Truth is a Pathless Land- K and Steiner

[Bruce Michael]

K.'s speech interspersed with quotes from Rudolf Steiner's "Theosophy".

J. Krishnamurti:

> I maintain that Truth is a pathless land, and you cannot approach it
by any path whatsoever, by any religion, by any sect. That is my point of
> view, and I adhere to that absolutely and unconditionally. Truth, being
> limitless, unconditioned, unapproachable by any path, whatsoever, cannot be organized, nor should any organization be formed to lead or to >coerce people along any particular path.

STEINER
Man searches in his soul for truth; and through this truth it is not only
the soul that speaks, but the things of the world. That which is
recognised as truth by means of thought has an independent significance,
which refers to the things of the world, and not merely to one's own soul.

J. Krishnamurti
>If you first understand that, then you will see, how impossible it is to organize a belief. A belief is purely an individual matter, and you cannot and must not organize it. If you do, it becomes dead, crystallized, it becomes a creed, a sect, a religion, to be imposed on others. This is what everyone throughout the world is attempting to do.
> Truth is narrowed down and made a plaything for those who are weak, for those who are only momentarily discontented. Truth cannot be brought
down, rather the individual must make the effort to ascend to it.

STEINER

In my delight in the starry heavens I live in my own inner being; the
thoughts which I form for myself about the paths of heavenly bodies have
the same significance for the thinking of every other thinking person as
they have for mine.

J. Krishnamurti
You cannot bring the mountain-top to the valley. If you would attain to
the mountain-top you must pass through the valley, climb the steeps,
unafraid of the dangerous precipices. You must climb towards the Truth, it
cannot be "stepped down" or organized for you.

STEINER
What is really truth neither arises nor passes away: it has a significance
which cannot be destroyed. This is not contradicted by the fact that
certain human "truths" have a value which is transitory, inasmuch as they
are recognised after a certain period as partial or complete errors.

J. Krishnamurti
Interest in ideas is mainly sustained by organizations, but organizations only awaken interest from without.
> Interest, which is not born out of love of Truth for its own sake, but
> aroused by an organization, is of no value. The organization becomes a
> framework into which its members can conveniently fit. They no longer
> strive after Truth or the mountaintop, but rather carve for themselves a
> convenient niche in which they put themselves or let the organization
place them and consider the organization will thereby lead them to Truth.

If an organization be created for this purpose, it becomes a crutch, a
> weakness, a bondage, and must cripple the individual, and prevent him from growing, from establishing his uniqueness, which lies in the discovery
for himself of that absolute, unconditioned Truth.

STEINER

A man must say to himself that truth exists in itself, and that his
conceptions are only transient forms of eternal truths.

J. Krishnamurti

> > Because I am free, unconditioned, whole, not the part, not the
relative, but the whole Truth that is eternal, I desire those, who seek to
understand me, to be free, not to follow me, not to make out of me a cage
which will become a religion, a sect.

STEINER
Even he who says, like Lessing, that he contents himself with the eternal
striving towards truth because the full, pure truth can, after all, only
exist for a God, does not deny the eternity of truth but establishes it by
such an utterance. For only that which has an eternal significance in
itself can call forth an eternal striving after it.


J. Krishnamurti

My only concern is to set men absolutely, unconditionally free.

Br. Bruce

[Sunny C.]

I like Krishnamurti better than Rudy Steiner.

[Tao_Equus]

Originally Posted by Sunny C.

I like Krishnamurti better than Rudy Steiner.

Ditto

[achilles]

so yet we still beg the question?....what is truth? In the simplest of terms ..does truth have to be proved to be known as truth?

[juantoo3]

I know nothing about the previous discussion, but to answer your question I would think proof is the solution to an equation. Does truth *have to* be proven...no, dogma seldom is, and subjective POV frequently lacks "proof."

OTOH, by definition Objective truth must be proved. Likewise, at least in theory, reality must be demonstrably provable.

So I kinda wonder what it is you are getting at...by chance is this another stab at the science versus religion debate? If so, we are talking two completely differing operational truths, apples and oranges so to speak.