The state of the dead....

[juantoo3]

The state of the dead? Montana in winter gets my vote.

[mee]

the state of the dead ...... not aware of any thing at all . the living are aware that they will die, but the dead are not aware of anything at all. they are dead .

just as the bible teaches us, yes the bible is most helpful in knowing the truth.

(Ecclesiastes 9:5) For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten.


(Ecclesiastes 9:10) All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in She′ol, the place to which you are going.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by mee

the state of the dead ...... not aware of any thing at all . the living are aware that they will die, but the dead are not aware of anything at all. they are dead .

just as the bible teaches us, yes the bible is most helpful in knowing the truth.

(Ecclesiastes 9:5) For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten.


(Ecclesiastes 9:10) All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in She′ol, the place to which you are going.

Ecclesiates was a lament from Solomon who'd waned from his faith in God. It was also written before the coming of Jesus, who inturn destroyed death. When Jesus went into hades to preach to the souls there, they were not asleep. Those waiting for the promised coming of the Lord were redeemed and went to Heaven.

Indeed Mee, if the "kingdom of heaven" is at hand, now, here, then there is no time between death and being united with Christ. The "ressurection" is for the physical bodies of those who have passed over, and the transformation is for those who have yet to die when the new beginning is here.

[Azure24]

God's Kingdom is not at hand (at least there is no proof) and the dead do not go to heaven they just die until the time of judgment (evident in the Bible).

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Azure24

God's Kingdom is not at hand (at least there is no proof) and the dead do not go to heaven they just die until the time of judgment (evident in the Bible).

That idea conflicts with what Jesus said to the thief on the cross next to Him...He said, "On this day, you will be with me in Paradise" (para). Now, can that be explained?

v/r

Q

[mee]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Jesus, who inturn destroyed death.

Jesus plays a very big part in Gods purpose for the earth, and one of those things is to swallow up death for ever. At the momment all humans are in a dieing state ,we all grow old and eventually die . romans 5;12




but as the bible informs us death will be swallowed up forever . 1 corinthians 15;21-28



21 For since death is through a man,(ADAM) resurrection of the dead is also through a man. (JESUS)22 For just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each one in his own rank: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who belong to the Christ during his presence. 24 Next, the end, when he hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power. 25 For he must rule as king until [God] has put all enemies under his feet. 26 As the last enemy, death is to be brought to nothing. 27 For [God] “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that it is with the exception of the one who subjected all things to him. 28 But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone.




YES OUR ENEMY IS DEATH ,BUT IT WILL BE DONE AWAY WITH.


And death and Ha′des were hurled into the lake of fire. This means the second death, the lake of fire..... revelation 20;14




He will actually swallow up death forever, and the Sovereign Lord Jehovah will certainly wipe the tears from all faces. And the reproach of his people he will take away from all the earth, for Jehovah himself has spoken [it].ISAIAH 25;8



Yes, we can confidently look to the future when Jehovah God, the Giver of life, will bury death forever. What a blessing it will be when we can rightly ask: “Death, where is your victory? Death, where is your sting?”—1 Corinthians 15:55.

[mee]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

That idea conflicts with what Jesus said to the thief on the cross next to Him...He said, "On this day, you will be with me in Paradise" (para). Now, can that be explained?

v/r

Q

Jesus replied: “Truly I tell you today, You will be with me in Paradise.”—Luke 23:39-43.


Jesus had a marvelous hope set before him. The apostle Paul noted the effect that this hope had upon Jesus, observing: “For the joy that was set before him he endured a torture stake, despising shame.”—Hebrews 12:2.

Included in “the joy” set before Jesus was living with his Father again in heaven and eventually serving as Ruler of God’s Kingdom. Moreover, he would also have the joy of welcoming into heaven proven and trusted followers of his that would rule with him as kings over the earth. (John 14:2, 3; Philippians 2:7-11; Revelation 20:5, 6) What, then, did Jesus mean when he promised the repentant evildoer that he would be in Paradise?



That man did not qualify to rule with Jesus in heaven. He is not included among those to whom Jesus said: “You are the ones that have stuck with me in my trials; and I make a covenant with you, just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom.” (Luke 22:28, 29) Yet, Jesus promised that the evildoer would be in Paradise with him. How will that promise be fulfilled?


By means of Christ’s heavenly rule, God’s original purpose for the entire earth to be a paradise will be fulfilled!


During this Kingdom rule, Jesus will fulfill his promise to the criminal who died alongside him. He will resurrect him, and that man will become an earthly subject of Jesus. Then the evildoer will be given an opportunity to meet God’s requirements and live forever under the rule of the Kingdom. Surely we can rejoice in the Bible-based prospect of living forever in Paradise on earth!


Psalm 37:29; Revelation 21:3, 4....... MATTHEW 5;5

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by mee

Jesus replied: “Truly I tell you today, You will be with me in Paradise.”—Luke 23:39-43.


Jesus had a marvelous hope set before him. The apostle Paul noted the effect that this hope had upon Jesus, observing: “For the joy that was set before him he endured a torture stake, despising shame.”—Hebrews 12:2.

Included in “the joy” set before Jesus was living with his Father again in heaven and eventually serving as Ruler of God’s Kingdom. Moreover, he would also have the joy of welcoming into heaven proven and trusted followers of his that would rule with him as kings over the earth. (John 14:2, 3; Philippians 2:7-11; Revelation 20:5, 6) What, then, did Jesus mean when he promised the repentant evildoer that he would be in Paradise?



That man did not qualify to rule with Jesus in heaven. He is not included among those to whom Jesus said: “You are the ones that have stuck with me in my trials; and I make a covenant with you, just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom.” (Luke 22:28, 29) Yet, Jesus promised that the evildoer would be in Paradise with him. How will that promise be fulfilled?


By means of Christ’s heavenly rule, God’s original purpose for the entire earth to be a paradise will be fulfilled!


During this Kingdom rule, Jesus will fulfill his promise to the criminal who died alongside him. He will resurrect him, and that man will become an earthly subject of Jesus. Then the evildoer will be given an opportunity to meet God’s requirements and live forever under the rule of the Kingdom. Surely we can rejoice in the Bible-based prospect of living forever in Paradise on earth!


Psalm 37:29; Revelation 21:3, 4....... MATTHEW 5;5

Jesus did not have hope. He had inate knowledge. He didn't tell his followers to have faith and hope. He said "know this"...

[mee]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Jesus did not have hope. He had inate knowledge. He didn't tell his followers to have faith and hope. He said "know this"...

as we look intently at the Chief Agent and Perfecter of our faith, Jesus. For the joy that was set before him he endured a torture stake, despising shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. hebrews 12;2


(Psalm 110:1) The utterance of Jehovah to my Lord is: “Sit at my right hand Until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.”



(Hebrews 10:12) But this [man] offered one sacrifice for sins perpetually and sat down at the right hand of God,




(Matthew 22:44) ‘Jehovah said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies beneath your feet”’?



(Acts 2:35) until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.”’



(1 Corinthians 15:25) For he must rule as king until [God] has put all enemies under his feet.



(Hebrews 1:13) But with reference to which one of the angels has he ever said: “Sit at my right hand, until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet”?



(Hebrews 10:13) from then on awaiting until his enemies should be placed as a stool for his feet.




As for faith and hope

Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld. HEBREW 11;1


they go hand in hand



(Romans 8:24) For we were saved in [this] hope; but hope that is seen is not hope, for when a man sees a thing, does he hope for it?



(2 Corinthians 4:18) while we keep our eyes, not on the things seen, but on the things unseen. For the things seen are temporary, but the things unseen are everlasting.



(2 Corinthians 5:7) for we are walking by faith, not by sight.




Jehovah God has provided his Word the Bible with its instruction and examples, so that all men may have hope. (Ro 15:4; 1Co 10:11; 2Ti 3:16, 17) This hope has to be proclaimed to others by those possessing it; in so doing, the possessor of hope saves himself and those who listen to him.—1Pe 3:15; 1Ti 4:16.

[Dor]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

That idea conflicts with what Jesus said to the thief on the cross next to Him...He said, "On this day, you will be with me in Paradise" (para). Now, can that be explained?

v/r

Q

*cheers Q* Yep it can be explained in one way that some people go to Heaven when they die.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by Dor

*cheers Q* Yep it can be explained in one way that some people go to Heaven when they die.

Ok, but I fail to see that number being limited to only 144,000 persons. And it further states that all will face judgment before the throne in heaven (not on earth), So logically all persons would at one time or another enter heaven, even if only to be banished away later. I do not believe God plays the lottery with people. Who accept Him, He accepts. Who rejects Him, He rejects. That seems to be the main theme of the Bible throughout. All we need is faith, and a willingness to act on that faith.

v/r

Q

[mee]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

Ok, but I fail to see that number being limited to only 144,000 persons. And it further states that all will face judgment before the throne in heaven (not on earth), So logically all persons would at one time or another enter heaven, even if only to be banished away later. I do not believe God plays the lottery with people. Who accept Him, He accepts. Who rejects Him, He rejects. That seems to be the main theme of the Bible throughout. All we need is faith, and a willingness to act on that faith.

v/r

Q

At Revelation 7:9, the great crowd is not seen as being in heaven. Their “standing before the throne” of God does not require them to be in heaven. They are simply in the sight of God.


Jehovah is in his holy temple.
Jehovah—in the heavens is his throne.
His own eyes behold, his own beaming eyes examine the sons of men.
(Psalm 11:4)

[mee]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

That idea conflicts with what Jesus said to the thief on the cross next to Him...He said, "On this day, you will be with me in Paradise" (para). Now, can that be explained?

v/r

Q

Jesus replied: “Truly I tell you today, You will be with me in Paradise.”—Luke 23:39-43.
yes this word paradise was refering to a garden of eden like paradise, an earthly one . and that person next to Jesus will have a resurrection into the paradise earth in the future.



According to the Bible, no human, including the apostles, could be accepted for heavenly life until Jesus had been sacrificed, had gone to heaven and opened or “inaugurated” the way into heaven. (Heb. 10:12, 19, 20; 1 Cor. 15:20, 23) Accordingly, it was not until Pentecost of 33 C.E., 10 days after Jesus’ ascension to heaven, that holy spirit was first poured out so that the disciples were “born again,” a prerequisite to going to heaven. (John 3:3, 5; Acts 1:3-9; 2:1-4) The evildoer impaled beside Christ had died over a month before, so he was not “born again.” Logically he could not have been called to the heavenly kingdom any more than was John the Baptizer, who also died before Christ offered the sacrificial basis for heavenly life.—Matt. 11:11.


Note that Jesus did not ascend to heaven the day he died or even the day he was resurrected. Shortly after his resurrection he told Mary: “I have not yet ascended to the Father.” This also has a bearing on the question as to when what Jesus said to the evildoer applies.—John 20:17.

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by mee

Jesus replied: “Truly I tell you today, You will be with me in Paradise.”—Luke 23:39-43.
yes this word paradise was refering to a garden of eden like paradise, an earthly one . and that person next to Jesus will have a resurrection into the paradise earth in the future.



According to the Bible, no human, including the apostles, could be accepted for heavenly life until Jesus had been sacrificed, had gone to heaven and opened or “inaugurated” the way into heaven. (Heb. 10:12, 19, 20; 1 Cor. 15:20, 23) Accordingly, it was not until Pentecost of 33 C.E., 10 days after Jesus’ ascension to heaven, that holy spirit was first poured out so that the disciples were “born again,” a prerequisite to going to heaven. (John 3:3, 5; Acts 1:3-9; 2:1-4) The evildoer impaled beside Christ had died over a month before, so he was not “born again.” Logically he could not have been called to the heavenly kingdom any more than was John the Baptizer, who also died before Christ offered the sacrificial basis for heavenly life.—Matt. 11:11.


Note that Jesus did not ascend to heaven the day he died or even the day he was resurrected. Shortly after his resurrection he told Mary: “I have not yet ascended to the Father.” This also has a bearing on the question as to when what Jesus said to the evildoer applies.—John 20:17.

No it did not. Jesus mentions nothing about the Garden of Eden like paradise. He said, "on this day, you will be with ME, in Paradise." Likewise, John the Baptist was re-assured in his hour of doubt that Jesus was the one...and he died with salvation before him.

Jesus died, decended into hell/hades/sheol, and on the third day rose again, according to the scriptures. What happened in between, we do not know. Just because He didn't meet the Father, doesn't mean those slated didn't get into heaven. Enter the kingdom, granted, need permission to come before the throne...

Lol, I can enter Windsor castle in London. But I need a permission for audience from the Queen, before I can enter her antechambers...

Look at it from a modern day hero movie. Jesus takes the believing sinner to heaven and says "don't move, I'll be back for you", then plunges into hell to rescue the rest of the believers, comes back to heaven and says, "Don't move, I got to secure a foot hold on earth, then I'll be back for you". So He comes back to earth, sets up command center, makes sure it's running with competent people, then says, "keep the fort". and heads north to the rest of his sheep he has to introduce to the Father...

In the mean time, every time someone in the faith of God dies, they head straight to heaven, to be introduced to the Father.

For some reason, there is a link between corporial bodies and spirit, but in the end the two will be re-joined and made new. But in the mean time, the spirit is not asleep while time passes, but is in the presence of the Creator. I didn't say the Father, I said the Creator (Jesus).

[mee]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

No it did not. Jesus mentions nothing about the Garden of Eden like paradise. He said, "on this day, you will be with ME, in Paradise."

according to the Bible, they went to the place called in Greek Ha′des and in Hebrew She′ol, both of which refer to the common grave of mankind. (Luke 18:31-33; 24:46; Acts 2:31) Of those in that place, the Bible says: “As for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all . . . There is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in She′ol [Greek, Ha′des], the place to which you are going.” Hardly a paradise!—Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10



but the reason Jesus spoke of a paradise ,was because Jesus knew that at a future time, that one on the stake next to him
would be in an earthly paradise when the resurrection from the memorial tombs started
JOHN 5;28-29