Understanding the Trinity

[truthseeker]

Hey,

I have read the Nicean Creed but I still don't understand The Trinity. People that I ask about The Trinity always explain it in a fantastical way, which makes me believe that they are just afraid to believe otherwise. From what I have read in the Bible I believe that Jesus was one with God and that the Holy Spirit had consumed any sense he had of self. So I understand it as He being God because God was with Him. But does the flesh make him Son? John 1:1-18 talks about the Word made flesh; He was with God in the beginning.... How can He be God and Son? You all appear to be an open-minded bunch. Can you give me a word?

[Bandit]

are you asking for someone to explain the trinity doctrine or are you asking to understand Jesus, and who he is better?
I believe when we take an in depth look at Jesus from all the scripture, that is when we can better understand God a little bit, and his plan with man.

I believe that Jesus was one with God. He being God because God was with Him

this says it best.

He was with God in the beginning

this will depend on the timing you put the horse in front of the cart and when you decide what beginning John is talking about. God has no beginning.

I dont believe in the 3/1 that way. Some put God into 3 coequal always existing spirits that make one God. I think God is ONE spirit (father & holy ghost is the same spirit, yet manifested in many ways, and Jesus had the spirit of a man and he was made with and for, a special purpose within the time frame of what have in the scriptures. The timeline of man from the bible.
So I will probably be of no help if 3/1 is what you are trying to understand.


Maybe someday I will put out the way I see it in its fulness in a paper for CR to host, then all can read it and decide.

Good luck Truthseeker . Welcome to the boards.

[brucegdc]

Moved to Christianity thread from Belief & Spirituality....

[truth644]

hi t.s.


God, is Triune in essential being, revealed as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. ( I borrowed this from the articles of faith from me church). Here's how i understand it:

He is God, creator of teh universe and author of existence. He is the Son (Jesus) sent to earth so that we might have a frame of reference for how he wants us to live (living as Jesus did as our goal). Finally he is the Holy Spirit, who dwells within all of us waiting to help us live as God wants us to live (If we will just give the steering wheel over to him).

He is all three at the same time yet each individualpart. I know this seems hard to understand, but please remember...you cant expect the creator of the universe to think in the same terms as we do. its like trying to get a commodore 64 to understand windows XP.

I hope this makes some sense. God did promise to reveal himself to those who earnestly and honestly seek to know him. I always believed, but it took a long time to actually BELIEVE and be interested in him.

I hope this helps. this is my first post i hope i didnt go out of any parameters

[lunamoth]

Welcome truth644--you're first post looks good to me .

Hi also to Truthseeker--good question.

truth644's answer sums up my basic understanding of the Trinity as well. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are three Persons and not each other but each are God and God is one. It is not three Gods; it defies logic. It is a mystery.

My simplistic understanding of our recognition of the Trinity is that it is man's experience of God. It's not plain as if Jesus said this is the Trinity, but people experienced God the Father, experienced God the Son, and experienced God the Holy Spirit and conveyed these things in the Bible. The doctrine of the Trinity also says that there is no hierarchy among the Three in One.

I don't understand it, but I believe it.

[lunamoth]

P.S. to truthseeker. It's strange to see you using the avatar you picked just because I used it for almost a year before I found my moth. I enjoyed the eagle (at least I think it's an eagle) and hope it serves you well too.

[truth644]

luna,


u done good....you dont have to understand it....the faith without needing proof if what God has wanted fromus all along. Faith that he has our best interest at heart and faith that his plan is best....even though we cant understand it..

"Lean not on your own uderstanding"

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by truth644

luna,


u done good....you dont have to understand it....the faith without needing proof if what God has wanted fromus all along. Faith that he has our best interest at heart and faith that his plan is best....even though we cant understand it..

"Lean not on your own uderstanding"

Hi truth 644,

Where doctrine doesn't conflict with basic human rights and loving each other as Christ loves us I am more than happy to not lean on my own understanding (or be a fool, as it were).

peace,
lunamoth

[Basstian]

Welcome to the Newmembers (Both Truths)"Great is the mystery" Pauls take on the trinity.

I myself have heard God described as an egg three parts all egg. I dont like that makes it to simple and doesnt take in Diety and authority.

Is Jesus God well that is still a debate for alot of Christians I feel safest saying He is the Son of God with all the authority and power of His Father as Long as He is in His Fathers will (Always Is) He and The Father are one. Thus He is God but still subbmissive to the Father.
I tend to agree with Bandit on the Spirit I dont see a seperate being but rather the spirit of the Father the same Spirit that filled His Son.
There is a great division in Christianity on this subject. Trinity/Oneness/Duality.

The fear is giving authority where it doesnt belong would be considered Idoltary. Placing a created being as an equal to the creator.
One of the Biggest clues I think is Jesus never commanded not to be worshipped. If He had not deserved worship or if it would have been against the Father He would have said not to.

Point being I dont see it as a salvation issue like some do. All three are of One mind. Or Both of them are. Well Maybe He just made it a mystery we will have to wait and see.

[truthseeker]

Thank you all so much for your much appreciated contributions to my understanding. This forum is the best thing since NIV.

Originally Posted by Basstian

The fear is giving authority where it doesnt belong would be considered Idoltary. Placing a created being as an equal to the creator.

That hit a point I wasn't quite aware of within me until you mentioned it. Alot of Christians don't question the Trinity because they don't want to go to hell if it just so happens that Jesus was right.

And then so if it is a Trinity, then why are alot of us just worshipping Jesus? In the Trinity concept, it is acknowledged that Jesus is God in the flesh. In the scriptures Jesus gives all Glory to God. Christians give all Glory to Jesus. Is that God's name now? I pray to God and honor Jesus. I can't pray to only Jesus - I do feel like it is Idolatry. And if that is okay, is anyone just praying to the Holy Spirit? Okay. I'm sliding off the point. Last night I asked a lady what the Trinity is. She said the Trinity is God, three dimensional. God is the Creator of the Universe. Jesus is God, the flesh. The Holy Spirit is God that lives in us and that is everywhere. That calms me down a bit. Alright. But it leaves me abit skeptical. I am Christian because the Gospels has brought balance to my otherwise very confusing existence. If Jesus is God, the flesh -then why do we worship Jesus like that? Jesus still gave all Glory to God.

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by truthseeker

Thank you all so much for your much appreciated contributions to my understanding. This forum is the best thing since NIV.



That hit a point I wasn't quite aware of within me until you mentioned it. Alot of Christians don't question the Trinity because they don't want to go to hell if it just so happens that Jesus was right.

And then so if it is a Trinity, then why are alot of us just worshipping Jesus? In the Trinity concept, it is acknowledged that Jesus is God in the flesh. In the scriptures Jesus gives all Glory to God. Christians give all Glory to Jesus. Is that God's name now? I pray to God and honor Jesus. I can't pray to only Jesus - I do feel like it is Idolatry. And if that is okay, is anyone just praying to the Holy Spirit? Okay. I'm sliding off the point. Last night I asked a lady what the Trinity is. She said the Trinity is God, three dimensional. God is the Creator of the Universe. Jesus is God, the flesh. The Holy Spirit is God that lives in us and that is everywhere. That calms me down a bit. Alright. But it leaves me abit skeptical. I am Christian because the Gospels has brought balance to my otherwise very confusing existence. If Jesus is God, the flesh -then why do we worship Jesus like that? Jesus still gave all Glory to God.

I dont see it like that. It sounds that way, but literally it is not that way. I worship the ONE true God IN, through and by the man Christ Jesus. Yes Jesus did give all glory to God. I see him as Lord in the sense that He is leader and mediator and the door of the sheep. In John 10 it says, Jesus entered in by the door, then he says he is the door of the sheep. Remember the shephard goes before the sheep then the sheep enter and follow after him.
Try looking and focussing on Jesus and what he was about in the scriptures, then we can understand God a little better. Jesus did bare witness of God, but God was IN Jesus.
When we try to understand God from a God only perspective, it will never make sense.
Like Basstian said, Understanding the Godhead or believeing it a certain way is not a requirement for salvation though some claim that it is and that we have to believe it a certain way in order to make heaven.

I think it is good to try and understand it from different perspectives like you are doing but we still have to focus on understanding Jesus because we can see him.
Jesus tried so hard to display the invisible God in his flesh, but on every turn he was persucuted and only a few could actually see that he was manifesting the living God in his life and speech and God was manifesting himself through Jesus.


8:49Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me.
8:50And I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth.
8:51Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.

[truthseeker]

I find peace in your reply, Bandit. Thank You. I'll meditate on that.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by truthseeker

I find peace in your reply, Bandit. Thank You. I'll meditate on that.

I'm just thinking out loud here.

Genesis 1:2 "Now the earth was a shapeless, chaotic mass, with the Spirit of God brooding over the dark vapors."

Genesis 1:26 "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, ..."

Genesis 1:27 "So God created man in his own image...male and female he created them."

Genesis 3:8 "Now the man and his wife heard the sound of the Lord God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day...

Duality, then singularity, with man becoming a duality. God as spirit, and God with physical form, and moving as a man would...

Matthew 3:16 "After his baptism, as soon as Jesus came up out of the water, the heavens were opened to him and he saw the Spirit of God coming down in the form of a dove."

John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

John 1:2 "He was in the beginning with God."

John 1:3 "All things were made through Him, and without Him, nothing was made that was made."

John 1:4 "In Him was Life, and the life was the light of men."

Again, there is that Duality, plus a decree that Jesus?...created the Universe?

John 8:12 "Then Jesus spoke to them again, saying "I am the light of the world; he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life."

We read of the Father and the Word, with the Holy Spirit Hovering.

We See the Son, the Holy Spirit and hear the Voice of the Father at the baptism of Jesus (all at the same time).

Jesus is called and calls Himself the Light, the Word, the way. John calls Jesus the Word being not only God, but being with God.

Perhaps the Trinity can be explained as the Father being the Mind (consciousness of God), the Son being God in the Flesh, and the Spirit of God as, well, the breath of God.

Man is made in the image and likeness of God, and we have a mind, body and spirit, that makes us, us! Our minds and spirits are in our bodies, and our bodies are with our minds and spirits.

hmmm

v/r

Q

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Perhaps the Trinity can be explained as the Father being the Mind (consciousness of God), the Son being God in the Flesh, and the Spirit of God as, well, the breath of God.

Man is made in the image and likeness of God, and we have a mind, body and spirit, that makes us, us! Our minds and spirits are in our bodies, and our bodies are with our minds and spirits.

hmmm

v/r

Q

cool.

[faithfull]

They are separate, but one in purpose.

Gen. 1: 26God said, Let us make man in our image.Gen. 3: 22man is become as one of us, to know good and evil.Matt. 3: 17(Matt. 17: 5; 3 Ne. 11: 7) This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.Matt. 20: 23not mine to give, but . . . of my Father.Matt. 26: 39not as I will, but as thou wilt.Matt. 28: 19(3 Ne. 11: 25) baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.Luke 1: 32called the Son of the Highest.Luke 3: 22Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove.John 5: 19Son can do nothing . . . but what he seeth the Father do.John 8: 18Father that sent me beareth witness of me.John 10: 30I and my Father are one.John 10: 38believe the works . . . that the Father is in me.John 12: 28a voice from heaven, saying, I have . . . glorified it.John 14: 28my Father is greater than I.John 17: 3that they might know thee the only true God.John 17: 21 That they all may be one, as thou, Father, art in me.John 20: 17I ascend unto my Father, and your Father.Acts 2: 33being by the right hand of God exalted.Acts 7: 55saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God.Acts 17: 29not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold.Rom. 1: 20even his eternal power and Godhead.1 Cor. 8: 6to us there is but one God.2 Cor. 4: 4Christ, who is the image of God.Eph. 3: 14I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord.Col. 1: 15image of the invisible God, the firstborn.Col. 2: 9dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.Heb. 1: 2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son.1 Jn. 5: 7three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost