Trinity

[mee]

Originally Posted by Thomas

Yes He did ... you just don't understand. There is Father, there is the Son, and there is another ...



Thomas

holy spirit ,

and having the correct understanding about just what the holy spirit is, means we are not misled to take on board manmade doctrines like the trinity teaching . but many have been misled down through the centuries and people have got to believe it .
so you are correct i do not understand the trinity because it is not a bible teaching .
and remember it is not just Jehovahs people who can see the truth about that , others also can see from the bible that it is not a bible teaching.

[Thomas]

Hi Mee —

The Bible says more about the Trinity — the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit (all mentioned by name) that it says about 1914 (never mentioned at all), so who's believing in manmade doctrines now?

You can quote any text you like, but unless you can quote the verse that explicitly says '1914' — then that is your interpretation of the text, it is not what the text says.

In short:
Catholics interpret what is there.
Jehovah's Witnesses read into the text what is not there.

There is no way in the world you can accuse anyone of manmade doctrines whilst you continue to propound your own doctrine of 1914, without hypocrisy. You are guilty of precisely the accusation you lay against others.

Thomas

[mee]

Originally Posted by Thomas

Hi Mee —

The Bible says more about the Trinity — the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit (all mentioned by name) that it says about 1914 (never mentioned at all), so who's believing in manmade doctrines now?

You can quote any text you like, but unless you can quote the verse that explicitly says '1914' — then that is your interpretation of the text, it is not what the text says.

In short:


Catholics interpret what is there.
Jehovah's Witnesses read into the text what is not there.

There is no way in the world you can accuse anyone of manmade doctrines whilst you continue to propound your own doctrine of 1914, without hypocrisy. You are guilty of precisely the accusation you lay against others.

Thomas

are you not aware that the bible is a book of phophecy , and that many have fallen asleep to bible prophecy , i am glad to say that those who have not fallen asleep are now enlightened indeed. Daniel 12;4 those weeds that were sown along with the wheat , are now very clear to see .

Jesus said that those weeds would be allowed to grow up with the wheat ,

Before the "weeds" of false Christianity are collected and destroyed, however, Jesus’ illustration indicates something else that must happen. For centuries the growth of false Christian "weeds" was so extensive that the "wheat" of true Christianity was practically obscured. But Jesus described the wheat being separated from the weeds during the "harvest," which he said represents "a conclusion of a system of things." He also said: "At that time the righteous ones will shine as brightly as the sun." (Matthew 13:39-43) The evidence shows that we have been living in the conclusion of the system of things since World War I, 1914 (Matthew 24:3, 7-12) make no mistake its all happening, along with all the other evidence inline with bible prophecy and chronology . those who have not been blinded are seeing things very clear indeed. and the flashes of understanding are becoming brighter and stronger than ever.

[mee]

[quote=Thomas;137728]Hi Mee —


Jehovah's Witnesses read into the text what is not there.



Thomas[/quote
Or even true knowledge that has been made abundant Daniel 12;4Daniel 2;44

[mee]

Originally Posted by Thomas

Hi Mee —



you continue to propound your own doctrine of 1914,

Thomas

or even to make known
1914—A Significant Year in Bible Prophecy

[BlaznFattyz]

how did this thread go from discussing god revealing himself in three persons to feeding the attention hog by discussing the religion of false prophecies and numerology in a christian forum. god is spirit, so he reveals himself thru the spirit which manifests himself here on earth while the father is still in heaven his presence is here on earth. for a time thru jesus while god walked among us, and thru the holy spirit that dwells with true believers and the church who take the gospel of jesus christ and salvation to the ends of the earth.

[Thomas]

Hi Mee —

Originally Posted by mee

are you not aware that the bible is a book of phophecy...

That may well be all it is to you, but that is not all it is to Christians.

Show me where it says 1914, if you can't do that, then it is your tradition, not God's.

Originally Posted by mee

... and that many have fallen asleep ...

Your doctrine.

Originally Posted by mee

The evidence shows that we have been living in the conclusion of the system of things since World War I, 1914 (Matthew 24:3, 7-12) ...

I see nothing in Matthew 24:3, 7-12 that says 1914 ... so this is your manmade doctrine, not the Apostle's.

Thomas

[mee]

Originally Posted by Thomas

I see nothing in Matthew 24:3, 7-12 that says 1914 ... so this is your manmade doctrine, not the Apostle's.

Thomas

For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, matthew 24;7
think about it ,when was the first time that all nations became involved in the war , ......world war 1 1914 .....and as we all know it is known as the great war . this was the first time that this happened , yes there had been wars before the first world war but this was something different whole nations were involved , yes the signs of the times are upon us and it was the START of the last days in 1914 ,and now we are well along into bible prophecy and the signs that Jesus spoke of . of cause this is only one of the things that point to 1914 the bible points to other things as well .







1914 A Significant Year in Bible Prophecy

DECADES in advance, Bible students proclaimed that there would be significant developments in 1914. What were these, and what evidence points to 1914 as such an important year?

As recorded at Luke 21:24, Jesus said: "Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations, until the appointed times of the nations ["the times of the Gentiles," King James Version] are fulfilled." Jerusalem had been the capital city of the Jewish nation—the seat of rulership of the line of kings from the house of King David. (Psalm 48:1, 2) However, these kings were unique among national leaders. They sat on "Jehovah’s throne" as representatives of God himself. (1 Chronicles 29:23) Jerusalem was thus a symbol of Jehovah’s rulership.


How and when, though, did God’s rulership begin to be "trampled on by the nations"? This happened in 607 B.C.E. when Jerusalem was conquered by the Babylonians. "Jehovah’s throne" became vacant, and the line of kings who descended from David was interrupted. (2 Kings 25:1-26) Would this ‘trampling’ go on forever? No, for the prophecy of Ezekiel said regarding Jerusalem’s last king, Zedekiah: "Remove the turban, and lift off the crown. . . . It will certainly become no one’s until he comes who has the legal right, and I must give it to him." (Ezekiel 21:26, 27) The one who has "the legal right" to the Davidic crown is Christ Jesus. (Luke 1:32, 33) So the ‘trampling’ would end when Jesus became King.
When would that grand event occur? Jesus showed that the Gentiles would rule for a fixed period of time. The account in Daniel chapter 4 holds the key to knowing how long that period would last. It relates a prophetic dream experienced by King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon. He saw an immense tree that was chopped down. Its stump could not grow because it was banded with iron and copper. An angel declared: "Let seven times pass over it."—Daniel 4:10-16.


In the Bible, trees are sometimes used to represent rulership. (Ezekiel 17:22-24; 31:2-5) So the chopping down of the symbolic tree represents how God’s rulership, as expressed through the kings at Jerusalem, would be interrupted. However, the vision served notice that this ‘trampling of Jerusalem’ would be temporary—a period of "seven times." How long a period is that?



Revelation 12:6, 14 indicates that three and a half times equal "a thousand two hundred and sixty days." "Seven times" would therefore last twice as long, or 2,520 days. But the Gentile nations did not stop ‘trampling’ on God’s rulership a mere 2,520 days after Jerusalem’s fall. Evidently, then, this prophecy covers a much longer period of time. On the basis of Numbers 14:34 and Ezekiel 4:6, which speak of "a day for a year," the "seven times" would cover 2,520 years.

The 2,520 years began in October 607 B.C.E., when Jerusalem fell to the Babylonians and the Davidic king was taken off his throne. The period ended in October 1914. At that time, "the appointed times of the nations" ended, and Jesus Christ was installed as God’s heavenly King.—Psalm 2:1-6; Daniel 7:13, 14.


Just as Jesus predicted, his "presence" as heavenly King has been marked by dramatic world developments—war, famine, earthquakes, pestilences. (Matthew 24:3-8; Luke 21:11) Such developments bear powerful testimony to the fact that 1914 indeed marked the birth of God’s heavenly Kingdom and the beginning of "the last days" of this present wicked system of things.—2 Timothy 3:1-5.

[mee]

Originally Posted by Thomas

Hi Mee —






Your doctrine.





Thomas

no manmade doctrines just good bible based information


"Look! I am coming as a thief. Happy is the one that stays awake and keeps his outer garments."—REVELATION 16:15.


Keep awake, then, all the time making supplication that YOU may succeed in escaping all these things that are destined to occur, and in standing before the Son of man."LUKE 21;36

"Keep on the watch, therefore, because YOU know neither the day nor the hour. MATTHEW 25;13

Knowing just where we are in the stream of time means we are not caught out ,


Keep looking, keep awake, for YOU do not know when the appointed time is. mark 13;33


yes, keeping awake to bible prophecy and chronology means that we know just where we are in the stream of time .


Continuing

to Keep on the Watch

"SINCE Jesus clearly stated that no man could know ‘that day’ or ‘the hour’ when the Father will order his son to ‘come’ against Satan’s wicked system of things, some may ask: ‘Why is it so urgent to live in expectation of the end?’ It is urgent because practically in the same breath, Jesus added: ‘Keep looking, keep awake . . . keep on the watch.’ (Mark 13:32-35

Jehovah’s Witnesses have been watching for decades now. Watching for what? For Jesus’ coming in Kingdom power to execute judgment against Satan’s wicked system of things and to extend the full benefits of his Kingdom reign earth wide! (Matt. 6:9, 10; 24:30; Luke 21:28; 2 Thess. 1:7-10) These watching ones know that the "sign" of Jesus’ presence has been in evidence since 1914 and that the present system of things entered its last days in that year.—Matt. 24:3–25:46.
But, as yet, Jesus has not come as Executioner and Deliverer.

[mee]

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

and thru the holy spirit that dwells with true believers and the church who take the gospel of jesus christ and salvation to the ends of the earth.

its all happening
And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come. matthew 24;14


And Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: "All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth. 19 GO therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded YOU. And, look! I am with YOU all the days until the conclusion of the system of things." matthew 28;19-20




the last thing Jesus commanded was to GO and it is being done on a worldwise scale , and Jesus is with those ones .


Also, in all the nations the good news has to be preached first. mark 13;10



its all happening


How, in turn, will they preach unless they have been sent forth? Just as it is written: "How comely are the feet of those who declare good news of good things! ROMANS 1;15

[Thomas]

Originally Posted by mee

For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, matthew 24;7 ... think about it ,when was the first time that all nations became involved in the war , ......world war 1 1914

Wrong. Many nations, yes ... but not all ... and many nations had been involved in conflicts mant times before.

The error, Mee, is in reading the bit that suits your argument, and ignoring the bits that don't. Whereas the good Christian reads the whole thing, and listens to what Scripture is saying:

Matthew 24:4-5
"And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many."
You see, you've missed the point that WWI was not a war of religion, it was about politics and industrialisation. According to the text you cite, wars will come about by those proclaiming to be the Christ ... this is nothing at all to do with the causes of WWI — so even by your own favoured text, you've got the wrong war.

The Thirty Years' War (1618-1648) however, was a religious war, a direct conflict between Catholics and Protestants over who spoke in the name of Christ. So reading Scripture, Thirty Years' War fits the bill better.

Matthew 24:6
"And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all [these things] must come to pass, but the end is not yet."
That confirms it, then. There was so much politiking going on!

Matthew 24:7
"For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom... "
Yes ... all the nations of the Holy Roman Empire were involved.

"... and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places."
Yes again! A huge factor of the Thirty Years' War was that mercenary armies were used extensively, and entire regions were scavenged bare by the foraging armies. Famine and disease were widespread and devastated the population of the German states and, to a lesser extent, the Low Countries and Italy. Whole countries became bakrupt. The war may have lasted for 30 years, but the conflicts that triggered it continued unresolved for a much longer time.

On a relative scale, the 30YW was far worse than than WWI — the European population in WWI suffered shortages, but not famine, nor pestilence, on the scale of Europe in the 30YW.

Over the course of the TYW, the population of the German states was reduced by 30%; in the territory of Brandenburg, the losses had amounted to half, while in some areas an estimated two-thirds of the population died. Germany’s male population was reduced by almost half. The population of the Czech lands declined by a third. The Swedish armies alone destroyed 2,000 castles, 18,000 villages and 1,500 towns in Germany, one-third of all German towns.

Mat 24:8
"All these [are] the beginning of sorrows."
Yep. The 30YW changed the map of Europe thereafter.

So my suggestion is, according to Scripture, The Thirty Years' War is a far better candidate.

Originally Posted by mee

yes there had been wars before the first world war but this was something different whole nations were involved,

Wrong again. Every country in Europe was involved, and the battles took place over a far wider geographic region. Also, only the armies of nations were involved, whereas in the TYW the civilians populations suffered terribly, being slaughtered on a wide scale.

I suggest your 'biblical students' have made errors due to a poor grasp of history.

The rest is just a matter of working Scripture to produce the answer you want to find. That has been proven scientifically — even by JWs who have 'revised' their findings on more than one occasion.

And furthermore:
Mat 24:36:
"But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only."
This is the bigger issue ... you actually ignore the Word of Scripture by even trying to find some kind of date, by setting a timetable for God ... the teaching of Our Lord is clear — we must be ready for His coming at all times, for no man knows when that time will be — and you think you know, and I say that you are wrong.

D'you think that a man in 1414 say, will be forgiven for not bothering because he worked out that the coming of the kingdom was not for another five hundred years?

Thomas

[mee]

Originally Posted by Thomas

So my suggestion is, according to Scripture, The Thirty Years' War is a far better candidate.



Thomas

1914 was the start of the last days , thats why it is known as the FIRST WORLD WAR and THE GREAT WAR . it was the start of the end. yes a turning point indeed .


on Monday morning, June 29, 1914, the newspapers carried a shocking headline: "HEIR TO AUSTRIA’S THRONE IS SLAIN." Perhaps that item of news seems very old to you now—almost like something out of ancient history. Nevertheless, it startled those who were alive at the time. And it set in motion a chain of events that still affects us .

What

Hope for an End to War?

WORLD WAR I, fought from 1914 to 1918, was called the war to end all wars. But since then there have been over 200 wars, including the greatest to date—World War II.
Clearly, human efforts to abolish war have been a complete failure. Is it any wonder, then, that many say, "There will always be wars"? Is that what you believe?
The setting up of the United Nations in 1945 after World War II was intended to give war-weary humans a hope for a world without war. That hope is expressed in an inscription on the wall of the UN plaza in New York City, which reads: THEY SHALL BEAT THEIR SWORDS INTO PLOWSHARES. AND THEIR SPEARS INTO PRUNING HOOKS: NATION SHALL NOT LIFT UP SWORD AGAINST NATION. NEITHER SHALL THEY LEARN WAR ANY MORE.
Sadly, the nations by their warmongering have made a mockery of this beautifully expressed hope for peace. Nevertheless, these words will be fulfilled! This is because they originated over 2,500 years ago with a Source higher than imperfect humans. They represent a promise made by Almighty God.—Isaiah 2:4.

[mee]

Originally Posted by Thomas

Mat 24:8
"All these [are] the beginning of sorrows."




.





Thomas

yes 1914 was the start of great sorrows, and it has got worse and worse it really was the start of the end .All these [are] the beginning of sorrows."

[mee]

Originally Posted by Thomas

And furthermore:
Mat 24:36:
"But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only."
This is the bigger issue ... you actually ignore the Word of Scripture by even trying to find some kind of date, by setting a timetable for God ... the teaching of Our Lord is clear — we must be ready for His coming at all times, for no man knows when that time will be — and you think you know, and I say that you are wrong.



Thomas

Jesus arriving in kingdom power and being given kingship in the heavenly kingdom is one thing, but Jesus coming to execute judgement is another thing . and as you rightly say no man knows the hour or day when Jesus will go into action to execute Judgement. i think more study is needed so you are not confused by Jesus COMING and his presence (PAROUSIA)

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by mee

Jesus arriving in kingdom power and being given kingship in the heavenly kingdom is one thing, but Jesus coming to execute judgement is another thing . and as you rightly say no man knows the hour or day when Jesus will go into action to execute Judgement. i think more study is needed so you are not confused by Jesus COMING and his presence (PAROUSIA)

I think I'll stick with Jesus' own words "No one knows the moment of the coming, not even the Son, but only the Father.." (para)

In the mean time the Holy Spirit is here and has been here since the ascention. So, we have never been alone.

v/r

Q