The semantics of religious experience

[Thomas]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

Man being man it could not be otherwise.

So by nature man is a helpless liar? No man can tell the truth?

Thomas

[Tao_Equus]

Originally Posted by Thomas

So by nature man is a helpless liar? No man can tell the truth?

Thomas

Certainly not those seeking power over others.

[Thomas]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

Certainly not those seeking power over others.

What about those giving power?

Thomas

[Tao_Equus]

Originally Posted by Thomas

What about those giving power?

Thomas

When has such a thing ever happened? The powerful take power. The mechanics of that can be complex and create the illusion of some level of democracy but that is all it is, illusion.

Look at the internal election of Gordon Brown to lead the Labour Party. There was no democracy there. Within any body seeking power there are factions and the members divide themselves according to who they want or who they think will most be helpful to their individual agendas. The cleverest most influential and powerful rise to the top by a combination of patronage, acquiescence and bribery. The rest of us get to vote on what is already a rigged game. Nice people don't seek power.

Tao

[wil]

Originally Posted by Thomas

Again, you imply that it's OK for anyone and everyone to invent Jesus according to their own inclination ... do you not see the danger of self-serving philosophy ... one of extreme — dare on say fundamentalist — relativism?

And a huge amount of scholarship has gone into identifying which is which. Has scholarship achieved nothing in the interveing years? Not necessarily conclusively, verse for verse, but nevertheless highlighting the strands ...

Now in reality, no generalization...I don't know any Catholic student, ie one who went to school 1-12 church every sunday, some wednesdays often on saturday...catechism the whole nine yards...not one read the bible...many never saw anything accept what the school gave them...So are you providing me the insight that the Catholic church only provided to their students the portions of the bible they felt relevant or true? That they are this scholarship you speak of??

Now we've got the red letter bibles...putting Jesus words in red so we can see them...and the Jesus Seminar who assigned them red, pink, grey, bold black so we could identify what Scholars thought were words actually said by Jesus and what was attributed...

Oh how I would love the bible that does the same with the entire text...Black we believe to be factual, Purple metaphor, allegory, parable, myth, Blue dates are wrong, Green -exaggeration for affect, Yellow - added later, Orange borrowed from other culture/religion....etc...

You speak of fabrications...as I understand it the entire book of Jonah was an Op-Ed piece of the time, speaking derisively of the current leadership...much like Gullivers Travels....does that mean I feel the need to toss it out of the bible or that I can't learn something from it?? NO, but I surely don't think it should be taught as factual...and tell little kids when they ask about fish stomach acids...well all things are possible with G-d...to me that is exactly what causes so many folks to toss the whole religious experience....and why religion has its issues today.

[Thomas]

Originally Posted by Tao_Equus

When has such a thing ever happened?

Then I must declare myself an optimist.

I believe that God man man are both, in essence, good.
I do believe however, that man is fallible, and God is not.

And I do believe in good people — one is enough to prove the point.

Thomas

[flowperson]

Lots of good people posting on CR, huh?

flow....

[Thomas]

Hi Wil —

Again, I'd say you're taking an extreme position, and one that is not what Catholicism believes, or teaches — and in fact refutes.

If you have time check out 'The Interpretation of the Bible in the Church"
otherwise I suggest you're way off the mark when it comes to Catholic interpretation of Scripture.

Thomas