Trinity? Stake Vs Cross Vs Tree

[17th Angel]

Heeey

Qua, long time indeed no see... will look at that site too, they selling The Chronicles of Narnia at a decent price? heh... *ponders if you noted his previous post.*

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

Site is interesting alot of information just going through it at the moment, one thing I would like to mention I browsed first scanning top to bottom and at the bottom it says as follows...


Papal Crucifix 8 inch $21.95
Catechism of Catholic Church - OSV HC / SC $29.95
St. Benedict Stained Cherry Crucifix - 10.5 inch $48.00
Catholicism for Dummies $21.99
SS Miraculous Medal on 24 inch chain $37.00
The Essential Catholic Handbook of the Sacraments $13.95
Daily Missal - 1962 Tridentine Rite (Latin Rite) Black / White Leather $54.95

.... and then,

The Chronicles of Narnia (Modern Cover) Boxed Set, SC $45.00

.. Is it just me? That strikes as odd??

Everybody has to make a buck to eat...

As far as the "Narnia Chronicles", you eh, haven't read much of C.S. Lewis have you? He had a wonderful way of putting the message of Christianity into his stories, and children (of all ages), eat it up.

Not bad for a previously avowed Aethiest Professor...

v/r

Q

[17th Angel]

I am afraid not,

Military, Sci-Fi and horror are my styles of book.... I "kind of" saw the old movie of that Narnia film but lost interest fast... Didn't realise it was connected at all with the Word of God.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

Heeey

Qua, long time indeed no see... will look at that site too, they selling The Chronicles of Narnia at a decent price? heh... *ponders if you noted his previous post.*

Happy holidays to you as well...soldier

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

I am afraid not,

Military, Sci-Fi and horror are my styles of book.... I "kind of" saw the old movie of that Narnia film but lost interest fast... Didn't realise it was connected at all with the Word of God.

The new movie will knock your socks off. Very close to the books, and it is the story of the life and death (and life) of Christ. It is also very Sci-fi/fantasy. Oh, lots of military strategy as well...

v/r

Q

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Happy holidays to you as well...soldier

*salutes*

Thanks brother, you take care and I wish you and your family a great festive season!

[InquisitiveInHalifax]

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

Site is interesting alot of information just going through it at the moment, one thing I would like to mention I browsed first scanning top to bottom and at the bottom it says as follows...


Papal Crucifix 8 inch $21.95
Catechism of Catholic Church - OSV HC / SC $29.95
St. Benedict Stained Cherry Crucifix - 10.5 inch $48.00
Catholicism for Dummies $21.99
SS Miraculous Medal on 24 inch chain $37.00
The Essential Catholic Handbook of the Sacraments $13.95
Daily Missal - 1962 Tridentine Rite (Latin Rite) Black / White Leather $54.95

.... and then,

The Chronicles of Narnia (Modern Cover) Boxed Set, SC $45.00

.. Is it just me? That strikes as odd??

Actually C.S. Lewis, the author of The Chronicles of Narnia, is a christian author of some reknown. If you've read the series (I just finished them last month, quite late I know) there is a lot of christian ideology there. Actually the further I got in the series the more blatant it was and I started to get a little bored with it, felt like deja vu from sunday school. For example the lion, Aslan (creator of Narnia), allowed himself to be put to death to save a little boy then came back to life to save Narnia. Aslan's father is the Great Emporer across the sea....I think you can see what I mean. I hope I didn't give too much away if you intend to read them, the book in which that takes place has just been adapted for the big screen 'The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe', not too bad for a kids movie!

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by InquisitiveInHalifax

Actually C.S. Lewis, the author of The Chronicles of Narnia, is a christian author of some reknown. If you've read the series (I just finished them last month, quite late I know) there is a lot of christian ideology there. Actually the further I got in the series the more blatant it was and I started to get a little bored with it, felt like deja vu from sunday school. For example the lion, Aslan (creator of Narnia), allowed himself to be put to death to save a little boy then came back to life to save Narnia. Aslan's father is the Great Emporer across the sea....I think you can see what I mean. I hope I didn't give too much away if you intend to read them, the book in which that takes place has just been adapted for the big screen 'The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe', not too bad for a kids movie!

Perhaps that is due to the fact that he deliberately wrote Christian themes into his books which were deliberately directed towards children.

Prior to his conversion to Christianity, Lewis was an atheist. However his good friend J.R.R. Tolkien's arguments along with Chesterson's "The Everlasting Man", gave him pause to reconsider (1929). By 1931 Lewis came back to his Christian heritage.

He has written much more than Christian based books, (to include science fiction, prose and poetry), and was the first Professor of Medival and Renaissence literature at Cambridge. He is also noted for some thought provoking quotes.

"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell."

"Aim at heave and you will get earth thrown in. Aim at earth and you get neither."

"A man who is eating or lying with his wife or preparing to go to sleep in humility, thankfulness and temperance, is by Christian standards, in an infinitely higher state than one who is listening to Bach or reading Plato in a state of pride."

These are just a few of his many quotes.

v/r

Q

[17th Angel]

Originally Posted by InquisitiveInHalifax

Actually C.S. Lewis, the author of The Chronicles of Narnia, is a christian author of some reknown. If you've read the series (I just finished them last month, quite late I know) there is a lot of christian ideology there. Actually the further I got in the series the more blatant it was and I started to get a little bored with it, felt like deja vu from sunday school. For example the lion, Aslan (creator of Narnia), allowed himself to be put to death to save a little boy then came back to life to save Narnia. Aslan's father is the Great Emporer across the sea....I think you can see what I mean. I hope I didn't give too much away if you intend to read them, the book in which that takes place has just been adapted for the big screen 'The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe', not too bad for a kids movie!

Yeah I downloa..... uhm, went to the "cinema" yesterday, and saw Narnia... I instantly related the lion to Jesus Christ..... Only in realtion to his deeds... nothing else... obviously he is just a character, and if real he would just be an animal.... no real importance... heh.

I however didn't relate anything else to Christianity... anyway.. It wasn't bad... Got Harry Potter, goblet of fire too... That was a poor film... I cannot believe they swore in it. Anyway that storyline is getting too old.. I cannot believe people read the books of that and still are interested.....

Potter goes to school first time!! wow awesome, oh no some dude called Volldermort? or something he wants to kill him!! oh dear!!! lucky the goof without any skill or talent uses others to defeat him... well that was fun...

2nd Potter goes back to school! wow awesome, oh no some dude called volldermort is back and wants to kill him!! oh dear!! lucky that goof can sponge off others talents and skills to save his behind!! well that was fun...

3rd potter..... he goes back to school again... oh no, here comes some dude, and he is called voldermort, and yes, he is trying to kill potter... lucky, the coward potter uses others around him again and SAVES THE DAY!!! Oh this story line is soooo orginial... Can't wait for what surprises are in the next one!

4th potter... yes he goes back to school... voldermort, sponge, lucky uses others saves day..... meh...

Who here honestly likes these films? *loads rifle* hands up.

(edits)

OH and what is with those fools?! the baddy is always the defender agaisnt black arts!!! Err.... I am going to go and so something to distract my mind from how tedious, repetitive and annoying those films are.... anyway this trinity subject is kinda wandering off onto some unknown direction... I still say the Trinity isn't important.

[mee]

Originally Posted by 17th Angel

Who can offer me views, opinions, scriptures and history that back that Jesus was killed via;

stake
cross
tree

Also I would like to hear the importantce of the Trinity, Thanks!

In classical Greek the word (stau·ros´) primarily denotes an upright stake, or pole, and there is no evidence that the writers of the Christian Greek Scriptures used it to designate a stake with a crossbeam

The book The Non-Christian Cross, by John Denham Parsons, states: "There is not a single sentence in any of the numerous writings forming the New Testament, which, in the original Greek, bears even indirect evidence to the effect that the stauros used in the case of Jesus was other than an ordinary stauros; much less to the effect that it consisted, not of one piece of timber, but of two pieces nailed together in the form of a cross. . . . it is not a little misleading upon the part of our teachers to translate the word stauros as ‘cross’ when rendering the Greek documents of the Church into our native tongue, and to support that action by putting ‘cross’ in our lexicons as the meaning of stauros without carefully explaining that that was at any rate not the primary meaning of the word in the days of the Apostles, did not become its primary signification till long afterwards, and became so then, if at all, only because, despite the absence of corroborative evidence, it was for some reason or other assumed that the particular stauros upon which Jesus was executed had that particular shape."—London, 1896, pp. 23, 24.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by mee

In classical Greek the word (stau·ros´) primarily denotes an upright stake, or pole, and there is no evidence that the writers of the Christian Greek Scriptures used it to designate a stake with a crossbeam

The book The Non-Christian Cross, by John Denham Parsons, states: "There is not a single sentence in any of the numerous writings forming the New Testament, which, in the original Greek, bears even indirect evidence to the effect that the stauros used in the case of Jesus was other than an ordinary stauros; much less to the effect that it consisted, not of one piece of timber, but of two pieces nailed together in the form of a cross. . . . it is not a little misleading upon the part of our teachers to translate the word stauros as ‘cross’ when rendering the Greek documents of the Church into our native tongue, and to support that action by putting ‘cross’ in our lexicons as the meaning of stauros without carefully explaining that that was at any rate not the primary meaning of the word in the days of the Apostles, did not become its primary signification till long afterwards, and became so then, if at all, only because, despite the absence of corroborative evidence, it was for some reason or other assumed that the particular stauros upon which Jesus was executed had that particular shape."—London, 1896, pp. 23, 24.

The historical evidence that the Romans used a "stake with a cross beam" to execute criminals is in abundance. The logic is that if the Romans used crossed stakes to execute criminals and the Romans executed Jesus, then it is logical to assume that the Romans put Jesus on a crossed stake. It does not necessarrily mean that the crossed stake was in the shape of a lower case t. It could have as easily been an X.

v/r

Q

[Quahom1]

Excerpt from Wikipedia:


Cross shape

The horizontal beam of the cross, or transom, could be fixed at the very top of the vertical piece, the upright, to form a capital T called a tau cross or Saint Anthony's cross. The horizontal beam could also be affixed at some distance below the top, often in a mortise, to form a lowercase t-shape called a Latin cross, more often depicted in Christian imagery. Alternatively, the cross could consist of two diagonal beams to form an X, alternatively known as the decussate cross (after decem, Latin for 'ten', insofar as 'X' is the Roman numeral for ten) or as Saint Andrew's cross. (This shape may be recognized from its white-on-blue manifestation in the flag of Scotland.)

For reasons of simplicity, a single, upright wooden pole (crux simplex), with no transom at all, was also often used for ancient crucifixions; the original Greek word for "cross" (stauros) is generally understood to indicate a simple upright pole or stake. On such, malefactors were nailed for execution.

Both the noun, and the verb staurein, "to fasten to a stake or pole", are distinct from the ecclesiastical symbol of the two-beamed "cross". According to some theories, the shape of the latter had its origin in ancient Babylonia as the symbol of the god Tammuz, being in the shape of the mystic Tau, the Greek initial of his name. By the middle of the 3rd century AD, pagans received into the churches sometimes retained their pagan signs and symbols. Hence the Tau or T, with the cross-piece lowered, is said to have been adopted to stand for the "cross" of Christ. Of course, this theory that the cross symbol was adopted purely as a symbol from pagan practice seemingly overlooks all the archaeological and literary evidence discussed elsewhere in this article, that actual crosses were indeed used as a very real means of execution.

[mee]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

The historical evidence that the Romans used a "stake with a cross beam" to execute criminals is in abundance. The logic is that if the Romans used crossed stakes to execute criminals and the Romans executed Jesus, then it is logical to assume that the Romans put Jesus on a crossed stake. It does not necessarrily mean that the crossed stake was in the shape of a lower case t. It could have as easily been an X.

v/r

Q

but what does the bible say , for me i am interested what the bible is saying about this word stau-ros ,not assuming things that might of happened.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by mee

but what does the bible say , for me i am interested what the bible is saying about this word stau-ros ,not assuming things that might of happened.

Fair enough, then read on in the Greek scriptures as to what Jesus carried on his way to Golgotha. I believe you will find that He specifically carried a "cross piece" or "cross beam", not the whole of the cross, or even the Stauros (which is already buried in the ground like a fence post. Also we know He would not have carried the entire cross...He couldn't carry it (as it would weigh in excess of 300 lbs). He couldn't even carry the cross beam (weighing in at 75-120 lbs), because He was so weak from the flogging.

If you don't believe He died on a cross, that is fine too.

v/r

Q

[Thomas]

for me i am interested what the bible is saying about this word stau-ros ,not assuming things that might of happened.

Early Christian writers without exception wrote the language of their time, the Greek Koine... The New Testament has very little relationship to the artificial representation of the language of Attic [Greek] prose in the literature and rhetoric of the Roman imperial period... [With the exception of the Epistle to the Hebrews,] the other books of the New Testament... as well as other early Christian writings, are dominated by the vernacular language."
(Introduction to the New Testament, Volume One: History, Culture, and Religion of the Hellenistic Age, Philadelphia: Fortress Press, 1982, page 107).

To understand what the bible says, one must first understand the language, and the Greek of the NT is vernacular. I would suggest that if you asked anyone of the day what was the most common method of Roman punishment execution they would describe the cross as we know it,a cross-piece attached to a vertical stake.

Certainly most of the Roman writers did - even when they referred to it as a tree, as in the case of Pliny.

There is a piece of anti-Christian graffiti from the 3rd century depicting a man kneeling in prayer before the image of a man with an ass's head crucified on a cross. The point is, the graffiti ridicules what must by then have been a common practice - prayer addressed to a crucified Christ. The cross depicted is just as we know it, and as it was used up until abolished by Constantine in the fourth century.

Thomas