The Rise and Fall of the Matriarchs/Patriarchs?

[foundationist.org]

Before I start rooting through notes, books, and reference works, there is a general movement in believing that during the palaeolithic period at least, societies in Euro-Asia tended towards matriarchal systems - the Divine was considered female, and rulership was conveyed through the female line.

However, at some point in the neolithic world, male-orientated divinity began to take an equal footing, eventually supplanting the original matriarchal system of things by the dispersal and acceptance of both Christian and Islamic systems of thinking, where woman was at least theoretically reduced to a mere bond servant and property (though actually a mere extension of prevailing beliefs at their formation).

"The Ancient City" by Numa Denis Fustel De Coulanges is an excellent work that seems focussed upon the development of the gods of hearth (known as the manes or lares in the Roman world) and how they dominated the early Roman, Greek, and even Hindu societies, apparently from an earlier Indo-European belief source.

What the book does not state, but potentially infers, is that the male gods of polytheistic traditions were possibly actually embodiments of tribal chiefs and elders, who somehow became worshipped by an entire social group, rather than simply one family. Of course, the distinction may blur, as the above books relates with the diversification of the Roman gens, and of course social groups would often have strong blood-ties among themselves. In fact, whole villages could have grown to worship one divine figure, amalgamated from various ancestors worshipped and increasingly imbued with supernatural and symbolic properties.

As different embryonic societies expanded, even small-scale, it appears that they may have enforced their own ancestor worship upon conquered peoples, thus disseminating what was once a worship of the hearth into ever increasingly anthropomorphised and symbolically imbued male figure. The assimilation of other social groups (ie, the Tarquins and Etruscans by the Romans) no doubt led to the expansion of single figure religious pantheons into ever evolving polytheistic hierarchies - with the original hearth figure taking dominance over others (ie, Zeus of the Greeks and Jupiter Maximus of the Romans).

In which case where would the female deities have come in?

As females were not worshipped at the family hearth in the Graeco-Roman and Hindu traditions, then it is quite possible that female divinities in polytheistic traditions are actually latent images, personified in evolving systems, of those original matriarchal figures (earth deities such as Cybele and Persephone especially come to mind).

As a last open question and consideration, the figure of the snake also appears to have been intimately connected with at least some matriarchal worships. In the "Mayan Prophecies", which is, to coin a phrase: "a bag o’ wank", the only section of interest contains a reprinted local study that claims that ancient earth-goddess worship fixated upon a certain species of snake, whose notable geometric patterning was claimed to be the basis of the development of religious iconography in nearby Meso-American cultures.

This contentious idea may be further considered in relation to the slaying of Python at Delphi by Apollo - a symbolic remnant describing the dominance of a young male cult over an older matriarchal one? This is also illuminating when considered with the story of Genesis, and considerations that the snake represented symbolically earlier Mesopotamian goddess worship that was being refuted and later eradicated by the evolving divinities centred upon the settlement of Shalem.

Anyway … see if anyone wants to take of these general ideas further.

[maya]

yeah women rule! :lips: :-*

[Dave the Web]

and peace on earth....except for once every month.

[foundationist]

Dave, you are sooo going to get slapped for that if you're not careful.

[Cloud Woman]

Women will inherit the earth, of course. But we first have to stop the boys playing with their toys. Or in a different way.We don't need so many guns in this world.

[Dave the Web]

In all seriousness the gender control issue is likely a myth. There is no gender monopoly on compassion. I just thought I'd say that.

[WHKeith]

When dealing with religious belief systems dating back to Mesolithic or even Paleolithic times, we are on VERY shaky ground when it comes to solid proof. However, according to Margaret Murray and others, the very widespread discovery of female fertility figures—the various “Venuses” depicting big-breasted, big-hipped, usually faceless women is evidence of an early, essentially matriarchal society worshipping a female fertility or Earth goddess. The rise of goddess worship is easy enough to understand in and of itself. Women are the source of new life. They nurture their young. They magically bleed once a month, in time to the Moon's phases. They produce new life in the same way Earth produces vegetation, and nurture new life in the same way Earth nurtures us.

Murray points to an episode she refers to as the onset of the “Kurgan Hordes” beginning about 3000 BCE, which brought an end to this peaceful and idyllic period. “Kurgan” is a type of burial mound associated archeologically with Scythian and other tribes from the southwest/south-central Asian steppes. The migrations she refers to seem to correspond to what is usually called the “proto-Indo-European migrations of that time. Things might not actually have been so clear-cut as Murray suggests, but it IS true that before 3000 BCE, towns and villages throughout eastern, central, and southern Europe were NOT walled, NOT fortified, and showed little interest in the martial spirit. Further, we do see solid evidence of ancient matriarchal religious/government systems in places like Crete and Malta, and an essentially egalitarian system among the Etruscans, all among the earliest European organized cultures. After 3000 BCE, we see walled towns, armies, evidence of large-scale slavery, kings and male lines of succession, and the appearance of masculine gods who generally establish their dominance myth logically through the subjugation and/or rape of existing female divinities. A second wave of invasions occurred around 1000 BCE, which resulted in a mini-dark age in Greece and elsewhere. These were the Indo-Europeans, who in Greece became known as the Dorians.

Each invasion brought its own gods, of course. We still see the echoes today. One example: The earliest Greek creation myths look at a divine marriage between Gaia, the Earth-mother, and Ouranos, the Sky-Father. They were superceded by their children, the Titans (the Achaean Greeks?), under the rulership of Kronos. The Titans in turn were overthrown by the Olympian deities (of the Dorians?), led by Zeus. That’s overly simplified, of course, but will give you the idea.

There is much evidence of said transition from matriarchy to patriarchy in the myths of most European/Asian cultures. Even in the Bible, one of the earliest fragments, dating to before 1200 BC, is the Song of Miriam, which is included in the Book of Exodus as the Song of Moses. It seems to make reference to an earlier line of proto-Semetic prophetesses and priestesses. Robert Graves goes so far as suggest that there was a 13th Hebrew tribe, the Tribe of Deborah, but that its existence was suppressed by later priests trying to centralize worship at the temple in Jerusalem. Fascinating, if true.

As for snakes . . . [sigh] Don’t get me started. They represented a VERY widespread cult throughout the Mediterranean, one that goes back very, VERY far. In Greece, petitioners in the Temple of Aesclepius (and sometimes Apollo) slept on a floor covered with hundreds of snakes. The snakes crawling over the subject brought healing and prophecy. The caduceus carried by Hermes and today representing the medical profession includes two intertwined snakes as an emblem of healing, which is descended from this tradition.

Snakes represent new life (hence their connection with women) because they shed their skin, the old becoming new. They also represent the cyclical nature of life, as in reincarnation. They were believed to be very wise—possibly because they crept around keeping their ear to the ground, as it were?—and thus were creatures of prophecy and divine inspiration. Genesis says “Now the serpent was the wisest of all creatures of the field . . .”, a reference to this wisdom. The Genesis story of the serpent in Eden is directly descended from a Sumerian creation myth that links the serpent with the Tree of Life.

We have statues showing Cretan goddess/priestess figures handling snakes, so it does appear that snakes were connected with some of the earliest fertility/Earth mother beliefs.

There is only circumstantial evidence for any of this, of course. However, I must voice my complete agreement with both Maya and Cloud Woman. Women rule!

[WHKeith]

BTW, I agree with you, Dave, that compassion is not gender-specific. Nor are all XXsholes male. But in terms of organizational strategy, it's interesting to note that female owned and operated businesses tend to emphasize cooperation and common cause within the ranks of the employed and with other businesses, while male controlled businesses (speaking in grave generalities here) talk about "crushing the competition," "dominating the market,"and similar martial phraseology.

Throughout history, it sure seems like all you need to do is give a guy a crown, and he immediately assumes son-of-the-gods status, raises an army, and marches off to conquer the world!

[brian]

Thanks for that, WHKeith - there's a lot of good information there.

The snakes part is something I immediately have to jump into.

First point is the legend of Apollo slaying the python at Delphi. Because of the symbolism involved, to me this story always seemed to be highly indicative of the supplanting of the old matriarchal way (represented by Python) by the new Patriarchal form (represented by Apollo). I'm a little rusty on the topic now, but I'm sure there was originally reference to one of the Greek gods - perhaps Apollo himself - having a tomb at Delphi with an actual body. It's relatively early this morning here in the UK, so I'll dig for resources later, but as I understand it, there's a very strong tradition about this body - I believe it disappears in the fourth century, when Constantine has it moved to his new capital of Constantinople, where the body promptly disappears from history.

A particular reason for my interest in this was because while tracking down Ancient Greek Myth parallels to the Christ tradition – searching for possible Hellenic influences that may have entered the New Testament – I saw Apollo as very much possibly representing another long-lost "Christ" tradition, which saw a multifarious expression, not least through the legends of Helios and Dionysios as well. I wondered if Constantine himself had actually recognised this, hence why he would dig up an ancient grave of Apollo and transfer the body to his new Christian capital (assuming it wasn't simply destroyed).

I've no idea how this would all stand up to further scrutiny, but I'll try and chase this topic up later.

Another point about snakes – in "The Mayan Prophecies" (which along with "Bloodline of the Grail" ranks as the most unscholarly piece of contrived BS I've ever had the misfortune to read – but that's another issue) – there was one actually very interesting section. Basically, they included from that work an extract from someone else's (with permission) – a local Indian who was writing about the origins of the snake tradition. Anyway, what I remembered most about this section is that one of the most venerated properties of the snake itself was actually the patterns you get on their back. Essentially, the snakes were seen as the first teachers because they embodied secret knowledge – not least of art and geometry - by way of their intricate patterns on their backs. And if you're following this here you should immediately be thinking of how that principle might translate into creation myth, as the patriarchs overcome the matriarchs – the Garden of Eden and Eve learning from the snake.

[Talia]

As a woman maybe I should point out that man by their biological nature are evolved and built to seek domination in social groups. Woman's role is sociologically passive (I learned that word today!) So a society run by women would have bitches and belles but would have less of an aggressive dynamic with not so much emphasis on forcing the inqeualities we see now.