Theologians

[Seeker_of_truth]

Originally Posted by imranshaykh

Thanks Mick:

Despite being a world religion and one which claims to be the fulfilment of the previous religions, why the Bahais concerned only about the state of Bahais? You should be equally concerned about atrocities against Muslims as well as Christians. I dont find the bahai web sites condeming these events.

The Bahais believe in the 12 Shiite Imams, right? Why dont they speak up against the atrocities against the Shiites in Iraq, Afghanistan, Lebanon etc etc.

They talk about the desecration of the Bahai House in Tehran. Why are they silent about the bombing of the Shrines of the 10th and 11th Imam in Samarrah? Or of the bombings of the shrines in Karbala and Najaf - all of which are shrines of the Imams which Bab and Bahaullah believed in.

In all such cases, or for that matter, about the state of the Palestinians and more recently of Lebanon.

I could simply cut and paste the last para which you have written and turn it over to you.

My web site as I have mentioned is about belief and concepts. Not martyrs. Belief requires questioning. And answers. Some of which may not be palatable. Some to me. Some to you.

Warm regards, as always
Imran

Every ninteen days at Feast, the Baha'is recieve a letter from the Universal House of Justice, the letter speaks of the atrocities towards people of all faiths either directly or indirectly.

[Seeker_of_truth]

Originally Posted by imranshaykh

Thanks Mick:

Despite being a world religion and one which claims to be the fulfilment of the previous religions, why the Bahais concerned only about the state of Bahais? You should be equally concerned about atrocities against Muslims as well as Christians. I dont find the bahai web sites condeming these events.

The Bahais believe in the 12 Shiite Imams, right? Why dont they speak up against the atrocities against the Shiites in Iraq, Afghanistan, Lebanon etc etc.

They talk about the desecration of the Bahai House in Tehran. Why are they silent about the bombing of the Shrines of the 10th and 11th Imam in Samarrah? Or of the bombings of the shrines in Karbala and Najaf - all of which are shrines of the Imams which Bab and Bahaullah believed in.

In all such cases, or for that matter, about the state of the Palestinians and more recently of Lebanon.

I could simply cut and paste the last para which you have written and turn it over to you.

My web site as I have mentioned is about belief and concepts. Not martyrs. Belief requires questioning. And answers. Some of which may not be palatable. Some to me. Some to you.

Warm regards, as always
Imran

Every 19 days Baha'is around the world get a letter from the Universal House of Justice. The letter mentions about the atrocities against peoples of all faiths, either directly or indirectly.

[Postmaster]

The reason is because Baha'is withdraw from political association. You can't change the bad part of politics unless you get involved, didn't Bahaullah realise this? Maybe it was a tactic for the survival of the faith. It's unfortunate because Baha'is would have made good political activists. Not helping the victims of politics is like saying the vicitms are to blame and takes away the beauty of social equality that is found in other religions.

[arthra]

Originally Posted by Postmaster

The reason is because Baha'is withdraw from political association. You can't change the bad part of politics unless you get involved, didn't Bahaullah realise this? Maybe it was a tactic for the survival of the faith. It's unfortunate because Baha'is would have made good political activists. Not helping the victims of politics is like saying the vicitms are to blame and takes away the beauty of social equality that is found in other religions.

Hello Postmaster!

Thanks for your post. I gather you feel that Baha'is should be involved in partisan politics... this is an area that divides many people today and is a source of rancour and antipathy that is well known. We Baha'is have adopted the principle of non-involvement where it comes to partisan politics...

Serving in government and aiding people however is something Bhaa'is can do as long as it isn't partisan. We have had a few Baha'i judges and some have served on government commissions to address issues of poverty, crime and other pressing issues in society so we are not blind to the needs of people. Also there are numerous educational and social developement projects that Baha'is are involved in around the world.

- Art

[Postmaster]

Nah I really can't agree. Politics is the glue of society only divided on issues.

[arthra]

Originally Posted by Postmaster

Nah I really can't agree. Politics is the glue of society only divided on issues.

I'm not sure what you disagree with but you are of course entitled to do what if you wish. All I can do here is try to explain our principle of non-involvement in partisan politics.

Actually in the United States religious organizations can lose their tax exempt status if they become too partisan so the principle isn't really unknown.

It's just that for us Baha'is we are not to belong to partisan political entities. So when I register to vote I am always non-partisan. I may vote anyway I please in the secrecy of the ballot of course.

- Art

[Postmaster]

I just can't understand why Baha’is can’t be partisan when countries run on them, it's been like that since Mesopotamia.

It's like some religious people choose not to have children and lead a celibate life. But they are withdrawing from gods will and obligation in doing so. Mystics usually prefer celibacy, preferred to prophetic vision and progress.

[arthra]

Originally Posted by Postmaster

I just can't understand why Baha’is can’t be partisan when countries run on them, it's been like that since Mesopotamia.

It's like some religious people choose not to have children and lead a celibate life. But they are withdrawing from gods will and obligation in doing so. Mystics usually prefer celibacy, preferred to prophetic vision and progress.

One of the basic reasons Postmaster that you should know is that partisanship divides people into polarized groups and what the Baha'i Faith is about is uniting them not causing more divisions.

There are ways to meet peoples needs today without political partisanship and confrontations. The bitterness of partisanship divides families and can also cause religious groups to split. Baha'is have found ways to work together in peace so why wish partisanship on us?

- Art

[arthra]

Irman asked above:

Despite being a world religion and one which claims to be the fulfilment of the previous religions, why the Bahais concerned only about the state of Bahais? You should be equally concerned about atrocities against Muslims as well as Christians. I dont find the bahai web sites condeming these events.

My reply:

I think it's interesting Imran that you of all people should ask this since you live in country that has been oppressing Baha'is... for a long time now. Will you call attention to the plight of Baha'is in Iran? I think not. Only Baha'is have been doing this because we are a minority in the Middle East and are considered "illegal" in your own country!

Can Baha'is practise their faith in Iran and have Baha'i marriages? and go on pilgrimages to Baha'i Holy Places there?

First return our properties and provide restitution. Abide by the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights and work for the rights of your own citizens is my advice.

- Art

[Postmaster]

There are ways to meet peoples needs today without political partisanship and confrontations. The bitterness of partisanship divides families and can also cause religious groups to split. Baha'is have found ways to work together in peace so why wish partisanship on us?

If you were to create a Baha'i political party then maybe you can do things differently. I think that Baha'is could be missing out on alot of important and needed influence of society by staying clear from partisan. Baha'u'llah was born in a time of oppressive Persian and Ottoman rule but today especially in the west we live in an effective democratic and secular system. We even have environment friendly parties. If there can never be a Baha'i president then were just going to be going round in vicious circles.

[Postmaster]

Then again the freesmansons who played a big influence on american politics from 1600s to 1800s. Already had Baha'i ideas in politics.

The Masons, like so many false religions, hold as a core belief one of Satan's biggest lies. That being that all faiths and all scriptures lead to the same God. Freemasonry teaches that there is one God and men of all religions worship that one God using a variety of different names. In a Masonic Lodge, all join in corporate prayer to the Great Architect of the Universe, (GAOTU) and embrace the scripture of any and all religions.

Can't blame Irman for his conspiracy views. The only problem here is, if i was to bleieve a conspirac view it would be from the Christian side and not the Islamic one. Which shows that maybe us asuming the same thinking is a human thing and brings back the idea that all relgions and views are of the same source.

[arthra]

Originally Posted by Postmaster

If you were to create a Baha'i political party then maybe you can do things differently. I think that Baha'is could be missing out on alot of important and needed influence of society by staying clear from partisan. Baha'u'llah was born in a time of oppressive Persian and Ottoman rule but today especially in the west we live in an effective democratic and secular system. We even have environment friendly parties. If there can never be a Baha'i president then were just going to be going round in vicious circles.

We Baha'is see it this way...the politcal parties anbd governments will build what we calll the "lesser peace"... this was foreseeen many years ago, so we do not have to be involved in shortsighted partisan political projects or be exploited by politicians for their whims...

There are some religious groups that form their ownpolitical parties but you will never have Baha'is doing that... Thanks for the advice but we already have a long term strategy and it seems to be working...

You see we Baha'is have a long range view that goes beyond the next election...

What you may also be overlooking is that for Baha'is our laws and principles are not just for the few years they were revealed or even conditioned by the social conditions of the time, but have a long range perspective that is over centuries of time and leading to the buildingthe foundatiosn of a world civilization and commonwealth.... The blue prints are already on the table for anyone to see.

.............................................

As to Masonic lodges Baha'is are not permitted to join secret organizations of any kind. We stress loyalty to duly constituted authorities rather than rebellion and subterfuge.... The oppression of people for their beliefs is inexcuseable and violates their basic human rights granted by the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

- Art

[imranshaykh]

Originally Posted by Seeker_of_truth

Every 19 days Baha'is around the world get a letter from the Universal House of Justice. The letter mentions about the atrocities against peoples of all faiths, either directly or indirectly.

good. very good. then one should raise the issue of the Iranian Bahai there only. Why do it selectively?

Regards
Imran

[Postmaster]

Is doing something out of followship wrong?

[BruceDLimber]

Hi again!

Originally Posted by Postmaster

If you were to create a Baha'i political party then maybe you can do things differently.

Meaning no offense, but this seems to indicate you have very little famliarity with the Baha'i Faith and our standards/values.

Partisan politics--and the associated political parties--not only don't match the Baha'i Faith and its teachings, but can argurably be considered anathema to them!

Please bear in mind that our primary stress is unity: of God, of humanity, and of religions generally.

And partisam poltics is quite the opposite of this--a divide-and-conquer process that destroys rather than promotes unity!

This is why Baha'is not only avoid partisan politics like the plague but are forbidden from joining political parties!

So the idea of a "Baha'i political party" is as much an oxymoron as a "peaceful war."

(Indeed, I'm reminded of a talk by a famous Baha'i who spoke of "humble murderers, reverent backbiters, and friendly thieves."

Peace,

Bruce