Unification of world religions for world peace

[InLove]

Hi--Peace--Me again--

Please be patient--

That last post was also wrong--I guess what I am trying to say is that, according to the Bible I know, and what is in my heart, either Jesus was the Messiah and the Son of God, or he was not a good man or a wise teacher.

I realize this opens up the whole can of worms about whether the Bible records everything correctly, and whether the New Testament belongs with "the Old".

I also realize that I cannot give an answer that will satisfy everyone, if anyone. But it is the only answer I can honestly give.

Blessed are the peacemakers....

InPeace,
InLove

[Blessed87]

I agree, InLove. First, the Scriptures say this: "For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse." Romans 1:20 God didn't just let people die off not knowing He exists, creation shows that He does. It's still a hard question, but I don't claim to know everything (not anymore, anyway, I'm beyond my younger teen years), so I will not attempt to reason why God does not show Himself more clearly to all. He says to us in Isaiah 55:9: "As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts."As for Jesus, He cannot simply be a good man; He said these things:

He then added, "I tell you the truth, you(plural) shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of Man." John 1:55

Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him. John 6:53-56

There are many more, and He clearly says He is much more than a man sent from God.

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by InLove

Hi--Peace--Me again--

Please be patient--

That last post was also wrong--I guess what I am trying to say is that, according to the Bible I know, and what is in my heart, either Jesus was the Messiah and the Son of God, or he was not a good man or a wise teacher.

I realize this opens up the whole can of worms about whether the Bible records everything correctly, and whether the New Testament belongs with "the Old".

I also realize that I cannot give an answer that will satisfy everyone, if anyone. But it is the only answer I can honestly give.

Blessed are the peacemakers....

InPeace,
InLove

i understand what you are saying InLove & I am the same

[Vajradhara]

Namaste in love,


thank you for the post.

hmm... it seems to me that Jesus didn't address the question in quite such a clear fashion.

iirc, and i'm not looking at any of my New Testaments, he didn't refute the question, He stated, i think, why do you ask that of me? only God is good.

of course, as a Christian, this means that Jesus is saying that He is good as Jesus is God.

for a Jew, naturally, this would be the correct answer.. Jesus is not good, as no humans are and only G!D is.

it is an interesting conundrum that appears, in my view.

[InLove]

Thanks, Bandit--I appreciate that. I do seems to talk in circles sometimes when I am not quite sure how to express my thoughts.

Namaste, Vajradhara,

Very thoughtful post. I agree, it is a bit of an enigma as to why in one Scripture Jesus would say (or imply) thatHe was not good(only God is), and in another He says (or implies) that He is, and in still others, he even talks about "good" and "bad" people. (You made me think--I have been looking up these verses in different translations this afternoon when I had extra minutes.) Do you think perhaps that is part of the problem--translation? Hmmm...just thinking.

InPeace,
InLove

[9Harmony]

Originally Posted by InLove

Do you think perhaps that is part of the problem--translation? Hmmm...just thinking.

InPeace,
InLove

YES! that in conjunction with interpretation.


I think this explains so much in the whole scheme of things. I posted the following in another forum and got very little response, which perhaps means people are thinking about it, at least noone argued with me.

(Warning - it's kinda long.)
__________________________

My understanding of the reason there are so many religions is because of man's fallible interpretation of God's guidance, and man's attachments to said interpretations. It's good to remember that the time frame between the appearance of each messenger is anywhere from 500-1200 years. Just think about how differently people 500 years ago were from us today. It's tremendous! 500 years ago, or even 200 years ago, noone would have believed we could circle the globe, or explore space, or communicate with others around the world instantly.

All traces of some of the early religions have vanished. Records of some religions were passed down orally for generations. Some were written down 100's of years later.

Are you familiar with the exercise when you sit in a circle with a bunch of people? The first one whispers something in the next persons ear, then that person whispers it in the next, etc, etc. More often than not, when it gets to the last person and they repeat what they heard, it is nothing like the original message.

imho, This is what happens to religion, but over the course of centuries. Even though written and oral communication is indispensible, it is not infallible. We are not perfect, we are human, we make mistakes, we are very capable of misunderstanding things. Even though we like to think otherwise.

I believe the foundation of each religion is the same. They each teach us to improve our own inner life and character, they came to transform our lives. But each was brought to a different culture/society/age. Each new religion came to renew and strengthen the foundation, and build upon the teachings of the past. Each was brought to an ever-advancing civilization. The differences arise due to the differences of the era, the messenger teaches what the recipients of the time will understand, it is based on our capacity, not theirs. And over time as more and more people embrace the truth of the teachings, they form attachments to their understandings and perceptions of what they believe to be the truth. And through the methods of dissemination of the time, the truth gets obscured, until such time that God decides to send another messenger to renew the foundation of His religion.

When a new messenger comes, very few actually recognize them, they are persecuted intensely by the majority, but there are always a few pure-hearted souls who can see through the what the majority believes will be blatant signs of His arrival. This is never the case. Can you name one religion whose origins are related to glorious displays in the natural world? Even though the prophecies described their coming in glorious language, the actual beginning of each religion can trace it's roots to extremely humble origins. These few pure hearted followers are the only ones of the time that recognized that the prophecies surrounding the messenger are actually fulfilled through a combination of literal and spiritual meanings, and they were able to detach themselves from solely literal expectations. These few are responsible for disseminating the teachings to the rest of the world. What an incredible responsibility! I cannot imagine what these people had to endure, but yet they all managed under the most dire circumstances to succeed in establishing incredible flourishing civilizations based on the fundamentals of their respective religions. No one can honestly believe that the religions as they exist today are exactly the same as they were originally intended. People throughout history have created traditions which they associate with their religion which were not a part of their original teachings, most likely the intent was not to obscure the underlying truths, but to enhance the followers relationship with God. But after 1000 - 2000 years, noone alive can honestly be sure what the truth really is anymore. All religions have to cope with this reality, though none want to admit it.

And we must remember the differences in language, the nuances of ancient languages can get lost in the translation. It is difficult enough just to communicate with others in a language we know well, multiply that exponentially by adding the cultural nuances of the time in addition to translation and interpretation issues as well, and don't forget to take into account that this occurs over 500-1200 years. (that's alot of times around the circle. )

We tend to get attached to certain phrases in the scriptures. i.e. Jesus says He's the way, the Only way. It's human nature to grasp onto a phrase and close off any other options. But most people are not aware that many religions have a similiar phrase contained in their scriptures. My understanding of this particular saying is yes, while their dispensation is at hand, they are the way, until the next messenger comes to renew the foundation. They all foretell of One to come. And then when One comes, the process repeats itself. The messenger is persecuted. A few pure hearted humble souls recognize them and set out to disseminate their teachings, some accept them, some reject them, based on what the recipients expect and whether or not they are attached to the lamp or seek the light itself and are open to accepting the light no matter from what lamp it shines.

History teaches us that above all else we should be humble in what we expect. We should be open to the mysterious ways of God. God knows us better than we know ourselves and He/She continues to lovingly and oh so gently nudge us in the right direction. Yes, there are many paths, but in reality they all merge together, we are just veiled behind the clouds of our attachments.

I believe mankind has been progressing through stages of spiritual development. History shows us that mankind has continually had need of spiritual renewal. Jesus came to fulfill the law of Moses, he told us so, but we neglect to see the significance of that one statement. Mohammed (pbuh) glorified Jesus, and we once again tune out what doesn't mesh with our own ideas of what we expect.

(imho)In reality there is only one religion and one God. But we have separated ourselves from each other due to our own immaturity as a species. But I believe that times are changing, we are maturing, we are beginning to recognize we are one. We are witnessing everyday our interconnectedness and the intricacies of the universe. Once we start recognizing the majesty of this amazing tapestry of existence, and start shedding the veils that blind us, by simply asking God for assistance, with a pure heart and a seeking eye, we will find our hearts desire.

In days past, we had to rely on what others told us. In days past, children grew up never questioning the faith they were raised in. In days past, people believed in their religion and never doubted. In days past, generation after generation after generation never thought to search outside of their own little box. In days past, that was okay, as long as we tried to be the best person we could be. Up until this day, that was the way it had to be. It was difficult to know what was outside the box.

It's human nature to be stubborn and get attached to our ideas, it's human nature to become attached to earthly pursuits, it's human nature to like to stay in our comfort zones, it's human nature to get bogged down in the everyday material world around us. But I believe that we are spiritual beings having a human experience, and as spiritual beings we need to broaden our scope of pursuits. It's our spiritual nature that is our true nature, our real self.

In this day, seekers of truth have opportunities undreamt of in times past. In this day, there is a spiritual awakening going on. In this day, children are questioning the religions of their parents. In this day, people are no longer content to blindly follow the paths of their ancestors. A whole new world exists today. The opportunities available to those of us who want to expand our horizons are unlimited.
_________________________

Comments?

Have a great weekend!

Loving Greetings, Amy

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by InLove

Do you think perhaps that is part of the problem--translation? Hmmm...just thinking.

InPeace,
InLove

i dont think it is a translation problem. if it is, i am throwing the whole book in the garbage. but i have noticed people claim that when they get 'stuck'.
i see it more as a doctrine(s) problem. where we paint the grass blue & the sky green & leave no room for expounding & growing in the Word.
people say things all the time that are not written & they argue over things that are not even in there, yet we are told not to add or take away.
Jesus is everything the bible says He is. Nothing more & nothing less.
just thinking...

[InLove]

Hi, and Peace to All--

Originally Posted by Bandit

i dont think it is a translation problem. if it is, i am throwing the whole book in the garbage. but i have noticed people claim that when they get 'stuck'.
i see it more as a doctrine(s) problem. where we paint the grass blue & the sky green & leave no room for expounding & growing in the Word.
people say things all the time that are not written & they argue over things that are not even in there, yet we are told not to add or take away.
Jesus is everything the bible says He is. Nothing more & nothing less.
just thinking...

I am not suggesting that Truth does not transcend any discrepancies in translation. I believe the Word of God is alive. And I believe what the Word tells me in 2 Timothy 2:15-17: "Be a good worker, one who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly explains the word of truth. Avoid godless, foolish discussions that lead to more and more ungodliness. This kind of talk spreads like cancer…”(NLT). But I also believe it is God’s will for us to bring our minds along in the Spirit and seek to grow in our understanding of His Word---as you.pointed out—to expound in it. So, if we wisely choose our discussions, I believe that not only does He not mind us doing so, but also that He encourages it. John 5:39 states: “Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me”(KJV).

I do believe that the living God watches over His holy, living Word, and that He has given us all we need to know, and has not yet given us what we do not yet need to know. We see “darkly, as through a glass”, for now. But I don’t think He minds my questions, as long as they are sincere and not posed to promote confusion and division. There is “a time to keep and a time to throw away”, and I’m with you, Bandit—I don’t plan to throw my different translations of the written Word in the garbage!

Originally Posted by 9Harmony

Can you name one religion whose origins are related to glorious displays in the natural world? Even though the prophecies described their coming in glorious language, the actual beginning of each religion can trace it's roots to extremely humble origins. These few pure hearted followers are the only ones of the time that recognized that the prophecies surrounding the messenger are actually fulfilled through a combination of literal and spiritual meanings, and they were able to detach themselves from solely literal expectations. These few are responsible for disseminating the teachings to the rest of the world. What an incredible responsibility! I cannot imagine what these people had to endure, but yet they all managed under the most dire circumstances to succeed in establishing incredible flourishing civilizations based on the fundamentals of their respective religions. No one can honestly believe that the religions as they exist today are exactly the same as they were originally intended. People throughout history have created traditions which they associate with their religion which were not a part of their original teachings, most likely the intent was not to obscure the underlying truths, but to enhance the followers relationship with God. But after 1000 - 2000 years, noone alive can honestly be sure what the truth really is anymore. All religions have to cope with this reality, though none want to admit it.

I am not certain that all religions have humble beginnings, but probably most do. And I agree that sometimes people have been so busy looking for glory that we miss the treasures that come in humility. And while human traditions often tend to cloud understanding, I believe that they cannot drown out the Truth that is alive in the Great Spirit. I believe that when we submit ourselves to God, who is pure, holy Love, then we become connected within that Spirit, and it is possible to know the Truth.

Originally Posted by 9Harmony

And we must remember the differences in language, the nuances of ancient languages can get lost in the translation. It is difficult enough just to communicate with others in a language we know well, multiply that exponentially by adding the cultural nuances of the time in addition to translation and interpretation issues as well, and don't forget to take into account that this occurs over 500-1200 years. (that's alot of times around the circle. )

Personally, I cannot imagine that God would not want us to take this into consideration. Why wouldn’t He want us to realize that, indeed, some things that were written long ago specifically addressed the people of certain places and times throughout history. However, I do believe with all my heart, as I said above, that the basic, inherent Truth is still present for every age and all people to discover if we sincerely search for it. I believe this search necessarily involves prayer—asking God to reveal Himself to us.

Originally Posted by 9Harmony

History teaches us that above all else we should be humble in what we expect. We should be open to the mysterious ways of God. God knows us better than we know ourselves and He/She continues to lovingly and oh so gently nudge us in the right direction. Yes, there are many paths, but in reality they all merge together, we are just veiled behind the clouds of our attachments.

I agree. But I am not sure how these different paths will merge—except to say that I believe that when all is revealed, every knee will bow, and the Truth will then be on every tongue.

Originally Posted by 9Harmony

(imho)In reality there is only one religion and one God. But we have separated ourselves from each other due to our own immaturity as a species. But I believe that times are changing, we are maturing, we are beginning to recognize we are one. We are witnessing everyday our interconnectedness and the intricacies of the universe. Once we start recognizing the majesty of this amazing tapestry of existence, and start shedding the veils that blind us, by simply asking God for assistance, with a pure heart and a seeking eye, we will find our hearts desire

.

I don't agree with the "one religion" part of what you said, but I do believe that there is one true God, and that those who earnestly seek Him will find Him. I have a feeling this is what you mean, because you said it so well here.

Originally Posted by 9Harmony

It's human nature to be stubborn and get attached to our ideas, it's human nature to become attached to earthly pursuits, it's human nature to like to stay in our comfort zones, it's human nature to get bogged down in the everyday material world around us. But I believe that we are spiritual beings having a human experience, and as spiritual beings we need to broaden our scope of pursuits. It's our spiritual nature that is our true nature, our real self.

Hear, hear!

9Harmony, I can tell a great deal of positive thought went into this post. Your heart is showing. I don't think I have actually corresponded directly with you before--just want to say that it's nice to finally "meet" you.

InPeace,
InLove

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by InLove

Hi, and Peace to All--

I am not suggesting that Truth does not transcend any discrepancies in translation. I believe the Word of God is alive. And I believe what the Word tells me in 2 Timothy 2:15-17: "Be a good worker, one who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly explains the word of truth. Avoid godless, foolish discussions that lead to more and more ungodliness. This kind of talk spreads like cancer…”(NLT). But I also believe it is God’s will for us to bring our minds along in the Spirit and seek to grow in our understanding of His Word---as you.pointed out—to expound in it. So, if we wisely choose our discussions, I believe that not only does He not mind us doing so, but also that He encourages it. John 5:39 states: “Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me”(KJV).

I do believe that the living God watches over His holy, living Word, and that He has given us all we need to know, and has not yet given us what we do not yet need to know. We see “darkly, as through a glass”, for now. But I don’t think He minds my questions, as long as they are sincere and not posed to promote confusion and division. There is “a time to keep and a time to throw away”, and I’m with you, Bandit—I don’t plan to throw my different translations of the written Word in the garbage!




InPeace,
InLove

aaaahhh, i am relieved aint is awesome! it IS alive. it i so alive & by far the most exciting thing in my life. i read & learn & grow every time & am filled with joy & peace, no other book can do this.
there are times when i can actually hear, the voices of them speaking, as if I am right there in the midst.

you know what else i was thinking about? (along the lines of unification)
the two laws Jesus gave. then i look & wonder if the world was REALLY doing those two laws we would have perfect peace. but obviously we do not, because the world has had to attatch 85 billion global, country, city, state & county laws to those two laws & it is still not working .
so something is not right there.

but there is peace in His Word & in the spirit of the living God & this is what Jesus brought.
it means so much to me when I hear it from others that have found the same thing I have found. The Living Word. (out of our belly shall flow living waters)
Thanks InLove, you made my day

p.s. 2 Timothy 2:15-17 (wink wink).

[InLove]

Hi, Peace to All Here--

Thanks, Bandit--You just made my day, too (had a bit of a disappointment elsewhere tonight--early morning actually). I needed that, and I share your joy--ain't it amazing?

InPeace,
InLove

[earl]

Originally Posted by InLove

Thanks, Bandit--I appreciate that. I do seems to talk in circles sometimes when I am not quite sure how to express my thoughts.

Namaste, Vajradhara,

Very thoughtful post. I agree, it is a bit of an enigma as to why in one Scripture Jesus would say (or imply) thatHe was not good(only God is), and in another He says (or implies) that He is, and in still others, he even talks about "good" and "bad" people. (You made me think--I have been looking up these verses in different translations this afternoon when I had extra minutes.) Do you think perhaps that is part of the problem--translation? Hmmm...just thinking.

InPeace,
InLove

New Testament passages about Jesus and quoatations attributed to him seem to flow in and out of "low" & "high" Christology-Jesus, Son of Man & Jesus, Son of God. It's my interpretation that when Jesus speaks of how he is not good, only God is, he is speaking from his identity as a human-a man-who then attributes all that is good to the Spirit. When he speaks otherwise, he is speaking from full identity with Spirit-is in effect speaking as Spirit.

Take care, Earl

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by earl

New Testament passages about Jesus and quoatations attributed to him seem to flow in and out of "low" & "high" Christology-Jesus, Son of Man & Jesus, Son of God. It's my interpretation that when Jesus speaks of how he is not good, only God is, he is speaking from his identity as a human-a man-who then attributes all that is good to the Spirit. When he speaks otherwise, he is speaking from full identity with Spirit-is in effect speaking as Spirit.

Take care, Earl

I agree with your observation here, earl. And what grace to us for having Jesus our Exemplar and Christ our Saviour.

{{{{{InLove}}}}} (that means hugs to you in internet-speak )

peace,
lunamoth

[9Harmony]

Hi InLove,

Originally Posted by InLove

I am not certain that all religions have humble beginnings, but probably most do. And I agree that sometimes people have been so busy looking for glory that we miss the treasures that come in humility. And while human traditions often tend to cloud understanding, I believe that they cannot drown out the Truth that is alive in the Great Spirit. I believe that when we submit ourselves to God, who is pure, holy Love, then we become connected within that Spirit, and it is possible to know the Truth.

I agree.

Originally Posted by InLove

Personally, I cannot imagine that God would not want us to take this into consideration. Why wouldn’t He want us to realize that, indeed, some things that were written long ago specifically addressed the people of certain places and times throughout history. However, I do believe with all my heart, as I said above, that the basic, inherent Truth is still present for every age and all people to discover if we sincerely search for it. I believe this search necessarily involves prayer—asking God to reveal Himself to us.

I agree again, but how many people do you know who actually do consider this. Not many that I know. But again i agree, we can find the truth if we are open to it. And yes, the first step is asking God to assist us.

Originally Posted by InLove

I agree. But I am not sure how these different paths will merge—except to say that I believe that when all is revealed, every knee will bow, and the Truth will then be on every tongue.

I like your vision. I'll elaborate on this in the next section.

Originally Posted by InLove

I don't agree with the "one religion" part of what you said, but I do believe that there is one true God, and that those who earnestly seek Him will find Him. I have a feeling this is what you mean, because you said it so well here.

I also believe in One God, what i mean by one religion, is that i believe that all religions are from the same God, but through our fallible attempts to understand the varying translations and interpretations we have misunderstood. In regards to the different paths merging into one, this is what i'm referring to. There are strands of truth in all of the great religions, where did this truth originate if not with God. So no matter what path we follow, we are all striving to transform our inner characters to reflect the light of God in our lives. All are traveling at their own path at their own pace, but all will ultimately return to the ocean of God's love.

Originally Posted by InLove

Hear, hear!

Originally Posted by InLove

9Harmony, I can tell a great deal of positive thought went into this post. Your heart is showing. I don't think I have actually corresponded directly with you before--just want to say that it's nice to finally "meet" you.

InPeace,
InLove

Thank you for the kind words. It's nice to finally meet you too.

Have a great day!

Loving Greetings, Amy

[9Harmony]

Originally Posted by earl

New Testament passages about Jesus and quoatations attributed to him seem to flow in and out of "low" & "high" Christology-Jesus, Son of Man & Jesus, Son of God. It's my interpretation that when Jesus speaks of how he is not good, only God is, he is speaking from his identity as a human-a man-who then attributes all that is good to the Spirit. When he speaks otherwise, he is speaking from full identity with Spirit-is in effect speaking as Spirit.

Take care, Earl

Well said!

My understanding is that all of the prophets/messengers speak with 2 distinct voices. One the voice of the human temple, and one the Voice of God for the age in which they appear. So, no wonder, people get confused, it can be a difficult concept to grasp. But once we can get past that hurdle, we can make sense of the seeming contradictions, which really aren't contradictions at all.

Have a great day!

-Amy

[thistle2007uk]

Well here's a thing.
I started off tonight looking for info on Great Britain's historic influence over the middle east and the current bloody mess there. I then found very interesting and mostly infamous details regarding found and lost allegiances throughout the centuries. After reading numerous articles quoting renowned characters (ie Churchill amongst others) about the Mesopotamia conflict ( I do love the way "they" change the name of places in the hope we'll forget.....eg Windscale)
This little thread then led me on to ask "So where's that then?"
Several beers/ hours later plus a smidgen of lateral thinking I then search for a Religious Map of the World and low and behold I find it. Once again very interesting. More significantly though a link to this forum about world peace etc.
Now what is that about I ask myself???
Hippy **** now:
I've always felt that I was part of the Earth really. It may be silly to you but the song by the band SPARKS "Never Turn your Back on Mother Earth" has followed and influenced me since I was 15 or so. As has The Koyanisaqsti Trilogy, Baraka, living and working in Thailand and the slow realisation that everything I seem to have done throughout my life, has led me to find and inadvertently seek a certain way of thinking and being.
Why else have I found myself I here spilling my beans?
The reason for the above is a reply to your wee ditto.
Maybe what I've just written above is the reason for this group, which is great: a place where you can get it off your chest, express how you feel, let it all out man and generally feel good about yourself and the supposed ideal that what you say is the way.
Yeah do all these things, but speak from your heart, don't complicate, don't literalise and please don't for whoever's sake, quote from others.
From the little I know and feel that's not what ITS about.

Paul

PS This is Satanlives.org isn't it?
OH no!!!!!!!!!!!