worlds), which FORM or CAST these shadows, as the Light strikes them. To behold the inner reality, it takes a jivanmukta, a FREE SOUL, a true Master, such as was the Christ, or the Master R. (quoted above), the Buddha, and dozens of others (Thoth-Hermes was such an one, Plato himself, was quite advanced). We gradually learn, as you are no doubt aware, to turn our head, and slowly our inner eye starts to behold the OBJECTS - those aspects of our inner being - which CAST the shadows. We KNOW, firsthand, that these are the Greater Reality, and that clearly, there is much misguided theology and philsophy (however well intended) ... which leads us into the error of thinking, "I have lost my soul," or "I shall lose my soul." The SHADOW cannot lose the OBJECT which CAST IT. WHICH of these, ask yourself, is the GREATER REALITY? NEVER could the SHADOW possess the SOUL - it's SOURCE. But what did Plato tell us (and from firsthand, direct knowledge, I might add)? That we could simply learn to move our heads? No. He gave us a glimpse of an even Greater Reality ... though again, by way of metaphor, an allegory. He told us that it IS POSSIBLE (and destined, I assure you) to GET UP, go outside of the Cave altogether. (And yes, even ALL TOGETHER.) What will we see and know THEN? Ahhhh. We shall know and behold the Truth. Not even the objects within the Cave, OR that temporary lightsource - LUCIFER, the LightBearer, or others of the Luminaries - NOT ANY OF THESE ... were or are the GREATEST of the Realities, or Truths. These were only provided, and walked with us for a time (during incarnate life), to help us come to Greater Light, Greater Truth, Greater Wisdom, and to the Presence of God qua God. Plato speaks of walking around OUTSIDE of the Cave, in the open air, freely, where the sun shines, grass and flowers grow, butterflies flutter around ... and nothing but peace, harmony, Beauty and Brotherly Love prevail. Now as we know, Christ was well aware, ALIVE AND WELL within this Kingdom of Heaven. He knew it, He lived (within) it, and He shared this awareness with those of His day who were able to glimpse it, to understand it, and to co-participate in it WITH HIM, to a degree. They experienced this, as have many of the Saints and Holy Ones of every calling, since life on Earth first began, and as will be the case until the VERY LAST Son of the Most High is callled home, and enters into the Father's House. People today, by the millions, consciously dwell within the Kingdom of Heaven, of God. Do NOT listen to anyone, ANY voice, who tells you otherwise. Either they lie, or they do not know. In the astral world, it is easy to find, or hear voices - some presences, who are misguided, who have wandered and who FORGET to look toward the light. If I CANNOT SEE the Light (BOUND in the Cave, my head facing forward only), then I may try to tell you that no such Greater Light (let along the Greatest, God outside the Cave) exists. Or, if I am bound beside you in this cave, then even if I hold a so-called "Holy Book," then I may ALSO try to tell you something I do not know, but simply fear and believe, because it has been told me, because it is written, and because I TOO, have not not seen that Light. However well intentioned I may be, I speak mistruth. Rather would I LISTEN to those who have gone before, those who KNOW from experience, and those who BEHOLD the world outside the cave, and Who YET are able to help those of us who still sit within the cave. My advice would be NOT to seek their Voice telepathically, for you will hear the SHOUTS of those speak from ignorance and fear, long before you distinguish the "still, small voice" of Truth and Wisdom. Better to pray, to meditate, and to seek the Voice of the SILENCE. In this CALM, which CAN and does come to us within the Cave ... we can establish a rapport, and find strength, in the Reality both outside the Cave, and which is reflected as the LIGHT inside the cave, behind us, projecting all these images, or shadows. As the Christian puts it, "Be STILL, and Know that I am God." And as the Christ said, "There is a PEACE, which passeth Understanding." ALL of this, can be experienced while still seated, head facing forward, watching the shadows dance. NEVER mistake yourself for your shadow, in terms of Plato's Allegory. In context of Jungian, or other mythologies & tools, there is a reality to the "shadow self," in that THIS is who is seated ... and it is ALSO the objects which cast the shadows on the cave wall, to a certain degree. Reality is LAYERED, it is not black & white, or a strict polarity, as some people maintain. We can only ever ask ourseves, what is the Greater Reality ... since there will ALWAYS be one. Perhaps some of this is helpful. If you haven't read Plato's Cave Allegory, in Plato's own writing, then google it. See if it speaks to you. Love & Light, andrew/taijasi

09-11-2006, 01:43 PM	#14 (permalink)
wil UNeyeR1 Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Maryland Posts: 5,651	Re: unredeemable? unredeemable? Not in any stretch of the imagination. May you pay for your transgressions...sure. I believe we are not punished for our sins but by them. Call it a form of karma...but what comes around does go around... But as we choose to grow and change it increases our chances at grace....and when that pendelum swings back we might just not be in that plane any longer... Seeing the error in our ways is always the first step....when we are the ass we don't realize it...when we can see we are an ass that is wonderful. When we decide to no longer be an ass haleluia....when we apologize to others for being an ass, the momemtum is rolling in our favor...and when we truly forgive ourselves for bing an ass...even for decades of assness...we've made major changes. As a friend of mine said to me...'don't dis the path that brought you here'...for it is that path and those stories that you will utlize so well as you grow and assist others to grow...

09-13-2006, 01:32 AM	#15 (permalink)
shadowman Interfaith Forums Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 505	Re: unredeemable? i was definitely sending off many negative vibes into the ether of the universe? mabe i attracted a dark force? maybe a really bad dark force. are these things possible to by revealed or sensed by mystics? eastern or african spiritualists? etc? would i have a mark put on me? what is the mythology surounding this type of thing?

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