Theosophical Hierarchy

[Manichaean Seek]

Originally Posted by Bruce Michael

Hi Andre,
Are you studying with Gilbert Clark's group?

Sons Aumen Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Gnostic Order of Nazorean Essenes

Greetings,
Br.Bruce

Br.Bruce

I am Bruce. I am curious, why do you ask?

Andre

[Bruce Michael]

Originally Posted by Manichaean Seek

Br.Bruce

I am Bruce. I am curious, why do you ask?

Andre

He has a very large website, doesn't he?

I am obviously interested in such things.

God Bless,
Br.Bruce

[Manichaean Seek]

Br.Bruce

Yes he has


Andre

[ChristianMyst]

I do not question your beliefs, I simply point out that often, it would appear, in attempting to 'correct' the 'errors' of Christian doctrine, you interpret them according to your own determinations, which is not the case at all. If one truly wishes to understand Christianity, the best way is to do it, not read about what someone, who doesn't do it, thinks about it.

I gather this must work in reverse as well.

Nick, although I am with you on your views, you must be about out of pearls, lol. It seems there is an imbalance of representation of the alternative belief system that this Forum suggests. There is a stronger representation of "faith" than a learned, examined, questioned and demonstrable "belief" at play here, then the Forum name suggests. My question, is, is this forum about [defending] Theosophy. (If so, why would we bother? Theosophists have no interests in conversions, or desuading one against their faith.) Or, is it about those who have this different, but certainly not "lessor" belief system from what [this] board considers a non-mainstream philosophy, and who desire to enter into intelligent discussions about it, or reflect on its fundamentals to those who inquire?

ChristianMyst

[ChristianMyst]

Nick the Pilot, you said:"I would like to discuss the relationship of animals to humans and Heaven. According to Theosophy, at the end of a world-period, animals are promoted to humans, plants are promoted to animals, minerals are promoted to plants, etc. All consciousness in the universe eventually passes through the human phase, and experiences Heaven and Nirvana. How is such an idea seen in your belief system? Can animals go to Heaven and Nirvana? How about plants and bacteria?"
I say: I have never come across anything like the above. Whilst on earth one of my tasks is to refrine and uplift humans,animals, planets and even minerals by using spiritual weapons and my focus in to be placed on freeing the Spirit from the flesh and freeing the Light from Matter by doing good deeds and works to the benefit of all. I have never seen in Neo-Manichaean teaching that animals, plants and minerals are promoted. I on the otherhand will say, in light off my second sentence, all which I managed to uplift and refrine will not fall into darkness with the rest of the universe but will follow after me - what I have spent my time on 'collecting particles of light (by good deeds, pure heart, modest action and I have succedded in refining and uplift of things around me). Yes, consciousness passes through, but the highet aspects remain. Yes animals do dwell in Heaven and by refining and freeing animals of 'darkness' they too become one of those who ascend to the Heavens. Plants also. Bacteria- thats odd, it lives and makes up a part of the make-up of light, so yes.

Andre

Really. Such a very big Universe to be only about a few incidental humans of a few score years. Surely infinity can be put to better use then to the immediate anthropomorphisize needs yourself, Andre, and some chosen contemporaries. Is it not so very difficult to set yourself above all things and to center yourself at the core of the Creator, the Universe and the Meaning of Life. Can the Love and Compassion of Christianity be so truely limited as to entertain only the exaultedness of a very few, select creations? What is the value, What is the meaning, What is the purpose that is so great about yourself and your represented Man, in this infetesimal body of time that warrents so great an effort by some Absolute Creator? Can all of [This] be about you, and all of [That] too? If there is but a glimmer of doubt then it is worth exploring that spark.

[Manichaean Seek]

ChristianMyst,

Firstly I will have to say that you were not very clear in your posting and I would recommend that in future posts that you make simple your sentences, and most importantly get straight to the point to avoid confusion on my behalf.

I do not indeed or willing set out 'to set myself above all things or to center myself at the core of the Creator, the Universe and the Meanining of Life'. Lets look at the logic, I as being created cannont be greater or even be at the centre of that which created me or in the centre of the one whom is the Absolute (the one above the creater diety). In reality, it is the Absolute whom I invite to become the centre of my very being, and my spiritual essence (that is I invite into my temple, my spirit, the highest, most pure, most righteousness Absolute, the highest form of the God Most High) and by spiritual gifts given to me by the Absolute, and the Ultimate Spiritual being I can begin to have 'things' collect around me, but it is not I who becomes the centre of everything, but since the Absolute, the Ultimate, the Most High is invited into my centre, and everything and my being are centered around the Absolute.

Love and Compassion of true Christianity (that is the faith in its most simple and primitive form-i.e the form after the time of Yeshua's ( Blessed be His Name and Peace Be Upon Him) apparent death up to the 3/5 centuries AD). I am docetic.

I hope that the largest paragraph will help you understand that love and compassion is not indeed found amongst the few. We all have the ability to do the same as I had spoke of in the largest paragraph.

I affirm in the Brotherhood of Humanity, much like many other do, including the theosophists and the people of Muhammed, Blessed Be His Name and Peace Be Upon Him. I treat all life, despite being created by a lower debased form of the Most High with respect and high regard. I love the world, just as much as the Most High does. I love fellow mankind and wish to help humanity to really shine, and to be free of ignorance. The world is a mess and life is harsh but by positive thoughts, good deeds and the grace of the Most High in assisting a few inspiried people can be make a great difference for the entire benefit of others and letting go of our self and dedicating my entire self to the Most High, and at the Most High's disposal. I know time, as you correctly said, is in short supply, but I am greatly satisfied to sacrifice myself for others. 2 years ago I was an idol worshipper and now I am filled over with compassion and always I seek to please the Most High, the true and highest form of the universal priniciple of 'God' and who you put as the Absolute Creater. What I do is not for myself. I follow the examples of the Holy Prophets, theosophers and the philosophers. These people are the measured wot whom I compare myself to them. I am certain that especally Yeshua (Jesus) is pleased with what I do. A Muslim asked me what are my three most important things and I said to him; "God Most High, Philosophy and Others".

And Life is Victorius (Mandaean Phrase)

Andre

[ChristianMyst]

Firstly I will have to say that you were not very clear in your posting and I would recommend that in future posts that you make simple your sentences, and most importantly get straight to the point to avoid confusion on my behalf.

Andre, I couldn’t disagree more. First, the post was clear as the wording and color add the nuance necessary to understand [my] meaning. The sizing was in actuality quite small, at least half the size of your reply. So, the gander and the goose should find little issue on these grounds. Regardless, those are simply structural disagreements.

The purpose of richly composed prose is to capture more exactly the communication that was [meant,] thus overcoming the inherent deficiencies in the human languages. In a person-to-person communiqué, the mannerisms and techniques, pausing and delivery we all have perfected accomplish this. In the written word, embellishment warranted for subjects of deeper meaning. Nonetheless, redaction may very well be reasonable to you or another reader [if] they are only going to glean those words, phrases or contexts that match their more limited perspectives. This latter rationalization, however, would not be the purpose of communication.

I do not indeed or willing set out 'to set myself above all things or to center myself at the core of the Creator, the Universe and the Meanining of Life'.

And such would be a self-limiting choice. If you perceive your deity to require worship and demonstration of His obvious supremacy, to the extent you cannot live the gift of life given to you to the extent that exemplifies the infinite wisdom of your creation and acknowledges a design for your higher purpose, then where would be the [intelligence] behind your creation? You could be an obedient dog or loyal horse, a prolific form of plant life, or an everlasting underground boulder of granite if your self-awareness hasn’t brought you to an innate wakefulness that compels you to follow the Devine Design of the Creator and raise your own Consciousness in recognition of the omnipresent template of, “as above, so below.”

Lets look at the logic, I as being created cannont be greater or even be at the centre of that which created me or in the centre of the one whom is the Absolute (the one above the creater diety).

You may not understand [how] at this moment, but you can be of Absolute significance for the Unknowable did not create a divine puzzle for comparing apples and oranges. You are Human Consciousness, He is incomprehensible forever. God is [not] Man. You can and will discover eventually that [the Creation] is a physical construction (outside of God) within which you can achieve supremacy in that context. This is your exaltedness, and it is an intended responsibility of accepting your quintessential contribution to the continued existence of the physical Universe, and the unmanifested All. You are yourself a “creator” and the harbinger of life.

In reality, it is the Absolute whom I invite to become the centre of my very being, and my spiritual essence (that is I invite into my temple, my spirit, the highest, most pure, most righteousness Absolute, the highest form of the God Most High) and by spiritual gifts given to me by the Absolute, and the Ultimate Spiritual being I can begin to have 'things' collect around me, but it is not I who becomes the centre of everything, but since the Absolute, the Ultimate, the Most High is invited into my centre, and everything and my being are centered around the Absolute.

Whatever. I think you got caught up in the spiral of that paragraph, but I think I am catching your drift. Why does God Most High need so many bodies, over eternity to be the center of? If His ideation is for so miraculous a living Universe, rocks and plants, and consummate being as is Man, to which He then gives free will, consciousness and in the case of the latter, a mind for self-awareness, don’t you think he intends you to use those gifts to attain ultimate results of consciousness and awareness?

All this is accomplished through the [spark] of the Divine in you and all things, and essence that is [not] him, but of his reflections, …such Trinity imbuing you with life force that is a moving, learning, perpetually upward spiraling of experiential existence. The pattern is manifest in all things. Man will, as always, follow the patterns of life before him and continually “unfold” to discover an ever-growing awareness of the Divine spark already within him. You have much to appreciate and celebrate about yourself, and in so doing your greater self-awareness will continue to propel you ever deeper into your own Divine being. You are, and always will be the extent of what you have accomplished over all time. Such is true for all things, by the way. The ALL is the Absolute’s idea, and you cannot exceed that. But, you can rise to your apportioned significance; your own exaltedness.

Love and Compassion of true Christianity (that is the faith in its most simple and primitive form-i.e the form after the time of Yeshua's ( Blessed be His Name and Peace Be Upon Him) apparent death up to the 3/5 centuries AD). I am docetic.

In Christianity, Docetism is the belief that Jesus' physical body was an illusion, as was his crucifixion. If this is what you believe, then such is fine. I do not understand your unnecessary insertion of ‘faith’ into belief system, however. It neither contributes or explains.

I hope that the largest paragraph will help you understand that love and compassion is not indeed found amongst the few. We all have the ability to do the same as I had spoke of in the largest paragraph.

Not really. I understand that love and compassion is a consequential result of living your live(s) as [fully] as they were successively intended; love and compassion being an inevitable outcome of a necessary greater consciousness.

I affirm in the Brotherhood of Humanity, much like many other do, including the theosophists and the people of Muhammed, Blessed Be His Name and Peace Be Upon Him. I treat all life, despite being created by a lower debased form of the Most High with respect and high regard.

Debased? The Trinity are His several reflections.

I love the world, just as much as the Most High does.

Illogical. The love of the Most High is and must always be thoroughly incomprehensible to you. The light of it may guide you, but your harbour will always be out at sea.

I love fellow mankind and wish to help humanity to really shine, and to be free of ignorance.

This is wonderful. This would be a most prescient moment to begin.

The world is a mess and life is harsh but by positive thoughts, good deeds and the grace of the Most High in assisting a few inspiried people can be make a great difference for the entire benefit of others and letting go of our self and dedicating my entire self to the Most High, and at the Most High's disposal.

The grace of the Most High has already occurred. All the rest is up to you, … you specifically. And, it is equally so for all. Although, it seems the end is more quickly attained by focusing on your own imperfection than the Most High’s perfection. Mankind’s reverence for the Absolute will never, nor can it ever, diminish. The ordained cycle of your consciousness’ development makes this ever so.

I know time, as you correctly said, is in short supply, but I am greatly satisfied to sacrifice myself for others.

Time is not in short supply. It is ever-renewing. I used an implied limitation to underscore your perceptions not mine.

2 years ago I was an idol worshipper and now I am filled over with compassion and always I seek to please the Most High, the true and highest form of the universal priniciple of 'God' and who you put as the Absolute Creater. What I do is not for myself.

Old habits seem hard to break.

I follow the examples of the Holy Prophets, theosophers and the philosophers. These people are the measured wot whom I compare myself to them. I am certain that especally Yeshua (Jesus) is pleased with what I do. A Muslim asked me what are my three most important things and I said to him; "God Most High, Philosophy and Others".

I gather the Muslim was simply incidental to the story? Did you mean “These people are the measure by whom I compare myself?” There is consciousness beyond the human body and form that is very likely your greater beacon. You will find in time, I suspect, that there is no meaningful measure when you have truly accomplished much. “All this and more you shall be.”

ChristianMyst

[Manichaean Seek]

ChristianMyst,

Thank you for a most interesting opening paragraph. You had confused me again. I did manage, at first to overcome my slumber towards the end of the first paragraph. I did come to understand what you were saying.

I rather be limited and humble then to jump into insanity by going beyong extremes. As a Manichaean laymen it is really not for me, not to mention I spent more time looking for the meanings of the words you had used in your posting then I did thinking how to answer your posting. I perfer to be a dog, horse, a form of plant life or a boulder of granite then to stick my head into things that I do not understand, to do so is illogical, since in doing so I would be commiting myself to something that is far beyond that which I can already handle.

I am no creator, but in a way I create when I write, draw or make something of my own hands. I have no plans to have children.

What did you mean by when you commented " I used an amplied limitiation to underscore your perceptions not mine"?

What did you mean by "Old habits die hard"? Idol worship is easy and can be done without confusion, confusion is terrible. I spent the rest of the day utill typing this message thinking on your posting. Where is the logic in confusing me and now I need to get plenty of sleep, and tommorrow and I will lose knowledge of the confusing posting you issued forth!

I will tell you that I am only 20 years of age and have not the ability to apprehend great things which are beyond my understanding. What you can be compared to if I was to give my youner brother (at the age of 10) a book on the philosophy of religion. I should be given what is mine, I give to my youner brother what is his and retain what you have to yourself; that way neither will I or my youner brother be rendered confused.

For my healths sake, please do not reply with a posting much like your last one, or it be ignored. There are many things that have to be done in the name of easy understanding and somethings are never best done.

Andre