Turn the Other Cheek

[Obvious Child]

I think the important thing is that it is neither running nor retaliating. The clear modern example of this is Gandhi: he went out of his way to confront his opponents but would not fight against them. It is believed in on principle: but it is also a very effective method in many circumstances.

As for literal/metaphor, I would say it was both. It is a particular illustration of a general principle.

In the religious sense, it seems to be about not letting another's actions make you do wrong. It also helps stop the cycle of resentment and violence.

[taijasi]

Originally Posted by Obvious Child

I think the important thing is that it is neither running nor retaliating. The clear modern example of this is Gandhi: he went out of his way to confront his opponents but would not fight against them. It is believed in on principle: but it is also a very effective method in many circumstances.

As for literal/metaphor, I would say it was both. It is a particular illustration of a general principle.

In the religious sense, it seems to be about not letting another's actions make you do wrong. It also helps stop the cycle of resentment and violence.

Thank you, Obvious Child. You just reminded me about Gandhi's Salt March in 1930.

WOW

andrew

[zoser]

There is more you can do to help after he hits that wall Quahom1. You could help him up,brush him off,take care of his injuries and forgive him.

[taijasi]

Originally Posted by zoser

There is more you can do to help after he hits that wall Quahom1. You could help him up,brush him off,take care of his injuries and forgive him.

One of my favorite scenes in the movie King of Kings (which is my favorite about the life of Christ), is when the crazed guy more or less lunges at Jeffrey Hunter - in rage, confusion, anger, fear, who knows. The way that Christ receives him, quietly & gently subdues him, and returns him to the here & now ... is something worth seeing, even just in that movie. I believe it gets very much, visually, literally & symbolically, to the heart of what you've said, Q, and zoser.

andrew

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by zoser

There is more you can do to help after he hits that wall Quahom1. You could help him up,brush him off,take care of his injuries and forgive him.

I agree. But it my observation that a man cannot accept forgiveness, while he is angry. He must come to a point where his soul is quiet for a moment, so that he can hear what is being offered him. And he must be tired enough of being angry that he is willing to consider an alternative, or something better than his current condition.

We can forgive someone in our own hearts, long before we offer it to the other. It is simply a matter of timing. Jesus forgave us before He arrived on the scene. It was we who had to finally accept that offer of forgiveness. And we couldn't until we ran ourselves into our own brick wall, and stopped to see the damage we were causing ourselves. It is only then that we ask ourselves "What have I done?", then spin around searching for someone to help us, expecting the help to be gone (human nature), only to find that Jesus standing there, saying "I'm still here, and the offer still stands".

And what is the first thing we do when we realize the thruth of that?

We blink, and are astounded. And at that moment, most of us do alot of growing and maturing in an instant. We put away childish things, because we become adults in our spirit.

BTW Taij, I enjoyed Jeffrey Hunter's version as well. He also played a good Herculese and Captain Christopher Pike of the...starship Enterprise

v/r

Q

[BlaznFattyz]

turn the other cheek means to forgive others, to not take vengeance, to love one another, to pray for others, to humble oneself.

it does not mean be somebody's punching bag, or to not protect your family or country, or to be passively defiant and stubborn.

i would not use ghandi or martin luther king jr. or buddha as an example for peace when there is jesus christ to use as an example. jesus was without sin and the son of god; the others were just men with our faults.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

turn the other cheek means to forgive others, to not take vengeance, to love one another, to pray for others, to humble oneself.

it does not mean be somebody's punching bag, or to not protect your family or country, or to be passively defiant and stubborn.

i would not use ghandi or martin luther king jr. or buddha as an example for peace when there is jesus christ to use as an example. jesus was without sin and the son of god; the others were just men with our faults.

I believe therein lies the crux of the matter. To forgive one that is hated, is extremely difficult to do, and that is where Jesus steps in. We can't do it by ourselves (it goes against our very nature). We can't even forgive someone who cuts us off on the road...and we don't know them but for an instant...

But as simple as that, is the answer. If we let it ride, we have turned the other cheek. It wasn't a passive/aggresive maneuver on our part. It was a choice not to expand an issue beyond current proportions. If someone takes the parking spot we've been waiting for for five minutes, and we let it ride (I mean is it really worth it to blow a blood vessel over?), then we turn the other cheek. If our boss has the wrong idea about our work ethic, and comes down on us, do we get defensive and try to fight back? No. We ask, what we have done wrong, and how we can improve (we turn the other cheek).

If on the other hand, someone comes directly after us in a menacing manner, we stand fast to defend ourselves...that has nothing to do with turning the other cheek. That is survival. After all is said and done, we can consider forgiveness. (Adrenaline and forgiveness is like oil and water...one can try and mix them, but eventually they will seperate).

v/r

Q

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by seattlegal

Here is an illustration of a possible misapplication of the concept, but only because of the attitude displayed. It should be done in a spirit of mildness, but mildness can be a relative concept, depending upon the circumstances involved. In a very hostile environment, this example might be considered very mild.

that illustration fits me. ...aint seeing nothing but the tail lights...i mean moon light.
that was a good one, seattlegal.

[taijasi]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

After all is said and done, we can consider forgiveness. (Adrenaline and forgiveness is like oil and water...one can try and mix them, but eventually they will seperate).

Q, this part of what you said reminded me of part of the training I once had (I've had it many times, actually - and in a way, we all have it every single day of our lives) ... on how to be a Totally Responsible Person ("TRP"). Part of a presentation from one of my teachers went thus:

[There are many who] recognize that "It has got to stop somewhere." They know intuitively what our elders have told us - what goes around comes around. They know that for an individual, or a civilization, to progress, a moment must occur when we stop blaming, judging, criticizing, venting our anger, harboring resentments and thoughts of revenge, and insisting that others apologize and take responsibility for what they have done to us. They know, as a panelist said on Meet the Press the day before the Million Man March, that "the oil of blame and the water of responsibility don't mix." They know that if we don't accept responsibility for every action we take and negative emotion we have, that the out flowing anger, resentment, etc. will continue to go around and come back to us creating more opportunities to learn until we get the message. Like the hero in the movie Groundhog Day, they know that we'll keep getting tested with opportunities until we get it right, i.e., that the cycle of negative emotions must eventually stop with us. They know that we must own every negative reaction, externally and internally, and acknowledge that it is self-created. Only full acceptance of this will change that negative emotional state to something more creative and productive. Their lives illustrate that they have done just that.


As Dolly Parton's character reminded us in the movie Straight Talk,
we must "Get off the cross, honey, somebody might need the wood."

I highlighted the part that you triggered in my memory, and now you can see the association with the Dolly Parton quote, as well.

Shalom,

andrew

[juantoo3]

bump for relevence to another thread

[Prober]

Originally Posted by juantoo3

bump for relevence to another thread

Had no idea...Thanks, Juantoo!

[17th Angel]

I would never turn the other cheek in fear of that one also being slapped.

[mee]

Jesus was not teaching pacifism or denying the right of self-defense from bodily harm, but he was teaching that a Christian does not need to pay back blow for blow, retaliating, taking vengeance. He was inculcating the principle of avoiding quarrels by not replying or reacting in kind. A slap on the cheek is not intended to injure physically but only to insult or to provoke into a fight. Jesus did not say that if someone strikes a Christian on the jaw, he should get up off the floor and hold the other side of his face for a target. What Jesus was saying was that if anyone tried to provoke a Christian into a fight or argument by either slapping him with an open hand or stinging him with insulting words, it would be wrong to retaliate. This is in harmony with the statements of the apostles, giving further emphasis to this principle.—Ro 12:17-21; 1Pe 3:9.

[Prober]

Originally Posted by mee

Jesus was not teaching pacifism or denying the right of self-defense from bodily harm

I disagree. There is no point to retaliation of any kind.

If you obey God, you're going to heaven.

Of what consequence is some pain in this life?

This life is a vapor...

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by mee

he was teaching that a Christian does not need to pay back blow for blow, retaliating, taking vengeance.

Shouldn't "pay back" blow for blow? But doesn't the bible say to pay what is owed? Some one smacks me.... Oh they just got granted an I.O.U....