U.S. Air Force Takes a Look at Teleportation

[pohaikawahine]

Originally Posted by wil

Just browsing and found this thread....

A couple months ago I listened to an interview (scroll down to November 6th 2005) with Edgar Mitchell, 6th Astronaut to step on the moon, and the studies he was involved in with NASA on ESP during the Apollo flights. He went on to found the Institute of Noetic Sciences http://www.noetic.org/

the military (not only the U.S. but others as well) have always been involved in various forms of the esoteric sciences .... there were the "psychic spies" who were trained to use their minds to go to other places and "see" with the inner eyes .... it has actually been studies and tested more than most of us know....the real point is that we are more than we know we are and we all have capabilities that we have forgotten how to tap into .... and to my way of thinking, many of our ancient texts tell us how to achieve our full potential as human beings and how to use our inner eyes ....but that is anothe story.

the Institute of Noetic Sciences is an interesting group of people and they as a group are constantly looking at ways to improve the lot of mankind through peaceful means and self-mastery of our full potential .... I worked for about 2 years with a group from the Institute of Noetic Sciences in an on-line effort to develop a book for the youth of our world using what we described as a leaderless process to design and develop the book .... there were 17 of us and we are still in touch .... it was a fun effort and while we didn't produce anything earthshaking, it was completed and is still growing .... people add to its pages through the web ....

it doesn't suprise me in the least that the air force would be looking at teleportation .... and it won't surprise me if they find it works .... what would surprise me is if they make it public .... the more they learn, about the potential we all have as people, the deeper they take it underground and try to hold on to the knowledge .... this has been, in my view, the problem with many religions .... the true knowledge has been taken underground and held by those that want others to look to them for power instead of finding it within ourselves .... just my thoughts to share .... he hawai'i au, pohaikawahine p.s. how many theories are there about how those large heads were moved on Easter Island (Rapa Nui) .... well the old ones will simply tell you that they were transported by sound alone, they were teleported, by a circle of elders ..... but they don't talk any more about these things because people have lost their imagination and their ability to use the full power of the mind ....

[wil]

Next time you flip open you cell phone to make a call...think "Kirk to Enterprise..." via 1959.

and here I am still waiting for my wrist two way communicator made popular by Dick Tracy in '46, or the two way video he got in '64...

[Druweid]

Originally Posted by wil

and here I am still waiting for my wrist two way communicator made popular by Dick Tracy in '46, or the two way video he got in '64...

Um, it's been around longer than you think.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/ptech/0...stwatch.phone/

and here:

http://www.livingroom.org.au/camerap...hone_watch.php

Okay, so the TWC 1150 isn't exactly there yet, but we're getting close!

-- Druweid

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by pohaikawahine

the military (not only the U.S. but others as well) have always been involved in various forms of the esoteric sciences .... there were the "psychic spies" who were trained to use their minds to go to other places and "see" with the inner eyes .... it has actually been studies and tested more than most of us know....the real point is that we are more than we know we are and we all have capabilities that we have forgotten how to tap into .... and to my way of thinking, many of our ancient texts tell us how to achieve our full potential as human beings and how to use our inner eyes ....but that is anothe story.

the Institute of Noetic Sciences is an interesting group of people and they as a group are constantly looking at ways to improve the lot of mankind through peaceful means and self-mastery of our full potential .... I worked for about 2 years with a group from the Institute of Noetic Sciences in an on-line effort to develop a book for the youth of our world using what we described as a leaderless process to design and develop the book .... there were 17 of us and we are still in touch .... it was a fun effort and while we didn't produce anything earthshaking, it was completed and is still growing .... people add to its pages through the web ....

it doesn't suprise me in the least that the air force would be looking at teleportation .... and it won't surprise me if they find it works .... what would surprise me is if they make it public .... the more they learn, about the potential we all have as people, the deeper they take it underground and try to hold on to the knowledge .... this has been, in my view, the problem with many religions .... the true knowledge has been taken underground and held by those that want others to look to them for power instead of finding it within ourselves .... just my thoughts to share .... he hawai'i au, pohaikawahine p.s. how many theories are there about how those large heads were moved on Easter Island (Rapa Nui) .... well the old ones will simply tell you that they were transported by sound alone, they were teleported, by a circle of elders ..... but they don't talk any more about these things because people have lost their imagination and their ability to use the full power of the mind ....

The problem the AirForce (and anyone experimenting with teleportation of complex constructs), would come up against is the Heisenburg "uncertainty" principle. That is there is no way to tell where every atom is at any one time, or what it is doing at a particular point in time. Computers and scanners can determine one or the other, but not both at the same time.

Case in point would be (if it is accurate), the attempt to teleport a block of carbon from one point to another. According to "lore", the carbon block dis-appeared from one spot and appeared at another, however it was no longer in block form. It was merely a pile of carbon.

v/r

Q

[path_of_one]

Yes, Q- I'd say what I've heard about attempted teleportation is in the "lore" category, but it goes along with what you are saying. I had heard a few years back that France was experimenting with this, and they could take something apart and move it, but it wouldn't reassemble itself properly. That seems to be the biggest problem if the "lore" is correct.

As to the powers of mind, who knows? I don't discount the idea that teleportation is possible, but I've yet to hear a credible account. Most of the stuff people want to say had to be teleported (i.e., the blocks of rock for pyramids and temples, the stones at Stonehenge, etc.) actually could have been the result of simple, hard work with basic tools like levers and rolling stones on logs. It's amazing what people can accomplish simply through physical effort. I've heard a variety of people on the internet on esoteric sites claim they've teleported themselves, but I'll remain (highly) skeptical until I see or experience something like that. It seems like the energy required to do that would be astronomical, and then how are you put together elsewhere?

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by path_of_one

Yes, Q- I'd say what I've heard about attempted teleportation is in the "lore" category, but it goes along with what you are saying. I had heard a few years back that France was experimenting with this, and they could take something apart and move it, but it wouldn't reassemble itself properly. That seems to be the biggest problem if the "lore" is correct.

As to the powers of mind, who knows? I don't discount the idea that teleportation is possible, but I've yet to hear a credible account. Most of the stuff people want to say had to be teleported (i.e., the blocks of rock for pyramids and temples, the stones at Stonehenge, etc.) actually could have been the result of simple, hard work with basic tools like levers and rolling stones on logs. It's amazing what people can accomplish simply through physical effort. I've heard a variety of people on the internet on esoteric sites claim they've teleported themselves, but I'll remain (highly) skeptical until I see or experience something like that. It seems like the energy required to do that would be astronomical, and then how are you put together elsewhere?

I have figured out the problem. The solution, however is another matter altogether.

The computer needed to calculate both the position of atoms and what they are doing at a particular point in time, must be a parallel as opposed to serial, type computer. To jump to the chase, this computer must act like the human mind, but be as fast as a serial computer.

The internet, approximates such a computer (though too slow and distracted). Bear with me here for a moment. If every computer linked to the internet were to focus on one set of unique data requirements, then send that information to a central point of execution (and if they all were coordinated to do so at once), we might just be able to teleport an object from one place in space/time to another, in more or less the same condition, as it was before teleportation began.

This is with today's computers I might add. With tomorrow's computers linked web wide, we could feasably teleport a life form, instantaneously from one place to another. Not only that, but we could "correct" physical anomolies within that life form, and we could keep that life form's pattern in a buffered memory...

Of course this leads to ethics and morality (as usual). I mean, if I have a pattern of someone, what stops me from duplicating that pattern into another someone that is identical to the first? And the second "someone"...who's spirit/soul would he have? If any...

Now the concept of God would come into play. Are we unique, or just a patterned life form?

Like the three laws of robotics, we would have to come up with the laws of telportation.

1.A buffered pattern could only be used once (upon successful completion of the teleportation of an individual, the buffered pattern would be erased. If not, then clones could be created (and considered as less than human).

2. A person's buffered pattern can not be held in order to regenerate an individual who has died. That would destroy the humanity of the individual (dignity of the uniqueness of the person), and again we would have a clone.

3. Teleportation must not be used to restore an individual to a previous state of health (buffered pattern again), as the resulting individual would not be the same person as before. Healed physically? perhaps. Memory intact? no. Same person? no.

Why do I bring this up, and present such dismal issues? We now have the capability to do all of the above (albiet roughly). In short order we will be able to refine the technique (or should I say, capable).

We can map DNA, of an individual, and isolate them from others. We can scan the human body, down to the last molecule. We can isolate a particular molecule of a human body and observe its actions. We can transport/teleport parts of a subject matter with series based computers. We do have a working model of a parallel based computer system. We are curious, and we have those who are less than honorable.

Got news for y'all. If I can put two and two together, what makes you think others much smarter than me can't?

my thoughts

v/r

Q

[alexa]

Hello Q,

Did you know human cloning is as per FDA's rules under the Public Health Service Act and the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act since 1998 ? A sponsor who wants to perform a research on human cloning has to submit for an IND (Investigation of a New Drug application form). In other words, clones are new drugs.

I still dream I could teleporte myself wherever I wish to go. No need to gas anymore.

[Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine]

Miowrrowrrowr! (:kitty: for "Alexa!")

*alexa finds herself thoroughly pounced by the IF cattery, each vying for her attention, the "Oriental" pure/mixed breeds more vocal than the rest*

Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine

[alexa]

*Alexa looks around her and take the wiskas bag from the counter: I know, I know little kitties, you're hungry again *

I got your mail, thanks Phyllis.

[Dondi]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Forgive me if I misread you Alexa. Gene Roddenbery invented Star Trek, as well as Andromeda and Earth, Final Conflict (tv series). The First Star Trek pilot episode (produced by Desilu productions...Lucy and Desy Anrez of I Love Lucy) was created in 1964. The Title was called the "Menagerie", and had Captain Christopher Pike as the Commanding officer as well as (GOD FORBID) LOL, a woman as his Executive Officer. Remember, in 1964 women did not hold such high positions in anything official, let alone the military...

Roddenbery took his idea for a "Starship", and Starfleet from his most favorite "military agency" (The United States Coast Guard). If you look at the hull of starships, you'll notice that they are all pearl white, with red and blue stripes around the saucer perimeter (a passing salute to the Coast Guard).

In a documetary, Mr. Roddenbery admits, that his concept was based on the services and function of the Coast Guard. He thought that service was the best service the US could portray (because of its dominant theme of humanitarian service to the world at large).

He foresaw:

cell phones
lap top computers
Padds
Hypo spray injectors instead of needles
man's life extended to 140 years (average)
women in command
One world government
diagnostic medical beds
MRIs (now real)
CT scans (now real)
worm holes
black holes (now proven)
time travel
GPS technology (Global positioning System technology)
interrace blending
the ban on smoking cigarettes
same sex unions
genetic manipulation
invitro fertilization
euthenasia
abortion on demand
Russia's change to Democracy
The United States, Mexico, and Canada becoming one nation
World War III (based on a super race of humans genetically enhanced, from the Asian/Middle Eastern continent)
water becoming an energy source (Fuel cells)
Ion Propulsion (which is now a reality)
matter/energy transfer (transporter technology which is now proven)

...the list goes on and on.

Next time you flip open you cell phone to make a call...think "Kirk to Enterprise..." via 1959.

BTW, Rodenberry's 2nd wife is Majel Barrett (she was #1, the executive officer, in the first pilot, and Nurse Chapel in the original series, and Deanna Troy's mother in the Next Generation...as well as the computer voice of the Enterprise for all of the series').

v/r

Q

Just a couple of nitpicks (yes, I'm a Trekkie). The first pilot was actually called "The Cage" and starred Jeffery Hunter in the lead of Pike. Th pilot, which NBC didn't like because they wanted an "action" pilot, was later included as a two-part episode called "The Menagerie" during the regular series run, involving a story in which Mr. Spock (who also appeared in the pilot) commits treason for attempting to bring Captian Pike back to Talos IV.

Also, Gene Roddenbury didn't have the name Captain Kirk back in 1959. I believe the original name he had in mind was Captian April.

And now back to your regularly scheduled programming......which ought to be Star Trek.

[Dondi]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

I have figured out the problem. The solution, however is another matter altogether.

The computer needed to calculate both the position of atoms and what they are doing at a particular point in time, must be a parallel as opposed to serial, type computer. To jump to the chase, this computer must act like the human mind, but be as fast as a serial computer.

The internet, approximates such a computer (though too slow and distracted). Bear with me here for a moment. If every computer linked to the internet were to focus on one set of unique data requirements, then send that information to a central point of execution (and if they all were coordinated to do so at once), we might just be able to teleport an object from one place in space/time to another, in more or less the same condition, as it was before teleportation began.

This is with today's computers I might add. With tomorrow's computers linked web wide, we could feasably teleport a life form, instantaneously from one place to another. Not only that, but we could "correct" physical anomolies within that life form, and we could keep that life form's pattern in a buffered memory...

Of course this leads to ethics and morality (as usual). I mean, if I have a pattern of someone, what stops me from duplicating that pattern into another someone that is identical to the first? And the second "someone"...who's spirit/soul would he have? If any...

Now the concept of God would come into play. Are we unique, or just a patterned life form?

Like the three laws of robotics, we would have to come up with the laws of telportation.

1.A buffered pattern could only be used once (upon successful completion of the teleportation of an individual, the buffered pattern would be erased. If not, then clones could be created (and considered as less than human).

2. A person's buffered pattern can not be held in order to regenerate an individual who has died. That would destroy the humanity of the individual (dignity of the uniqueness of the person), and again we would have a clone.

3. Teleportation must not be used to restore an individual to a previous state of health (buffered pattern again), as the resulting individual would not be the same person as before. Healed physically? perhaps. Memory intact? no. Same person? no.

Why do I bring this up, and present such dismal issues? We now have the capability to do all of the above (albiet roughly). In short order we will be able to refine the technique (or should I say, capable).

We can map DNA, of an individual, and isolate them from others. We can scan the human body, down to the last molecule. We can isolate a particular molecule of a human body and observe its actions. We can transport/teleport parts of a subject matter with series based computers. We do have a working model of a parallel based computer system. We are curious, and we have those who are less than honorable.

Got news for y'all. If I can put two and two together, what makes you think others much smarter than me can't?

my thoughts

v/r

Q

There is another problem. How would the human soul be transported to the "new' body as well?

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Dondi

Just a couple of nitpicks (yes, I'm a Trekkie). The first pilot was actually called "The Cage" and starred Jeffery Hunter in the lead of Pike. Th pilot, which NBC didn't like because they wanted an "action" pilot, was later included as a two-part episode called "The Menagerie" during the regular series run, involving a story in which Mr. Spock (who also appeared in the pilot) commits treason for attempting to bring Captian Pike back to Talos IV.

Also, Gene Roddenbury didn't have the name Captain Kirk back in 1959. I believe the original name he had in mind was Captian April.

And now back to your regularly scheduled programming......which ought to be Star Trek.

Captain Robert April... And in order to get an agent's attention with his script Roddenberry drove his police motorcylce either up to a bar, or into the bar, walked up the agent and slapped the manuscript on his chest and said "You had better read it, all of it". Then promptly walked out and drove away.

"The Cage" never aired on tv (until the 30th anneversary of ST). In fact when it finally did air, it was partially in black and white and missing some of the special effects and sounds at times, because they had scrapped it. Some one did alot of work picking pieces from the scraps on the floor and combining them with the part that was the "Menagerie". I have a copy of it.

The First official airing of ST was on 8 September 1966, and was titled "The Man Trap". Dr. McCoy falls for a salt sucker...(lol)

v/r

Q

[wil]

Originally Posted by Dondi

There is another problem. How would the human soul be transported to the "new' body as well?

As the soul found its way into this body...I would think the soul would have less trouble keeping up than the parts would...

The intersting thing I remember reading about what they are currently accomplishing is they aren't teleporting anything...tis more like faxing or emailing a picture...I read about some arrangement of molecules being relayed to another space where the machine at the other end grabbed available molecules and arranged them in a simliar fashion...

So the sending station retains the origional....yikes...

[taijasi]

I'm coming into this late, but have been waiting to see if my points might be relevant ... and now they are. First off, Appollonius of Tyana is just one example of various figures throughout history (Count Allessandro Cagliostro is another) who have supposedly demonstrated the capacity of "bi-location." Accounts were recorded which indicated his presence in literally more than one place at the same time. I find no trouble believing this whatsoever.

Second, to say a bit more in the same vein as Poh (post #16), there is a higher siddhi (psychic ability) spoken about in esoteric teachings (and the Vedas too, I should imagine), called kriyashakti - roughly, the "power to make." One definition reads as follows:

" `Kriyasakti - the mysterious power of thought which enables it to produce external, perceptible, phenomenal results by its own inherent energy. The ancients held that any idea will manifest itself externally if one's attention (and Will) is deeply concentrated upon it; similarly, an intense volition will be followed by the desired result' "

An idea or ability that goes hand-in-hand with kriyashakti, is the advanced ability to create a mayavirupa - or "body of illusion." When these are combined, an adept or advanced yogi is capable of appearing twice in the same room if s/he so desires. And there are accounts of this having happened, and having been witnessed by a large group of people, as recently as 75 years ago. To my knowledge, no one has dared to attempt this in public, however, or before a camera (curious to know - would the camera "see" the illusion too? hmmm ...) - nor are they likely to, for some time to come.

Third, I could not begin to fully understand the methodology involved in creating a mayavirupa, although it's not as beyond us as we might think. Astrally, the ability is not so rare, but to create one physically, though, is perhaps a bit more challenging. This leads to something I wanted to say relevant to the issue of "faxing" substance, and the soul question, which is also a consideration in cloning. If we're contemplating the mayavirupa, only one manifestation would be "real;" the other would be a copy, perhaps particle by particle (with just enough composition to convey the illusion - and not a particle more). It's the reason there can be only one true manifestation that matters here ...

Occult teachings have presented for over a hundred years that our entire physical organism is "rebuilt" in each new incarnation - save for one particle (or technically, three). This is termed the "permanent atom," and it is said to accompany us throughout each one of many thousands of human incarnations - but not into the great beyond, since it is "dropped" once we finally leave Earth's evolution. The atom being spoken of is an occult atom, which corresponds - to the best of my ability to discern - to science's electron, or perhaps even a quark. Either way, I've posted about it on other threads, and its image can be googled under "Babbitt's atom."

Details aside, I believe this idea would solve the problem of the soul. The atom is not the soul, but it is regarded as the "mechanism," or material connection, between the soul and the body. In considering teleportation, which goes on every day without the use of any material technology whatsoever, we really only need to ask ourself - how would the permanent physical atom be transferred? Permanent atoms also exist upon the astral plane (our emotional component), the mental, and the spiritual planes. I know, this is a secular forum, but do you think the Air Force wouldn't be interested in any tradition - especially recent studies conducted under scientific conditions - which talks about these things?

The solution to part of the issue, it seems to me, has already been hinted at by wil, just now:

Originally Posted by wil

The intersting thing I remember reading about what they are currently accomplishing is they aren't teleporting anything...tis more like faxing or emailing a picture...I read about some arrangement of molecules being relayed to another space where the machine at the other end grabbed available molecules and arranged them in a simliar fashion...

If I may be so bold, this is exactly what the adept or advanced yogi does, during the creation of a mayavirupa, using kriyashakti. The process has been described in detail, in fairly careful, scientific terms, in even the older Theosophical writings. What is not explained, for obvious reasons, is how to "come by" the abilities necessary to "project" one's permanent atom to another location. So, even if we figured out how to coalesce the other 99.999999% of the body's substance on the other end, we would have to solve the problem of this one atom. I do not know when science will discover this ... but any failure to bear this in mind, would kill the (human) creature being teleported.

Last point is quite related. Every religious teaching indicates the presence of even a "physical soul," let alone astral bodies, Spiritual bodies, and so forth. I prefer the Hebrew term nephesh, myself - or breath of life. There is nothing thinking, feeling, or really "spiritual" about the nephesh ... except that it is one small portion of the vast field (again, this is the scientific term that is increasingly gaining credibility, as in morphogenetic fields) in which we live, and move, and have our being - Planet Earth. We do not separate from the nephesh (or "etheric body") during life, for to do so, is by definition, death. When we astral travel, the nephesh, along with the dense physical body, are both left behind. Travel in the etheric body is not possible!

So this presents us with another problem, or a more complicated version of the "permanent atom" problem. Not only must we make sure to relocate the permanent atom, but we must also ensure that the etheric body itself is reproduced. And since even our finest scientific equipment is still not capable of fully registering all the substance of the etheric body, how will we solve this problem? Again, I feel certain they'll kill plenty of monkeys, and perhaps people, before they figure this one out - without a signficant breakthrough.

Theoretically, the nephesh, too, could be reconstructed on the other end, since it, too, is "material" - just very, very fine. But the animating principle, which is the true breath of life - called prana, chi, elan vital, or simply "life itself" (physically) ... AHA! This we cannot duplicate, and as yet do not have the knowledge to "summon," although I do not doubt the military is working on it. When the question of cloning is considered, we do not have to solve this problem, since my best guess would be that the vital field already exists inseparably with any genetic material that is taken, and used for the clone. It just grows naturally (or develops, would be the better word). The question of the individual soul, and permanent atoms, for sheep - is non-existent, since neither are present, to the best of my knowledge. In the case of an individualized (highly evolved) cat, dog, elephant or monkey, however ... hmmmm, now I'm not so sure. But I do know, that if you are rich, you can already get a "RE-Pet." Very, very scary - but I find myself asking, How?

cheers,

andrew

[Dondi]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Captain Robert April... And in order to get an agent's attention with his script Roddenberry drove his police motorcylce either up to a bar, or into the bar, walked up the agent and slapped the manuscript on his chest and said "You had better read it, all of it". Then promptly walked out and drove away.

"The Cage" never aired on tv (until the 30th anneversary of ST). In fact when it finally did air, it was partially in black and white and missing some of the special effects and sounds at times, because they had scrapped it. Some one did alot of work picking pieces from the scraps on the floor and combining them with the part that was the "Menagerie". I have a copy of it.

The First official airing of ST was on 8 September 1966, and was titled "The Man Trap". Dr. McCoy falls for a salt sucker...(lol)

v/r

Q

However, "The Man Trap" was actually the fifth episode shot. "Where No Man Has Gone Before" was the second pilot and featured Kirk, Spock, Scottie, Sulu (as a biologist, not helmsman), but no "Bones".

I viewed the original "The Cage" that was released for the special. It was refreshing to see it in the context of the pilot rather than in the wrap around story in "The Menagerie". Still, "The Menagrie" won the coveted Hugo award. It was ST:TOS's only two-part episode.

Two good books on ST:TOS are "The Making of Star Trek" by Stephen E. Whitfield and "The World of Start Trek" by David Gerrold, If they are still in print or available.