Universal temples!

[Popeyesays]

In my faith meditation and prayer are linked. But there are limitations to what prayer and meditation can achieve:
"The meditations of the profoundest thinker, the devotions of the holiest of saints, the highest expressions of praise from either human pen or tongue, are but a reflection of that which hath been created within themselves, through the revelation of the Lord, their God. Whoever pondereth this truth in his heart will readily admit that there are certain limits which no human being can possibly transgress. Every attempt which, from the beginning that hath no beginning, hath been made to visualize and know God is limited by the exigencies of His own creation -- a creation which He, through the operation of His own Will and for the purposes of none other but His own Self, hath called into being. Immeasurably exalted is He above the strivings of human mind to grasp His Essence, or of human tongue to describe His mystery. No tie of direct intercourse can ever bind Him to the things He hath created, nor can the most abstruse and most remote allusions of His creatures do justice to His being. Through His world-pervading Will He hath brought into being all created things. He is and hath ever been veiled in the ancient eternity of His own exalted and indivisible Essence, and will everlastingly continue to remain concealed in His inaccessible majesty and glory. All that is in heaven and all that is in the earth have come to exist at His bidding, and by His Will all have stepped out of utter nothingness into the realm of being. How can, therefore, the creature which the Word of God hath fashioned comprehend the nature of Him Who is the Ancient of Days? "
(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 317-319)

Regards,
Scott

[redindica]

hi all
I havent had time to read the whole thread...but I think the concept of a universal temple is a great one.

The idea that we could worship together from differing faiths would surley be a resounding counter balence to the extremist and fundamentalists that seem to dominate any discussion on religion nowadays.

Peace

[_Z_]

Redindica, hello.

The idea that we could worship together from differing faiths would surley be a resounding counter balance to the extremist and fundamentalists that seem to dominate any discussion on religion nowadays.

I agree but ‘worship’ is where we run in to problems. A philosophy forum attached to religious buildings [or part of], I think is preferable – just so we don’t tread on each others toes y’know!



Z

[I, Brian]

I don't think it's going to be possible to have a universal place of worship for all faiths - there's too much ritual and doctrine involved in worship that it would be difficult to reconcile the sense of sanctity to a general community, in my opinion - though I *think* some UK universities offer a "faith center" where they are used for by different faiths to some degree.

[wil]

I don't think it's going to be possible to have a universal place of worship for all faith

I've been pondering more this utopian concept after posting to the faith v. religion thread...

Wonder how many eons it would take to create an acceptable universal temple? I hate to say it is impossible wouldn't want to negate that. But despite my feelings that each religion came from the same source or the Bahai concept that we are all basically saying the same thing, that we have more similarities than differences...the fact is the differences I think are deal breakers.

Like could a christian go to a place where it Jesus wasn't proclaimed lord and saviour?

Could a Catholic go where Mary wasn't virginal or without origional sin.

Could a Hindu give up all their Gods and stories for one?

So what would this universal service look like?

I think this is why I immediately discounted the original thought and saw in my mind the Theological Mall...a forum where we sat around on couches and discussed all thought, a Bookstore without Borders, containing all religious texts, a number of various sized auditoriums and theaters with interchangeable backdrops to instantly become a sanctuary for anyone who rented the space, the internal portion of the mall, being a large fellowship hall with potluck for all.

But I still would like to explore...what dogma can you relinquish...what would a universal service look like. You can keep your individual thought and prayers to yourself. But what would a service that offends no one look like?

[9Harmony]

Hi everyone!

I haven't read through the entire thread, and i see Scott has mentioned the Baha'i temples, but i don't think he really explained it.
The Baha'i Temples (Mashriqu’l-Adhkár) Literally “the Dawning-place of the praise of God”, are open to people of all faiths.

Devotional programs include the reading of scriptures of all major world religions.

So from my pov, these Universal Temples you mention already exist.

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by 9Harmony

Hi everyone!

I haven't read through the entire thread, and i see Scott has mentioned the Baha'i temples, but i don't think he really explained it.
The Baha'i Temples (Mashriqu’l-Adhkár) Literally “the Dawning-place of the praise of God”, are open to people of all faiths.

Devotional programs include the reading of scriptures of all major world religions.

So from my pov, these Universal Temples you mention already exist.

hi 9Harmony

ok. but are they going to change the name form bahai temple to universal temple? & does it allow tarah cards & magic potions? & what happens when the muslim starts telling the christian that jesus did not die for sin & he is not the son of God?
& what happens when the Jew starts telling the christian Jesus is not the messiah?

& what happens when the christian who wants to shout for joy & the buddha says you are being too loud?
& what happens when the christian starts reading the greatest name is Jesus & the bahai reads the greatest name is 'O Glory of Glories'
um, all these world religions do not believe the same thing.

[Ciel]

And what would happen if all put aside ego inflated ownership, and sat in the stillness and silence of being, might it be possible a new universal life would be born in the realisation of one universal world, with divine guidance of higher love, understanding and compassion.

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by Ciel

And what would happen if all put aside ego inflated ownership, and sat in the stillness and silence of being, might it be possible a new universal life would be born in the realisation of one universal world, with divine guidance of higher love, understanding and compassion.

the universal temple of higher love, compassion & understanding.
hmmm

[9Harmony]

Originally Posted by Bandit

hi 9Harmony

ok. but are they going to change the name form bahai temple to universal temple? & does it allow tarah cards & magic potions? & what happens when the muslim starts telling the christian that jesus did not die for sin & he is not the son of God?
& what happens when the Jew starts telling the christian Jesus is not the messiah?

& what happens when the christian who wants to shout for joy & the buddha says you are being too loud?
& what happens when the christian starts reading the greatest name is Jesus & the bahai reads the greatest name is 'O Glory of Glories'
um, all these world religions do not believe the same thing.

Hi Bandit,

No, the official name is Mashriqu’l-Adhkár, literally “the Dawning-place of the praise of God".

There is no need to change that, that i see.

I completely agree with Ciel's explanation. Thanks Ciel!

[I, Brian]

Originally Posted by 9Harmony

The Baha'i Temples (Mashriqu’l-Adhkár) Literally “the Dawning-place of the praise of God”, are open to people of all faiths.

Devotional programs include the reading of scriptures of all major world religions.

So from my pov, these Universal Temples you mention already exist.

Not really - I should think it presumed that a universal temple respects other faiths equally and without bias.

A Baha'i temple has it's own bias, and cannot but promote that bias at other faiths, no matter the manner in which it is done.

[_Z_]

Well perhaps what this all means is that you need a truly universal religion for a universal temple! Then everyone would have to be of that religion, which would of course defeat the objective.



Even when faced by a wall of flame there is always a way to proceed: open days where e.g. Christians would be welcomed into mosques and vice versa, perhaps a public holiday for a general swapsies – would be a bit like a trip around the maypole! Share and share alike eh!



I can see all blending into one eventually i.e. humanity will not have religion! It is a dualistic concept, as such intelligent beings will surely move away from it. Perhaps it is a circle – we began without religion, and so shall we return, this does not mean any loss in faith imho so i am all for a bloodless gradual spiritual revolution!


Z

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by _Z_

Well perhaps what this all means is that you need a truly universal religion for a universal temple! Then everyone would have to be of that religion, which would of course defeat the objective.



Even when faced by a wall of flame there is always a way to proceed: open days where e.g. Christians would be welcomed into mosques and vice versa, perhaps a public holiday for a general swapsies – would be a bit like a trip around the maypole! Share and share alike eh!



I can see all blending into one eventually i.e. humanity will not have religion! It is a dualistic concept, as such intelligent beings will surely move away from it. Perhaps it is a circle – we began without religion, and so shall we return, this does not mean any loss in faith imho so i am all for a bloodless gradual spiritual revolution!


Z

what if we call it the universal temple of Z and Bandit?
if we dont have religion we probably would not have spirit.

i know one church around here that rents the space out on sunday afternoon to a different religion & that helps the cost for both groups.

maybe each of us are temples & we are our own temple & the universal part is God himself that wants to dwell in us & make us His temple because before He made us he had no people to dwell in or dwell with, & that could be why we want a universal temple.
does that make sense?

[Arizona]

If all the names were taken off the buildings and the such what would be left?

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by _Z_

Universal temples!

Sorry that I may have not answered any posts for a few days - computer trouble y know [I have not been receiving e-mail notifications].

This is very controversial!


In my village there is a church, as a 'paganesque' druid I cannot worship there or even go there just to debate ideas and philosophies. It is fine that others can build their own temples, yet the community cannot afford more, otherwise our ancestors would have built a bigger church! There are muslims and Hindu’s in my village too – and they have to travel to the nearest town to worship!



So what I am saying is this: does the Christian church have the right to dominate/dictate, And to stop other religions from utilising ‘our churches’ in what ever religious means we wish? [within reasonable perameters]



In this multicultural and multi-faith age, is in not time that anyone may worship as they please? And in the same place! [Could be difficult in some respects]. Most churches are half empty, so why not fill them – with people and ideas!

Well it works here doesn’t it, wouldn’t it be great if we had places like this forum but for real!



If not churches, then I hope there comes a day when we will all share universal temples of some kind!



Just something I was thinking about, as my wife was talking about her desire to belong and share with others.



Z

Hi Z,

I'm wondering if you are more concerned about the efficient usage of building space, or more with the integration of different kinds of worship.

With respect to the space, I think others here are correct in pointing out that the space itself is not really very important. Churches can be used for other kinds of meetings when they are not being used for worship. And no, it would not really be appropriate to go to Christian worship and try to raise discusssion about other topics. Worship is not about discussion or education (although a little of that can happen) or personal spiritual needs (although that can happen as well). So Christians could worship in an empty room, and conversely I don't think there is any prohibition about using a church for other types of services even for other faiths (if anyone knows differently I'd be interested in hearing it).

With respect to interfaith or integration of faiths in worship, sounds a lot like the UU approach to religion. Have you checked them out? I find the UUs with a strong Christian slant attractive in many ways, but at the end of the day it seems like once you take out enough to make it paletable to all, religion becomes generic and (to me) meaningless.

I prefer the garden of many different flowers myself.

And CR is great because I can smell and appreciate the beauty of all these different religions. But it occurs to me that what we are doing here at CR, learning and getting to know each other, while very important is quite different from prayer and the rituals of worship.

peace,
lunamoth