Theosophical Hierarchy

[AndrewX]

Good story, Nick. I agree, the Theosophical presentation of Karma, the Law of Cause & Effect, of Sowing & Reaping ... leaves us with an understanding of the Universe (and even our little backwoods planet) as a fair place, where everything works out for the greatest good, of the greatest number. Yet in the big picture, everything, and everyone, is accounted for!

Biblically, this is made clear in Christ's statement that "not a sparrow falls" that the Lord does not know it. I just get sick of the old white guy, with the long flowing beard, and all this mess about worshipping the Wayshower ... and the absurdity of a god that plays favorites. Kinda makes ya wonder if people actually believe all that!!!

(And I know that many here don't ... )

This part especially, Nick:

The thing I like about the Theosophical Judgement Day is that it is all a matter of fine shades of good and bad. (It is not one monolithic good and bad Judgement Day like the Christians teach.)

... gets my attention.

I believe in the notion that our "Judgment Days" are really occurring on a sliding scale, all the time. Every day, in fact, we are "judged" for how well we've met up to life's challenges, and how well we've taken advantage of the opportunities that are offered. No one is sitting there with a tally-book waiting to hear how many times we've called out to Jesus, or prayed in the name of Allah, or sung Hare Krishna, etc.

Prayer, meditation, yoga (of various sorts), and all manners of spiritual discipline all have their place. As the Simon & Garfunkel song tells us:

And here's to you, Mrs. Robinson,
Jesus loves you more than you will know (Wo wo wo).
God bless you, please, Mrs. Robinson,
Heaven holds a place for those who pray (Hey hey hey, hey hey hey).

cheers,

~andrew

[Dondi]

Originally Posted by Nick the Pilot

Quite frankly, things did not go so well. There was one particular issue he was called on the rug for, and it did not go well. (The fact that he disputed the issue did not help things.) As a result, he has had to come back to Earth and work off a little excess bad karma.

Been following this thread for some time now, and now you've piqued my interest.

When you say your father had to come back to earth to wrom off his bad karma, are you suggesting that at this very moment your father, assuming that the Judgment Day and return to earth happened in a short time, is now reincarnated somewhere on earth, probaly a few years old at this very moment? And if so, would it be possible, or even wise, for you to try and find out where he is? That to me would be very strange, to see your father as a toddler or what not.

BTW, I hope I'm not getting too personal here. Pardon me if I am.

[AndrewX]

Regarding the idea of Hierarchies, here are some simplified versions of charts from Alice Bailey's teachings, which will have correspondences - and overlaps - with Theosophical presentations.

Anything that seems of interest, Nick - et al - just mention.

The first chart concerns our Solar Hierarchy ... the second, Earth's own Planetary Hiearchy, inclusive of all of Humanity, up to the Christ and Masters, and the Lord of the World (YHVH, or `God'). These two charts are both from Initiation Human and Solar.

The 2nd chart is drawn from the perspective of Humanity, but not the Devas (Angelic Kingdom), who share the planet with us ... consisting of ~140 billion evolving Lives, while Humanity only numbers ~60 billion.

Yet another, more elaborate chart (below, from Esoteric Astrology) shows the 7 Remaining Creative Hierarchies ... and this is a somewhat different - we might say, more inclusive - approach ... to the idea of Hierarchies of Life, esoterically.

In the third chart, Humanity stretches across the lower five hierarchies - because our evolution spans these five, of the Seven planes. We have a "multiple" or compound soul ... and even in the simplest analysis there are technically TWO different entities (Individualities) evolving via ONE Reincarnating Soul.

Viewed in terms of trinities, we could be said to be a trinity of trinities - with G-D as the highest, and synthesizing Perfect 10th ... yet what esotericism refers to as the Soul does not descend below the Mental plane - making it the 9th Creative Hierarchy in this chart (counting downward).

[AndrewX]

Some folks go nuts with charts. I remember doing that, and in the end, I have to admit - I could never have come to my present understanding without them!

Of course, there's a lot of conceptuality involved, and attempting to visualize a lot of this is somewhat difficult ... but then, I wonder, what does the average Christian picture when s/he reads Genesis?

So - while I am happy to say that Blake's `Ancient of Days' has always held a certain appeal to me (just as his poetry, and other art), I recognize that this is anthropomorphism, pure & simple.

Is the conceptual approach really superior? It probably drives artistic types crazy!

Still, in five diagrams from A Treastise on Cosmic Fire (two of them excerpted from The Theosophist at the turn of the century), we get from Cosmogenesis squarely into Anthropogenesis.

The first chart is much like what you've already shared, Nick. It shows the Macrocosm, and the relationships between highest Parabrahm and lowest man. Since the microcosm reflects the macrocosm, the next two charts show the Creation of the Solar System by our Solar Logos.

Note in the first chart that a Human Monad fits neatly inside a given one of the Seven Major Planetary Logoi of our Solar System (toward the bottom, Monadic Plane). This means, in effect, that actually human beings belong to one of SEVEN `Fathers Who art in Heaven,' although I take `Father' to refer to the (Human) Monad, rather than the `Parent' Planetary Spirit. Still, we are all strangers here, just passing through.

As for the relationship, people may look at a chart, see a tiny triangle within a greater one, and say that this is absurd! It is, after all, just a chart! Yet to me, the triune relationship is already apparent. I may need clarification, some elaboration on how the Prototypical Three get mirrored for me, and how the personality comes into Communion with the Soul, then returns "to the Father's House" ...

... yet I am confident that I will not find `God' - in the mirror!

The fourth chart shows Our Solar Logos, with the Seven and Three (Ten) Schemes of Spiritual Evolution taking place (during 100 `Years of Brahma,' or 3.11 trillion years) in our Solar System.

The final chart is Earth's Scheme only of Spiritual evolution. All Seven Chains of Seven globes each are depicted, yet we know that these do not co-exist temporally - only, "in the Mind of God."

And yeah, Francis, you can find plenty of references to `Dvipas' and `Manvantaras' in Hindusim. Care to show us where ol' HPB and AAB got it wrong? Perhaps some illumination and insight into how these charts are off ... or did they get it about right? Wanna remind us - where again - did they take this information, out of those other, more ancient sources?

I am waiting for the Commentary. I would really appreciate some detailed notes. Just demonstrate, if you don't mind, how all we've got here is

Originally Posted by Francis king

"dusprayukta dharma", badly arranged or badly composed teachings...

You know, it shouldn't be difficult. You seem to have a knack for these things!

[Nick the Pilot]

Hey, Andrew, I see you used that number 3.11 trillion again....

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by AndrewX

... to have a knack for these things!

Looks like a ship's schematic diagram. Very easy to read.

surprised Andrew? lol

v/r

Joshua

[AndrewX]

Originally Posted by Quahom

surprised Andrew? lol

Oh not at all! It's been said, mathematics is the language of God ...

Originally Posted by Nick the Pilot

Hey, Andrew, I see you used that number 3.11 trillion again....

I know, maybe it's something about the relationship between 1 and 10 (1X10, the relationship of the lower to the higher, or imperfection to relative perfection) ... then 10X10 again, or relative perfection raised to the power of the Divine!

... like, along the lines of our relationship to the Soul, then again to the Monad.

Lots of reaching I guess, since it really comes down to my faux pas, plain & simple.

But what's a couple of decimal places when you get to the several trillions ...

[Francis king]

ooh, such pretty colours...

[Francis king]

but what use is it?

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Francis king

but what use is it?

Well, if one intended to build something...it would be considered a blueprint or diagram. Or if one intended to explain something, then it is a schematic in reflection of what was being described. Problem is, not everyone is visually oriented, so 2/3rds lose "sight" of the originator's intent...

[AndrewX]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Well, if one intended to build something...it would be considered a blueprint or diagram. Or if one intended to explain something, then it is a schematic in reflection of what was being described. Problem is, not everyone is visually oriented, so 2/3rds lose "sight" of the originator's intent...

Right on all counts, Q. Some look out at the world, understand it as the "Creator's Canvas" (or by way of a similar metaphor), then are drawn into a reverie regarding the Divine Artist.

For the Egyptians, the term often used was `Master Builder' ( think `Baka' from the movie, `The Ten Commandments,' portrayed by the actor Vincent Price). This motif comes down to us today in Freemasonry ... just as the acronym TGAOTU - The Great Architect of the Universe!

So, while the charts are really designed to assist all students, it is known that not all students will benefit as fully, while some will not take much interest at all. I rather think today's multimedia (AV in general, but especially CG) will come to supersede some of the older charts ... yet never have I seen the geometry, and the detail, as provided in DK's Solar & Planetary Schemes of evolution.

I have a few more that essentially bring this series into the second half of a natural progression ... so that, in a word, Francis, the combined series can help to show something of our place in Cosmos, as also our place in the "lesser Scheme of things" (meaning - Earth's own evolution, as relating to that of other planets in our own Solar System, our closest neighbors).

The second series of charts show direct, practical - though also symbolic and representational - relationships ... with relevance to esoteric Meditation, even to the point of demonstrating (from one point of view) what it is that all students are seeking to accomplish. And again, the detail may not appeal to everyone equally. In the very least, however, one hopes to get the general idea.

It's not that such charts - as those that depict the chakras - have not existed in the past. They date back thousands of years in the instruction of the Far East. But show me where AAB or HPB just "ripped this stuff off, and badly sorted it," Francis ... and I'll show you some beachfront property in Wyoming. You won't believe the prices!!!

[AndrewX]

I have studied the teachings, upon which these images are based (provided by that Teacher), for ~17 years. I have meditated, and I have experienced the Service Aspect wherein we put into practice all that we have learned.

And while my understanding is far from complete, and often a bit leaning on the side of over-intellectualism, I still think that these charts are useful, as they were provided to help us understand what is taking place between Soul and personality, as the process of at-one-ment is carried forth.

One's effort, and interest, in the esoteric path usually begins with study. Whatever devotion, and the more emotional side of aspiration, that is in the disciple (a probationary chela, a `student') ... will lead him or her to look further within, to press on beyond the outer husks, and to penetrate closer to the heart of the Mysteries.

In this search, I think we all find that there is much more to the esoteric path than any set of teachings will provide. Even if one finds that HPB's writings are a suitable "textbook" (or study course) for the time being, we cannot for long deceive ourselves and believe that the wisdom has somehow been translated, and reduced to a few words (or even long treatises) on the printed page. This desire to make a paper pope out of the Gupta Vidya must be overcome.

DK's chart regarding Meditation must thus be taken with a grain of salt, as also those showing the relationships between the various force centres (chakras) and the Solar Lotus (the 12-petalled Sahasrara, or `Heart within the Head' - the esoteric heart center, with its correspondence to the Anahata, or exoteric heart center).

Again and again, DK stresses that to understand the Soul in terms of the Solar Lotus, hovering above the head of the student, is to concretize and conceptualize that which is essentially beyond these forms of materiality and concrete thought. The Soul Itself actually exists within, or upon, the plane of Higher Mind ... yet even to say such a thing, and to draw lines on a chart, with a "pretty flower" (I will try to anticipate your most astute observations here, Francis) - is to REIFY an inner relationship, and state of things which is really still beyond our understanding.

Not that some mystics, and esotericists (certainly those who have been very gifted and carefully trained clairvoyants), haven't actually observedthe realities which are here being conveyed in chart form. But even when they do observe the Soul, it is always stated that there is NO HOPE of fully communicating the vision, whether that has been the Soul as a Being, or in terms of the "form-side," including the structure of the Solar Lotus in the Causal Body (Karana Sarira, eh Francis?).

So, the charts only go so far. They are hard to read, in terms of some of the small notation, except in print ... and perhaps that is fine. The set of relationships, and correspondences, both between the various centers of all the bodies, as well as between the centers, the petals of the Solar Lotus, and the central JEWEL contained therein (the Monad, the Spark - of blue, Electrical, `Cosmic Fire') ... is something I find quite fascinating.

What more can I make of it, after all, except what I bring to it from my own experiences and insights?

But when once we start to begin to MAYBE parse a few things together ...

eg, OM MANI PADME HUM (Om! The Jewel is in the Lotus!) - Hmmmm ...

- ah well, the `Aha!' is unforgettable, and I truly think we are forever changed, for it.

Master M. says, "Read less, meditate more." And they all seem to say, SERVICE is what we're really here for. Even meditation, as a form of Service, is sometimes not the Dharma for which we are called, in a given moment, or phase of life. All three, seem vital for spiritual progress.

NAMASKAR

Oh, and FYI, if you want the symbolism, and esoteric meaning, regarding some of the coloring of the Solar Lotus in the third chart ... you'll just have to read `A Treatise on Cosmic Fire' (or as much of the 1283 pages that moves you ). It was provided as the "psychological and symbolic key" to HPB's `Secret Doctrine.'

[Nick the Pilot]

-- double post -- (goofy software bug)

[Nick the Pilot]

Andrew,

You said,

"Even if one finds that HPB's writings are a suitable "textbook" (or study course) for the time being, we cannot for long deceive ourselves and believe that the wisdom has somehow been translated, and reduced to a few words (or even long treatises) on the printed page."

--> The difficult thing about Blavatsky's writings is that, there is so much information it is easy to get lost in all of it. (I have dedicated myself to bringing order and sequence to her writings.)

"...and the central JEWEL contained therein (the Monad, the Spark - of blue, Electrical, `Cosmic Fire')...."

--> This is why I prefer Theosophy over Christianity. In Christianity, people go from nothing to human to perfected in about 80 years. In Theosophy, such perfection takes billions of years -- which makes more sense to me.

"OM MANI PADME HUM (Om! The Jewel is in the Lotus!)"

--> Have you heard the Theosophical interpretation of "The Jewel is in the Lotus"? The jewel is the Monad, and the lotus is the human body. When I think of it that way, it makes a lot of sense to me.

[Nick the Pilot]

Andrew,

You said,

"I know that not every Theosophist is a student of Alice Bailey, but it might be worth stating, for record, that in a great many cases, students of AAB are usually also students of HPB, or else have in interest in Theosophy as the Foundation of modern esotericism."

--> Have you seen this webpage? It discusses the relationship between Blavatsky's and Bailey's teachings.

Theosophy's Shadow:  A Critical Look at the Claims and Teachings of Alice A. Bailey by Nicholas Weeks.