To be, or not to be?

[Gatekeeper]

It seems we all have our flavour of religion, and our creeds, and dogma that we adhere to, but isn't it these very things that divide us? We have our Muslims, and we have our Budhists, and Pagans, and Rastafari's, and Christians, etc - To top it all off, we all think that we have it right. The catch is, there is only one truth, lol!

Why do we insist that our brand of truth is the correct brand, and will we ever unite in Spirit? There are many who practically demand that we view things their way - even though they themselves are more than likely mistaken about a few, if not many, many things. I'm a religious man, and I carry a grat deal of religious 'baggage' and I find that it weighs me down to the point of burden.

I think it is our insistance that we are right, and others are wrong that causes division in this world, or could it be a fear of being wrong that causes us to divide? Maybe it is pride, or selfrighteous attitudes, and stubborness? I don't know for sure, but some do cast judgments, and somehow think they are better, and more enlightened. Many even feel that they are far above others because of what they hold as truth. It ought not be this way [imo]

I used to speak with a person years ago who would talk about religious baggage. He would suggest to me to ditch the religion, and hold on only to that which is a nescessity. I was quite offended at his suggestion, but now I am beginning to see whe why behind his words, and I am seeing a certain degree of wisdom in them. We all can't be right about our religious beliefs, and it is these beliefs that divide us essentially. So, will we ever release our baggage, and come to stand in union, and of one mind, and heart? I believe the only thing that can unite us is love - only when we ditch our baggage, and choose love will we be of the same mind, and Spirit. [Respect, acceptance, and value - Love]

To be, or not to be?

James

[lunamoth]

You have a point James, but I don't think we have to necessarily think of our religious traditions and beliefs as things that divide us, but as things that distinguish us. And yes, we obviously each find our own path to be best, but that does not mean we don't see any value at all in other religions and philosophies. I think we can still love and listen to each other, respect and be peaceful with each other, and find some common ground, even if we have different ways of addressing ultimate meaning in our lives.

You are right on that fear is a big factor in division, exclusiveness, and hate-mongering. And sadly, some flavors of religion promote fears instead of alleviating them. Fanaticism and extremism feed right into those fears, and conversely, the scarier the world seems, the more those religions grow. Frightening yes, but like many things in life I see this as a twisting of something that is supposed to be good, rather than evidence that all religion is bad.

I guess I just don't see religion and love as mutually exclusive, although you are not the only one to suggest that. One of my favorite ideas is that of the beloved community, the idea of a community that is brought together by the attractive force of love, rather than delineated by laws and doctrines that exclude. To me, the beloved community can be exemplified by religious communities, but also across different religions.

Good topic, thanks.

[Gatekeeper]

Originally Posted by lunamoth

You have a point James, but I don't think we have to necessarily think of our religious traditions and beliefs as things that divide us, but as things that distinguish us. And yes, we obviously each find our own path to be best, but that does not mean we don't see any value at all in other religions and philosophies. I think we can still love and listen to each other, respect and be peaceful with each other, and find some common ground, even if we have different ways of addressing ultimate meaning in our lives.

You are right on that fear is a big factor in division, exclusiveness, and hate-mongering. And sadly, some flavors of religion promote fears instead of alleviating them. Fanaticism and extremism feed right into those fears, and conversely, the scarier the world seems, the more those religions grow. Frightening yes, but like many things in life I see this as a twisting of something that is supposed to be good, rather than evidence that all religion is bad.

I guess I just don't see religion and love as mutually exclusive, although you are not the only one to suggest that. One of my favorite ideas is that of the beloved community, the idea of a community that is brought together by the attractive force of love, rather than delineated by laws and doctrines that exclude. To me, the beloved community can be exemplified by religious communities, but also across different religions.

Good topic, thanks.

I agree, diversity is something to be cherished. If we would simply accept other religions as being valuable, and even nescessary to the one who adheres to the practice thereof, we would have our community.

There is only one truth, but will we ever know that truth? I think perhaps God has confused us in hope that we will someday find harmony with one another despite our differences. It boils down to acceptance, and knowing that we in reality 'know' very little. Love is our common bond, and one that I think is essential in the pursuit of unity.

God bless you, Luna

James

[juantoo3]

Originally Posted by Gatekeeper

we all think that we have it right. The catch is, there is only one truth, lol!

Why do we insist that our brand of truth is the correct brand, and will we ever unite in Spirit?

It would be kinda hard to believe if we believe we have it wrong. Isn't that the source behind so many crises of faith, that "uh-oh" moment when we begin to question and doubt, and start looking elsewhere for new answers?

Sure there is only one truth. I want to believe most of us are holding a portion of it, not quite enough to see the whole, but enough to point us generally in the correct direction.

Will we ever unite in spirit? In this existence, I really doubt it. But then, I suspect this existence is about learning something. I can't really say what that something is, but I can't help but feel the lessons just wouldn't be learned if we were all cookie cutter lookalikes with the same collective mind.

Besides, life would be numbingly boring...

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by Gatekeeper

There is only one truth, but will we ever know that truth? I think perhaps God has confused us in hope that we will someday find harmony with one another despite our differences. It boils down to acceptance, and knowing that we in reality 'know' very little. Love is our common bond, and one that I think is essential in the pursuit of unity.

Right now we see through the glass darkly. Even as we live in the new life of Christ it is always wise to have humility. Faith is trust because there is an element of uncertainty. It's great to be firm in our tradition and confident in our evangelism, but we still don't know it all. Like you say, the one thing I feel very certain of is that love is the way. I'm confident in Christ because I see this love so clearly expressed in his life, death, and resurrection.

God bless you, Luna

James

You as well James.

[Gatekeeper]

Originally Posted by juantoo3

It would be kinda hard to believe if we believe we have it wrong. Isn't that the source behind so many crises of faith, that "uh-oh" moment when we begin to question and doubt, and start looking elsewhere for new answers?

I believe that I hold elements of truth, but I do realize that I do not know it all. I stand firm on very few things, but these things I do witness about. I try not to force my views on others, but I do attempt to be an example.

Sure there is only one truth. I want to believe most of us are holding a portion of it, not quite enough to see the whole, but enough to point us generally in the correct direction.

I agree, and I think it is in the common ground that our truth resides. I truly believe that we will realize one day what we do when we squabble, and argue over doctrine. It's one thing to have faith, but it is quite another to demand that it has to be "my way", and all others are wrong. This mindset divides, and is not fruitful in the least.

Will we ever unite in spirit? In this existence, I really doubt it. But then, I suspect this existence is about learning something. I can't really say what that something is, but I can't help but feel the lessons just wouldn't be learned if we were all cookie cutter lookalikes with the same collective mind.

I hope you are wrong, because I believe the kingdom to be here on earth, lol. If it is to come to fruition, then we will have to unite in Spirit, and in heart. Otherwise will will stay divided, and my prescious kingdom will have all been a dream, and a hope that was false.

Besides, life would be numbingly boring...

Yup, we need our diversity - it is when we demand that others view things our way that trouble begins ...

Blessings

James

[Gatekeeper]

Originally Posted by lunamoth

Right now we see through the glass darkly. Even as we live in the new life of Christ it is always wise to have humility. Faith is trust because there is an element of uncertainty. It's great to be firm in our tradition and confident in our evangelism, but we still don't know it all. Like you say, the one thing I feel very certain of is that love is the way. I'm confident in Christ because I see this love so clearly expressed in his life, death, and resurrection.

You as well James.

Yes, but do we attempt to push our traditions on those whom already have their own? When do we simply accept the paths others have chosen, and realize that we might be wrong ourselves? I have faith in what i believe in, but I don't wish to step on toes to make my views known. I can't change anyone, but I can be an example, and show respect, and accept others for who they are, no matter what they believe in, ya know?

Christ is my hope, but I believe Christ to be spirit, and Love. I think those who have no mental understanding of the man, but still follow His ways, are also God's children. I'm reminded of 1 John 4 [God is love]

Although, I do not view Christ to be God himself, I do believe he was a perfect representaition of Him. This is usually where the disputes begin, lol.

Love

James

[juantoo3]

Originally Posted by Gatekeeper

I believe that I hold elements of truth, but I do realize that I do not know it all. I stand firm on very few things, but these things I do witness about. I try not to force my views on others, but I do attempt to be an example.

I see this as well and good. FWIW.

Originally Posted by Gatekeeper

I agree, and I think it is in the common ground that our truth resides. I truly believe that we will realize one day what we do when we squabble, and argue over doctrine. It's one thing to have faith, but it is quite another to demand that it has to be "my way", and all others are wrong. This mindset divides, and is not fruitful in the least.

Yet, that is part and parcel of what it means to be a human being with a functioning human mind and trying to hold a human belief. Mind numbing paradox, ain't it?

Originally Posted by Gatekeeper

I hope you are wrong, because I believe the kingdom to be here on earth, lol. If it is to come to fruition, then we will have to unite in Spirit, and in heart. Otherwise will will stay divided, and my prescious kingdom will have all been a dream, and a hope that was false.

The jury is still out. A lot of us want the kingdom to be here on earth, but things are foretold to get much worse before they ever get better. In the end it may not even be what you imagine, but something entirely different (and wonderfully better!).

Originally Posted by Gatekeeper

Yup, we need our diversity - it is when we demand that others view things our way that trouble begins ...

I cannot see the world on behalf of any other, I cannot live another's life for them, I cannot of my own ability save any other. What I can do is live my life for me to the best of my ability, walk hand-in-hand with those who care to share the journey, live and learn together, hope for the best, pray for strength in adversity, and do the best I can with what I believe. And help others do the same if they allow, and leave them to their own if they will not.

[Gatekeeper]

Originally Posted by juantoo3

Yet, that is part and parcel of what it means to be a human being with a functioning human mind and trying to hold a human belief. Mind numbing paradox, ain't it?

Yup

The jury is still out. A lot of us want the kingdom to be here on earth, but things are foretold to get much worse before they ever get better. In the end it may not even be what you imagine, but something entirely different (and wonderfully better!).


I cannot see the world on behalf of any other, I cannot live another's life for them, I cannot of my own ability save any other. What I can do is live my life for me to the best of my ability, walk hand-in-hand with those who care to share the journey, live and learn together, hope for the best, pray for strength in adversity, and do the best I can with what I believe. And help others do the same if they allow, and leave them to their own if they will not.

Further up, and further in - I wonder sometimes if it the destination, or the journey that counts the most. What would happen to us if we had a destination to reach? Is there a dstination at all, or are we on an endless journey towards the heart of God? I like the thought of us being wanderers, and pioneers, ya know? It gives me a reason to get up in the mornings

Even so, I pray that part of the journey will be us [mankind] living in harmony with one another - meh, call me a dreamer, lol.

It will get worse before it gets better, I think. This is obvious considering the state our world is in. I think it will take the peacemakers to bring in the kingdom, and illicit change in the [so called] wicked. I'm one who believes in the goodness of man [I saw your other thread] I am optimistic, and have faith in God's power to work through us, so ...

James

[juantoo3]

Originally Posted by Gatekeeper

I wonder sometimes if it the destination, or the journey that counts the most. What would happen to us if we had a destination to reach? Is there a dstination at all, or are we on an endless journey towards the heart of God? I like the thought of us being wanderers, and pioneers, ya know? It gives me a reason to get up in the mornings

Me too. That's what I was trying to get at about life being about learning something...it's the journey that matters. At least, that's what I think.

[Gatekeeper]

Originally Posted by juantoo3

Me too. That's what I was trying to get at about life being about learning something...it's the journey that matters. At least, that's what I think.

I think so, too...

Life is about learning, and growing, and taking our experiences, and gaining wisdom from them. I can't imagine a life of perfection, and I'm not sure I would want a part of an absolutely perfect existence - I think I need the stuggles, and hardships, and trials/temptations. In short, I need the journey, juantoo. Life would be dull w/o these things, as they help me keep a balance, and they tend to help me appreciate what is good in my life.

James

[greymare]

im righ twith ya there my friend. lol.its the journey, that counts. look in reality, god wants us all to behave and be good citizens. not to much to ask, right??? wrong, cos somewhere someone, wants to make trouble. thats the human side to us. trouble. lol. but love is the one common element in all the religions. love. simple. a four letter word . love. if you just say it, go on say it. now, LOVE, apply to everyday situations that get you down and give you the shits, LOVE. try it, it aint hard and it works. inlove was right. LOVE

[mee]

Originally Posted by Gatekeeper

There is only one truth, but will we ever know that truth? I think perhaps God has confused us in hope that we will someday find harmony with one another despite our differences.

God bless you, Luna

James

i dont think its God thats confused many, its the father of the lie(satan)


but no worries ,the true God is putting many, in fact a great crowd all to geather in unity. and they are in harmony REVELATION 7;9-10

[Alex P]

Originally Posted by Gatekeeper

It seems we all have our flavour of religion, and our creeds, and dogma that we adhere to, but isn't it these very things that divide us? We have our Muslims, and we have our Budhists, and Pagans, and Rastafari's, and Christians, etc - To top it all off, we all think that we have it right. The catch is, there is only one truth, lol!

Why do we insist that our brand of truth is the correct brand, and will we ever unite in Spirit?

Because even though we all have a glimpse of the truth (Love) and an understanding of the truth to a point (Love) We still get caught in the illusion of mankind...... We are united... Just we don't all realise it quite yet... The day the titles fall, and the borders perish, and the divided bond, and those at a certain level help those below them rise, and they all help to gently help those who are too high down.... and we all accept what we all are, it will be better

[China Cat Sunflower]

Gotta kill the Buddha at some point, man. Love is always there, but we're so busy looking for the ginormous, all consuming, overarching truth that simplifies and explains everything and saves us the effort of getting off our ass. Kids know. They know having fun is the answer to everything. Forget about Love. Forget about Truth. Have some fun. Take somebody with you to enjoy it.

Chris