|
www.comparative-religion.com
|
||
|
||
|
||||||||
|
|||||||
| Alternative Neopaganism & Wicca, Esoteric Christianity and Mysticism, Magickal practices and Alternative Thought. |
 |
|
|
Thread Tools | Rate Thread | Display Modes |
04-30-2007, 01:04 PM
|
#31 (permalink) |
|
Executive Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: liverpool, the 2008 winners of the capital of culture, england
Posts: 921
|
Re: Theosophical Hierarchy
okay, then, I shall show u what I mean... shall I..?
u want to believe that the world and the solar system are a neat ordered place, but it isn't like that. It's why we have leap years, it's why the hindu's had either 9 or 13 moons in a year... Humans devise theories so they can try to fix a handle on things they have difficulty picking up... they do the same with lists, and diagrams, and HPB's fluffy verbiage is nothing different. These lists u cite are not facts, but just lists, possible explanations of how things might be... so, my thoughts on ur lists... as far as I know, the milky way doesn't have a guardian spirit, and nor does the sun... as u probably already know, nothing lives on the sun, as its a big ball of gas... same as in the rest of the milky way- no air, or summat, or so I hear... a "mantavara" does not just one "guardian spirit", to my knowledge, but according to the manu-smrti, there are 14 progenitors and rulers of humankind, not seven, and there are TEN prajapatis, progenitors of the different races... so, that would make ten races, right? not seven, so, HPB got it wrong... or maybe I have... shucks... and as for the kabbalah... the sephira, or emanations, in the tree of life, are all supposedly aspects of Jehovah... the beauty of jehovah, the strength of jehovah, the understanding of jehovah, etc, etc... if u take Jehovah away from the kabbalah then the kabbalah is useless, unless of course ur an occultist and use it as a table of correspondences... these sephira are not angels, or archangels, but aspects of jehovah which, in a monotheistic religion like Judaism, suggest there is but the one God... I can back this up by saying that, well, originally, there were only seven archangels, all of which were created by Jehovah to do the bidding of Jehovah... even if we add jehovah as the top dog, we still have two empty seats on the kabbalah bus, but no doubt we can fill them with left over egyptian or hindu gods... why not, hey... so, take Jehovah away and there is nothing there but a pretty picture... ...reading the posts I see that ppl are banging on again about "bad karma" and how wrong it is to slate HPB and the theosophists, but again, as I have said in other posts, karma doesn't work like some counterweight of celestial justice, karma is more subtle than that... karma doesnt come from a punishing fat controller type God, u make ur own karma, karma is a mental factor, not a physical one, and yes, what u reap ye shall sow, but only becuase it ripens within ur own continuum... brahma with four faces had five originally, and depending on who u believe one of his faces was cut off... regardless, the idea he had four faces was to suggest that he could see all angles, east, west, north, south, and was present everywhere...he wasn't a "guardian spirit", but supreme reality, much like Jehovah is for Jews... as u probably know, the earliest Gods in hinduism are- the prajapatis, (the earth's "fathers", if u like) then comes the soma (moon) and agni (fire), and then in comes Indra... It was only later on in hinduism that Brahma appeared as the supreme reality, and it not considered by the majority of hindu's as supreme reality today, unless ur a brahmin..lol.. theosophy may teach that there are seven heavens, and everyone but theosophists will only ever get to the sixth, but all religions come up with things like this, dont they- our way is the best way type stuff.. yes, u are free to believe what u like, and so am I, and I choose not to believe thats how it all plays out... regardless, the second chart- evolution of a solar logos... again, what a pretty chart... yet- only if ur a theosophist... completely useless to me... I know my place in the world, incidentally, and u have missed my place off the map... no big deal though... where do I live..? I dwell in reality... u take a left at Sirius Minor... the third chart- the logos of a solar system- she's just ripped this off from the hindu's, again, and its all from the kalacakra, the great wheel of time, the yoga sutras of patanjali and little bits of tibetan tantra... interestingly enough, Max Muller was working on all this just before Blatvatsky was... strange that, hey...? all of this is, in my opinion, borrowed from a set of books called- the sacred wisdom of the east, and which runs to fifty volumes...again, all started by Max Muller... (Muller, Friedrich Max, 1823-1900)... u may insult me and consider that I am a lesser being because I am not a theosophist, but shucks, like I care, really... as for the theosophist's enherent nazi-ism... alice bailey, in "esoteric psychology" volume 1, says... direct quote here, that ".... With the problem of the Jew I will come later.." pg 386... she also says on pg 387 that the sixth race will come from Brazil (isnt that were most of the nazi's went with the gold..?) and the motto for this ray is- I hide the seed... on pg 392 she says that "germany can give us the pattern of the superman, and this is its (the souls) ultimate destiny.." the problems of the jews, explained by alice bailey run as follows... the tendency of the jew is to manipulate forces and pull strings... the jew embodies in himself the world prodigal son... he is the victim of his God... He is the symbol of the disciple who has not yet learnt the lesson of a just sense of values. ... he has sinned willfully and with his eyes wide open to the results... first printed in 1936, not 1875, and every successive reprint says the same thing... yes, I have a problem with theosophy... my problem with theosophy is that it teaches it's students that they are better than everyone else and that blacks, jews, and even Indians, are not able to manage their own affairs because they are inferior to the aryans, even though, if u believe this stuff to be true, the aryans should in fact be all dead by now, if they were the third race... I appreciate that in the late 19th century racial superiority was a big deal, but to still publish the same books today without adding lil caveats or footnotes to suggest that things have changed is cruel... it is cruel because it allows these themes to be exploited by ppl who have less than pure motives, and it is cruel becuase it is an insidious and underhand attack on the ppl who's religious texts it has sublimated into the great cosmic soup that is theosophy... so, lets cling to our lists, and kid ourselves we are superior to the rest of the world... let's pretend that we are kind hearted yet eccentric liberals when in reality, we are simply regurgitating a load of bunkum that wasn't all that hot 100 years ago, and let's forget that most of our theories do humanity a disservice while we pretend to serve them... |
|
|
|
05-02-2007, 05:06 AM
|
#32 (permalink) | ||||||
|
ex-member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 641
|
Re: Theosophical Hierarchy
I'll respond to a few parts of your post, Francis, the ones I have some understanding of ...
Quote:
I also believe that to arrive alone, without the company of Friends on the Way, is no longer an option ... Quote:
 Quote:
Root-manu and Seed-manu Fourteen manus preside over our planetary chain during its life-cycle, there being two principal or round-manus for each round. The first of each pair, appearing at the beginning of a round, is called the root-manu; the second, appearing towards the end, before the intervening twilight or nirvana, is the seed-manu, who presides over the holding of the seeds of life until the coming of the life-waves at the beginning of the next round. The root-manu appears on globe A, the seed-manu on the seventh globe (globe G). Root- and seed-manu, in certain relations, are spoken of as being respectively the prime cause and its accumulated final effect at the end of the round. As we are now in the middle of the fourth round, there have so far been seven principal or round-manus. By reason of nature's analogical procedures, there is for each globe of a planetary chain a root-manu at the beginning of its several succeeding periods of activity, and a seed-manu at the end of the same; as being their spiritual offspring, the names are the same as those by which the principal or round-manus are known. This list of root- and seed-manus for each round is given in The Laws of Manu (cf SD 2:309): 1) Svayambhuva, Svarochi or Svarochisha; 2) Auttami, Tamasa; 3) Raivata, Chakshusha; 4) Vaivasvata (our progenitor), Savarna; 5) Daksha-savarna, Brahma-savarna; 6) Dharma-savarna, Rudra-savarna; and 7) Rauchya, Bhautya. Vaivasvata is the primitive root-manu of our fourth human wave. Manu, insofar as the human life-wave is concerned, is not a man but collective humanity; yet it is likewise true that Manu is a spiritual individual -- a difficult doctrine to grasp at first presentation. The name Vaivasvata is also used for one of the seven minor manus who preside over the seven root-races of our planet. It is this latter that among other peoples is called Xisuthrus, Deucalion, Noah, etc. See also MANUSo, Francis ... I think that speaks quite directly to the 14 manus - now a word about the TEN Prajapatis (same source): Prajapatis (Sanskrit) [from praja that which is brought forth from pra forth + the verbal root jan to be born + pati lord] The producers, evolvers, or givers of life to all on the earth's planetary chain, and hence lords of offspring in the hierarchical sense. Prajapatis is likewise applicable mutatis mutandis to larger hierarchical divisions, such as a solar system or galaxy. The prajapatisI've highlighted the direct references to TEN Prajapatis in blue... and other salient points in red. Note that the source for these references include both the Kabbalistic SEPHIROTH, as well as the MAHABHARATA ... as also the Mazdean Wisdom of Persia."are, like the Sephiroth, only seven, including the synthetic Sephira of the triad from which they spring. Thus from Hiranyagarbha or Prajapati, the triune (primeval Vedic Trimurti, Agni, Vayu, and Surya), emanate the other seven, or again ten, if we separate the first three which exist in one . . . In the Mahabharata the Prajapati are 21 in number, or ten, six, and five (1065), thrice seven" (SD 1:89-90).These seven, ten, or more prajapatis correspond likewise to the Mazdean Amesha-Spentas or Amshaspends and the Hindu Saptarshis. The name prajapati is most commonly given to ten rishis or sages known as the mind-born sons of Brahma: Marichi, Atri, Angiras, Pulastya, Pulaha, Kratu, Vasishtha, Prachetas or Daksha, Bhrigu, and Narada. These are really collective names for the various classes of monads, each single prajapati representing also the spiritual-intellectual hierarch of his own particular hierarchy or class of monads. Hence the meaning of prajapati as lord or parent of offspring -- the ten classes of monads corresponding each to its own proper prajapati. Further the prajapatis are the parents of the seven or ten manus. The Puranic myths with their genealogies of the seven prajapatis, rishis, or manus are "but a vast detailed account of the progressive development and evolution of animal creation, one species after the other" (SD 2:253)."The whole personnel of the Brahmanas and Puranas -- the Rishis, Prajapatis, Manus, their wives and progeny -- belong to that pre-human period. All these are the Seed of Humanity, so to speak. It is around these 'Sons of God,' the 'Mind born' astral children of Brahma, that our physical frames have grown and developed to what they are now. For, the Puranic histories of all those men are those of our Monads, in their various and numberless incarnations on this and other spheres, events perceived by the 'Siva eye' of the ancient Seers, (the 'third eye' of our Stanzas) and described allegorically. Later on, they were disfigured for Sectarian purposes; mutilated, but still left with a considerable ground-work of truth in them. Nor is the philosophy less profound in such allegories for being so thickly veiled by the overgrowth of fancy" (SD 2:284) I guess HPB couldn't invent any of that stuff, but she did help bring it together so that we could study it in terms of comparative religion(s), and the common foundation of all the world's Spiritual Traditions.  Quote:
Jehovah, as per the essay by Rudolf Steiner, can be best understood, imho and as a student of the Ageless Wisdom - and not as someone writing from the perspective of the Hebrew, or Judeo-Christian Traditions - as a class of Creative Spirits ... rather than an individual, all-powerful `Deity.' However, if we consider the Theosophical or Esoteric Hierarchy in terms that mesh well with the true Spirit (sic!) of these other traditions, then Jehovah, or YHWH may be equated with Sanat Kumara, the `Lord of the World,' also the `Ancient of Days.' Perhaps it would be equally useful to say that Highest God in our own System, is THAT (`Being') who ensouls our own system, and has the physical Sun for `His' exoteric heart, while the `Heart of the Sun' ... is the true, Spiritual Sun of the Gayatri. You know, that ANCIENT Hindu Prayer? Were the Jewish and earlier traditions (such as the Chaldean/Babylonian) without a corresponding Inspiriation? Certainly not. And would there not have been a Divine Relationship established, and existing, even since far more ancient times than anything we see recorded in the Bible? Save for the events related to us symbolically in Genesis, I'd say - of course. Quote:
Damn, that must be awful convenient! Go away, you don't fit into my "own continuum!"  And if I don't want to face any karmic results for slandering others, and showing general disrepect, then I don't have to worry - so long as I don't believe in that sort of thing.  Yikes! I don't think this is how Nick and I see it, for this is not what we've been taught about karma. And yes, I've even come to understand that sometimes karma is very physical. Again, I can do not better than to quote HPB on karma-nemesis. Umm, Francis, this is starting to look really bad. Err, okay, look on the bright side: You have YET to show me something supposedly said by HPB, or taught, which we don't find is in fact, just the opposite - or precisely what you were, uh, kinda arguing against.  "An Occultist or a philosopher will not speak of the goodness or cruelty of Providence; but, identifying it with Karma-Nemesis, he will teach that nevertheless it guards the good and watches over them in this, as in future lives; and that it punishes the evil-doer -- aye, even to his seventh rebirth. So long, in short, as the effect of his having thrown into perturbation even the smallest atom in the Infinite World of harmony, has not been finally readjusted. For the only decree of Karma -- an eternal and immutable decree -- is absolute Harmony in the world of matter as it is in the world of Spirit. It is not, therefore, Karma that rewards or punishes, but it is we, who reward or punish ourselves according to whether we work with, through and along with nature, abiding by the laws on which that Harmony depends, or -- break them. "Nor would the ways of Karma be inscrutable were men to work in union and harmony, instead of disunion and strife. For our ignorance of those ways -- which one portion of mankind calls the ways of Providence, dark and intricate; while another sees in them the action of blind Fatalism; and a third, simple chance, with neither gods nor devils to guide them -- would surely disappear, if we would but attribute all these to their correct cause. With right knowledge, or at any rate with a confident conviction that our neighbours will no more work to hurt us than we would think of harming them, the two-thirds of the World's evil would vanish into thin air. Were no man to hurt his brother, Karma-Nemesis would have neither cause to work for, nor weapons to act through. . . . We stand bewildered before the mystery of our own making, and the riddles of life that we will not solve, and then accuse the great Sphinx of devouring us. But verily there is not an accident in our lives, not a misshapen day, or a misfortune, that could not be traced back to our own doings in this or in another life" (SD 1:643-4).Again, I highlighted in blue the most pertinent statement, for other than this, you and HPB have made a common point. The angry, wrathful, tribal deity, looking after "the chosen people," is but a dark page in Humanity's past archive of misunderstandings. Would that there were not karma involved with such a travesty!  Quote:
 The five sets of faces has a signficance that I'm really not qualified to say much about. The Five Dhyani Buddhas and Bodhisattvas, though, exoterically, number Seven, esoterically ... this much we're plainly told. Humanity has developed through FIVE Root Races, with two left to come. Or, in terms of the Seven, the first two (in their entirety) were non-physical, thus leaving no physical vestiges. This would especially make it difficult to provide "fossilized evidence," wouldn't it? Of course, this all assumes we believe in non-physical worlds, else I'm just whistlin' Dixie! (cont'd) |
||||||
|
|
|
|
05-02-2007, 05:08 AM
|
#33 (permalink) | ||||||||
|
ex-member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 641
|
Re: Theosophical Hierarchy
Quote:
 Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Again, we need a different thread. The Third Race was Lemurian, which was not even physical (!) until ~18 million years ago. With the concretization of the form, came the division of the sexes, all this precipitated by the arrival upon our planet of the Kumaras from Venusian Humanity. The Atlantean RR was the 4th, although most people today are still Atlantean in their consciousness, while the material evolution has brought us up to the point of the 5th RR in time - signs of the 6th sub-race being clear in some parts of the world. Quote:
Even a few decades makes a tremendous difference. So when you are writing about the Jews, and reminding us that this was in the 1920s through 1940s ... try to also keep in mind that the World War(s) had not yet been won during much of this time, and even when it had, we didn't even KNOW what "Civil Rights" was!!! We knew enough about love, and Brotherhood, that I would ASK you to read, our oft-cited `Maha Chohan's Letter' ... and consider the rather progressive view that he suggests. Quote:
Peace, and Namaskar, ~andrew |
||||||||
|
|
|
|
05-02-2007, 01:00 PM
|
#34 (permalink) |
|
Super Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: London, UK, Malkhut she'be'Assiyah
Posts: 1,410
|
Re: Theosophical Hierarchy
i'd like to hear how this stuff about jews is actually understood nowadays, myself. i've already seen how complete ignorance around our texts is seen as the norm.
b'shalom bananabrain |
|
|
|
|
05-02-2007, 01:10 PM
|
#35 (permalink) | |
|
Executive Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Southern Maryland
Posts: 1,918
|
Re: Theosophical Hierarchy
Quote:
|
|
|
|
|
|
05-02-2007, 02:27 PM
|
#36 (permalink) |
|
Executive Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Westmorland, California
Posts: 736
|
Re: Theosophical Hierarchy
Hi everybody,
I am a little surprised to hear that Theosophy is called racist, so I thought I would respond. It has been said there is only one dogma in Theosophy, and that dogma is brotherhood. Brotherhood is the first rule of Theosophy, a new member only has the requirement of agreeing to have full brotherhood with people of all races, and brotherhood is the one teaching from which all other Theosophical teachings come. (Is there any other philosophy like Theosophy in the world that requires white people to accept black people as equals?) Racism does not make sense in Theosophy, because, according to Theosophy, all white Theosophists have been born in black bodies before, and there is a chance that white Theosophists will again be born into black bodies. For this reason, racism does not make sense. It is the senselessness of racism that causes Theosophy to discard it. I can verify there is not a smidgin of racsim in any of the Theosophical meetings I have attended. As a matter of fact, at last year's convention, the best speaker was a black man, and everyone was very appreciative of his expertise. Such is the proof that racism is forbidden in Theosophy. |
|
|
|
|
05-02-2007, 03:58 PM
|
#37 (permalink) | |
|
Will you also go away?
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,098
|
Re: Theosophical Hierarchy
Quote:
From where I stand, I read 'Big Brother-hood'? I, for my part, delight in every spiritual tradition, even though it is different from my own, and would never presume to inform people that the Koran, or the Vedas, or the Pali Canon, or whatever, have been falsified, fabricated, faked, etc. Unity in diversity ... not a unity in tyranny. Thomas |
|
|
|
|
|
05-02-2007, 05:38 PM
|
#38 (permalink) |
|
Executive Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Westmorland, California
Posts: 736
|
~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~
"...they got their doctrine all wrong..."
--> Ah, Thomas, you are ever so quick with your negative over-generalizations. It is a shame you are not interested in a discussion on specific similarities between the Sephiroth, Hinduism, and Buddhism (especially since all three came from the same source). You may continue to say I condemn all Jewish doctrine, if you wish. It is the mission of Theosophy to call a specific mistake a specific mistake. The very motto of Theosophy is, "There is no religion higher than truth." "...tyranny..." --> At lease you did not insinuate that Theosophy is nothing but a pack of lies, like you did the time before. Things are getting better! I have not condemned all of Christianity and Judiasm as you have declared, I have pointed out specific mistakes. If I had made such a wide-sweeping condemnation, you would have been in the right to say what you said. As it is, it is only a smear campaign that attempts to stifle a free discussion of specific religious concepts. Your philosophy allows you to make such sweeping negative over-generalizations. Mine does not. Now, perhaps, you can see part of why I choose mine over yours. You may continue to describe Theosophy as tyranny (that actually makes me chuckle) if you wish. In response, I choose to quote the Golden Stairs one more time. "A clean life, an open mind, a pure heart, an eager intellect, an unveiled spiritual perception, a brotherliness for one’s co-disciple, a readiness to give and receive advice and instruction; a loyal sense of duty to the Teacher, a willing obedience to the behests of Truth, once we have placed our confidence in and believe that Teacher to be in possession of it; a courageous endurance of personal injustice, a brave declaration of principles, a valiant defence of those who are unjustly attacked, and a constant eye to the ideal of human progression and perfection which the Secret Science depicts -- these are the golden stairs up the steps of which the learner may climb to the Temple of Divine Wisdom." - H. P. Blavatsky I await your next negative over-generalization. (It may give me a chance to discuss another specific Theosophical concept. Cool beans!) |
|
|
|
|
05-02-2007, 06:04 PM
|
#39 (permalink) |
|
Super Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Near Boston
Posts: 1,781
|
Re: Theosophical Hierarchy
I have to admit a lot of this theology seems to me like an overly-complicated reality map, and an oversimplification of earlier traditions to fit the pattern. But I don't think it's any more odd than any other belief system, just less known. There are a lot of relatively more recent myths that have been created and embraced, like a lot of the New Agey stuff, that I think in time, as long as it doesn't fade out, will just become another thing people believe.
Maybe one of the things that makes theosophy harder to accept is that mostly we don't really view the world mythically anymore. When something comes from our ancestors we can say, "Oh yeah. That's how they expressed things." or, "Things like that really happened back then." But when it's in our own time all we can manage to say is, "What? Well that's not rational. We're rational thinkers now. No room for myth-making." I also don't really see what the problem is if an older text has some racist language. We see that a lot in religion. There's a lot of xenophobia, a lot of triumphalism. So long as that's not current belief, why's it matter? If something's become somewhat canonical it's not like the members of a faith are likely to go back and rewrite it. Dauer |
|
|
|
|
05-02-2007, 06:23 PM
|
#40 (permalink) |
|
Executive Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Westmorland, California
Posts: 736
|
~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~
Dauer,
You said, "...a lot of this theology [Theosophy?] seems to me like an overly-complicated reality map...." --> Theosophy is, by far, the most complicated philosophy I have ever seen. (The bits and pieces I post on this Forum are only the tip of the iceberg.) "...just less known." --> Theosophy in its present form is only a little over 100 years old. "Maybe one of the things that makes theosophy harder to accept is that mostly we don't really view the world mythically anymore." --> You remind me of something I just read on the Buddhist Forum, how one fellow wants to ignore all of the mythology in Buddhism and only concentrate on things like doing meditation, etc. Actually, there is room for such thinking in Theosophy. No one is forced to accept any part of Theosophy, and people can pick and choose what they like. There are visitors to Theosophy who only like one small part of Theosophy, and other Theosophists cannot force another part of Theosophy on them. Forcing doctrine on anyone is forbidden. For example, if a person takes a look at Theosophy and says from the beginning they reject outright the idea of reincarnation, we do not have a problem with that. Theosophy does not allow any dogma -- with one exception. "We're rational thinkers now. No room for myth-making." --> Theosophy demands rational thinking from its members. Any beliefs in ancient myths are entertained only after they make sense to us. "I also don't really see what the problem is if an older text has some racist language. We see that a lot in religion." --> I appreciate your open-mindedness. It is quite refreshing to hear such open-mindedness. "There's a lot of xenophobia, a lot of triumphalism." --> Theosophy was established for the very purpose of eliminating xenophobia and triumphalism. This is the basis from which brotherhood is created. "So long as that's not current belief, why's it matter?" --> I appreciate your religious pluralism. |
|
|
|
|
05-02-2007, 11:56 PM
|
#41 (permalink) |
|
Executive Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: liverpool, the 2008 winners of the capital of culture, england
Posts: 921
|
Re: Theosophical Hierarchy
so then, if its all brotherhood, and "u" ppl are the ayrans, then, shucks, but...
does that make u the ayran brotherhood..? tis a joke, btw... belief in a hierarchy and superior races but theosophy aims to eliminate xenophobia and triumphalism... now, I might not be the cleverest poster ere but, surely, that's contradictory..? |
|
|
|
|
05-03-2007, 12:02 AM
|
#42 (permalink) | |
|
ex-member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 641
|
Re: Theosophical Hierarchy
Quote:
Before I post a single word to a thread on Root Races and such, I think it would be helpful to clarify that. And I'll do it again on that thread. How about you. Are you racist, bigoted? ~andrew |
|
|
|
|
|
05-03-2007, 12:33 AM
|
#43 (permalink) | |
|
ex-member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 641
|
Re: Theosophical Hierarchy
Quote:
In simplest terms, Theosophical and esoteric teachings underscore the importance of distinguishing between the form - or vehicle ... and the Indwelling Consciousness, Soul (or in some cases, Spirit). The Soul, is individualized in the human kingdom. It is the Sutratma of Hindusim, which reincarnates. It is beyond gender, and will incarnate in vehicles of both genders, though sometimes one sex will predominate for a string of lives (spanning thousands of years) ... based on various energies. The personality, or form, on the other hand, is clearly gendered - though this was not always so. Pre Lemurian days (3rd Race), many millions of years ago, Humanity was hermaphroditic, or androgynous. The dividing of the sexes is a critical stage in the human story, and takes up the notion of a KARMA affecting the entire race, which is still affecting us deeply today, and is the cause of much suffering. Does a woman need to hear that stated, or does she not already know this intimately? Anyway, the point I was making is that the Soul is the primary unit that is evolving, and that matter, or the personality vehicle, is secondary. Both are important, but nothing can destroy the Soul, while clearly, the physical body - and even the astral and mental bodies - can definitely be harmed and destroyed. Really this is natural, since we die to the flesh and blood, and also lose our vitalizing principle (housed in the etheric body) every single time we die. Then, gradually, we shed the astral body via `purgatory,' and spend some amount of "time" in a truly timeless state, the Devachan (lower to upper mental planes). When finally we've exhausted the causes for our stay in those realms, we retain the `Causal body' (higher mental vehicle) ... and discard the lower. We take upon ourselves NEW, fresh vehicles - in the lower mental, astral and physical worlds, successively. These are built for us by the devas of these eithers, and Humanity itself contributes the outermost vehicle ... though the parents also assist the child a great deal, both in terms of the form, and the Life, of the new personality vehicle. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. ... was an advanced Soul (and a Disicple) ... acting through a vehicle which was certainly not Lemurian (no such vehicles any longer exist) ... but which is the modern descendent, in terms of material evolution, of that ERA in Human development. All Asiatic bodies (from Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese, Indonesian, Native American, Tibetan, and so one ... even including many which do not seem to be of this grouping - such as Native Am under `Asiatic' ... yes I know that doesn't "fit") ... all such bodies are, similarly, the descendents of the 4th, or Atlantean Root Race. And the Aryan phase, overlapping with the Atlantean even by as much as a million years ... includes the five sub-races: 1) Hindus (obviously meaning Aryan Indian), 2) Sumerians, 3) Egyptians, 4) Hellenes, and 5) Europeans. I have also seen these listed as: 1) Hindu-Egyptian, 2) Aryan-Semite, 3) Iranian, 4) Celtic, 5) Teutonic, and 6) Austral-American. Note that the original Semite is an Atlantean offshoot, or sub-race, being the 5th sub-race of the Atlantean Era! This begs the question, what is the difference between the "original Semite" and the "Aryan Semite," and the simplest answer is that they are separated by tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of years. Also, everything Biblical concerns the Aryan Semites, and not the "original Semites" of Atlantean times. Still, it's been ages since I've read much into all this ... and I think what interests me as much as getting at what the Theosohpical teachings mean ... is making sure that one understands WHY - and thus sees that one can talk about race without being racist. The teachings are given, in simplest terms, to help us understand how and why Brotherhood is a FACT of NATURE ... and not to justify anyone's bigotry, prejudice, or personal race-hatred. To attempt to co-opt the teachings for the latter purpose, is to demonstrate that one has failed to understand them utterly. And as we look around, I sometimes cringe when I see what we're still up against ... `Eve of Destruction,' by Barry McGuire ... look it up! Also, please visit Wikipedia on Root race - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... as well as on Aryan race - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ... and note carefully this statement: Blavatsky's use of the terms like "Aryan Race" and "Root Race" are defended by modern Theosophists and others who adopt Theosophical ideas as "not connected to demagogic ideas." Their arguments can include statements to the effect that even the current "globalization" society considers the term and related division of humanity into races to be valid and useful in several circumstances (as explained in the article "race"). The explanation is that, Blavatsky, like the subsequent esoteric philosophers who expressed similar lines of thought, believed and intended a Universal Brotherhood of humanity and wrote that "all men have spiritually and physically the same origin" and that "mankind is essentially of one and the same essence." (The Key to Theosophy, Section 3).Hmmm .... I'll double-post portions of this, to start the thread on Root Races, for anyone that wants to discuss that more directly. It does not belong in the thread on `Hierarchy' - for what should be obvious reasons! Namaskar ... and Wesak Blessings, ~andrew |
|
|
|
|
|
05-03-2007, 03:41 AM
|
#44 (permalink) |
|
Executive Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Westmorland, California
Posts: 736
|
~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~
Andrew,
You said, "...one can talk about race without being racist." --> True. This is a good time to discuss Theosophy's teachings regarding what I call the Processions of the Nations and Races. Each country takes its turn in being a superpower for an odd number of centuries. At one time, France was a superpower. France ebbed, and Britian became a superpower. Britain ebbed, and the U.S. has become today's superpower. According to Theosophy, this is intentional, and is part of a Divine Plan. As you probably know, Theosophy says the next superpower will be either Mexico or some other country in South or Middle America. I am sure there will be people who scoff at such an idea, but that is what Theosophy teaches. Look at what is happening in the U.S.A. today. The number of English speakers is being replaced by the number of Spanish speakers at an amazing rate. It is part of a plan recorded millions of years ago. For those who scoff at such an idea, I can only remind them of the British who scoffed when the American colonies dared to rise against them only a few hundred years ago. (One or two hundred years from now, I fully expect to be reincarnated into a Spanish-speaking body, living in the greatest -- all Spanish-speaking -- culture in the world.) So, too, there is what I call a Procession of the Races. Centuries ago, the Chinese culture reached an incredible level of sophistication, when Caucasians were still hitting each other over the head with cudgels in Europe. At that time, the yellow race was the dominant race, presently the white race is dominant (which is as much a bad thing as it is good), and a soon-to-appear "Tan" Race will one day displace today's dominant whites. (For those who think the white race will never be surpassed, Theosophy has a rude surprise.) To complete the picture, there has been talk of a Black-race culture, centured in the area of India centuries ago, that was very sophisticated, but has vanished without a trace. I do not see it as white supremacy. I see it as each race taking turns in the Procession of Races (as I call it) It has been said that, although the white race now produces white racists, the future Tan Race will not. Progress is being made! |
|
|
|
|
05-03-2007, 04:26 AM
|
#45 (permalink) |
|
ex-member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 641
|
Re: Theosophical Hierarchy
Indeed, many good points here, Nick. And I think there is a rude awakening for white supremacists! Theosophy turns their bigotry and narrow ideology on its head! I didn't know about the idea that a Spanish-speaking country, sub-USA, would be the next in a procession ... but I did come across an idea of Dane Rudhyar's just the other day (in `Occult Preparations for the New Age') stating that the Trans-Himalayan Branch of the Brotherhood may have already been relocated to South America, in the Andes Mtns. This doesn't surprise me at all. The Chinese Communist takever of the former country of Tibet, and the resultant displacement of HH the DL, as well as the scattering, or exodus, of various Tibetan monks and lamas to the West, was all foretold. And this, perhaps, inevitably ... would lead to a forced relocation of that Branch of the Brotherhood. Then again, it is stated several times, that not even the greatest TECHNOLOGY (such as spy satellites) can penetrate the Secrecy of the Brotherhood ... for this is its ONE stipulation, in working with Humanity. We may have BANISHED Them, during Atlantean days, and forced Their withdrawal from exoteric cooperation with Humanity ... but Their continued Presence with us is occultly protected. And, speaking of Atlantis, it's worth mentioning that in keeping with what you've just said about the rise and fall of nations, Nick ... Atlantis, too, over many millions of years, was said to go through this same process. The height of the Egyptian Dynasties was tens of thousands of years before anything we know of as yet ... even hundreds of thousands, this being a small revival of the earlier glory of the Atlantean cu |
