The Return of an unfamiliar Jesus?

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by lunamoth

Hi Q, I see an ocean of meaning in that response. There's got to be a personality test in there somewhere: are you a Lawyer, an Inspector, or a Foreman?

cheers,
luna

Well, let's see. My Pop is the "Attorney at Law", (I've got the BS in Criminal Justice, not to be mistaken for having "BS" in general ), I was the "foreman" of the Repair Division in my various shops, and now I'm the "inspector" that comes to call at the most inopportune moments...guess that covers all bases.

v/r

Q

[mee]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

God already has control over all the governments of the earth. He after all allows them to be in existence (according to the Bible). In fact, "Jehovah" turned over creation of the whole universe to the "Word" in the very beginning. Jehovah did not create Life, Logos did. Genesis and John make that quite clear.

v/r

Q

We know we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the [power of the] wicked one ....1 John 5;19 the wicked one is satan the devil and he is in opposition to Jehovah God ,and as you say Jehovah is allowing satan to rule us at the momment . but not for much longer .
(Matthew 13:19) Where anyone hears the word of the kingdom but does not get the sense of it, the wicked one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart; this is the one sown alongside the road.

(Luke 4:6) and the Devil said to him: "I will give you all this authority and the glory of them, because it has been delivered to me, and to whomever I wish I give it.

(John 12:31) Now there is a judging of this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out.

(Hebrews 2:14) Therefore, since the "young children" are sharers of blood and flesh, he also similarly partook of the same things, that through his death he might bring to nothing the one having the means to cause death, that is, the Devil;
1 John 5 ;20But we know that the Son of God has come, and he has given us intellectual capacity that we may gain the knowledge of the true one. And we are in union with the true one, by means of his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and life everlasting. Little children, guard yourselves from idols.

[mee]

Originally Posted by aburaees

I would like to add that Jesus was/is supposed to come "like a thief in the night". Meaning that if you weren't/aren't keeping watch through the 'twighlight hours'...

you would not even see him coming.


.

yes ,as Jesus said, the end of this system will come at an hour that we do not think to be it. ..........if we have not kept awake and do not know where we are in the stream of time ,we may not even realize that we are in the time of the end. so then, we would really be in the dark. but at least we can conceal ourselves in plenty of time before hand
Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father matthew 24;36 yes we are living in a time like Noahs day , the people could have concealed themselves if they had listened to Noah and got into the ark with him . but it seems that only a few were saved .
and they took no note until the flood came and swept them all away, so the presence of the Son of man will be matthew 24;39

[BlaznFattyz]

Note: Matthew 24:36 Some manuscripts do not have "nor the Son", they have nor any man.

It is important to note that Christ is the alpha and omega, and knows all things from beginning to end as he is one with the Father from everlasting. it is only during his time on earth and his limitations as a man that he said such a thing.

[mee]

Originally Posted by BlaznFattyz

Note: Matthew 24:36 Some manuscripts do not have "nor the Son", they have nor any man.

It is important to note that Christ is the alpha and omega, and knows all things from beginning to end as he is one with the Father from everlasting. it is only during his time on earth and his limitations as a man that he said such a thing.

"Concerning that day or the hour nobody knows, neither the angels in heaven nor the Son, but the Father. MARK 13;32
(Acts 1:7) He said to them: "It does not belong to YOU to get knowledge of the times or seasons which the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction;

[Quahom1]

Originally Posted by mee

"Concerning that day or the hour nobody knows, neither the angels in heaven nor the Son, but the Father. MARK 13;32
(Acts 1:7) He said to them: "It does not belong to YOU to get knowledge of the times or seasons which the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction;

New King James:

7 "And He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority."

Nope, I don't see where it says it does or does not belong to anyone, but rather "...it is not for you", and I do not see where "you" was capitalized as YOU. Nor do I see anywhere where God states anything about "getting knowledge" (as in learning something new or different), nor do I see anything about God's "jurisdiction" (which by the way means BOUNDARIES), which is ludicrious, since GOD, has no boundaries.

What it does say (specifically), is "His own authority".

Your Bible, seems to be the one that is not quite at par with the Greek and Hebrew "literal" translations, I fear...

v/r

Q

[RubySera_Martin]

Originally Posted by Polycarp

If I had the right midi link, I'd put in a passage of "Work, for the night is coming"!

Here it is http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/w/o/workfort.htm

[RubySera_Martin]

Originally Posted by wil

(Ok so)....what I'm thinking....What if Jesus has been here and gone many times...walked with us, talked with us, and decided to let us continue on our journey...has faith that we will work it out and eventually get it right. Yeah, the inspector says, they are making some mistakes, but nothing dramatic...they'll be fine...I'll come back later....

I like this story. I also like what someone mentioned where Jesus said inasmuch as ye do it to one of the least of these my brethren you have done it unto me. Both allow the possibility that Jesus is here among us today. I guess I should mention that I favour the view of allegory when it comes to the Jesus story. I can no longer live with the fear and anxiety of the Second Coming or of ending up in hell because I didn't get it right.

I was raised with the idea that the Second Coming and the End of the World were one and the same thing.

[lunamoth]

I'm going to repeat the question:
Assuming that we do expect a Messianic return, what will Jesus actually represent in terms of teachings and meaning?

Originally Posted by seattlegal

Originally Posted by Jesus
John 13:34"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."

Exactly and 'amen.'

Jesus can not return as an unfamiliar Jesus, as a secret that only some can recognize or figure out. The Second Coming is the fulfillment of hope and the final act of victory, not 'more of the same.' If not then the promise of the Second Coming has no meaning.

"24For the Son of Man in his day[c] will be like the lightning, which flashes and lights up the sky from one end to the other." (Luke 17)

Yes, it will be like a thief in the night, meaning it will be unexpected. But once the thief has come the evidence of his coming is clear. If we can't detect it, it has not happened.

2 c,
luna

[seattlegal]

Originally Posted by lunamoth

Exactly and 'amen.'

Jesus can not return as an unfamiliar Jesus, as a secret that only some can recognize or figure out. The Second Coming is the fulfillment of hope and the final act of victory, not 'more of the same.' If not then the promise of the Second Coming has no meaning.

"24For the Son of Man in his day[c] will be like the lightning, which flashes and lights up the sky from one end to the other." (Luke 17)

Yes, it will be like a thief in the night, meaning it will be unexpected. But once the thief has come the evidence of his coming is clear. If we can't detect it, it has not happened.

2 c,
luna

Originally Posted by Jeremiah 31:31-34

31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the LORD. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

[Saltmeister]

Originally Posted by lunamoth

Jesus can not return as an unfamiliar Jesus, as a secret that only some can recognize or figure out. The Second Coming is the fulfillment of hope and the final act of victory, not 'more of the same.' If not then the promise of the Second Coming has no meaning.

"24For the Son of Man in his day[c] will be like the lightning, which flashes and lights up the sky from one end to the other." (Luke 17)

Yes, it will be like a thief in the night, meaning it will be unexpected. But once the thief has come the evidence of his coming is clear. If we can't detect it, it has not happened.

He will be unfamiliar in one sense, but familiar in other ways.

In my view, the one and only true Jesus of the Second Coming will be an unfamiliar Jesus. All of the Jesus's that have come and gone are the ones that have always been and always will be familiar to us because the story they tell is exactly what we would expect from false Jesus's. Even before they tell us the story it's already familiar!!! Every false Jesus is just another deja vu of someone making fantastic claims of Messiah-hood. It is a claim that is based on a spin-off of another story told before that has simply been twisted into something slightly different.

He will be unfamiliar yet he will also be recognisable. When he comes, we will all know it's him. We will know it deep inside in our very heart and soul because he is unfamiliar in the sense that he's remarkably different to the other Jesus's. He'll have a personality that the others didn't have. All the other Jesus's were control freaks that wanted to make a name for themselves but the real one allowed people to condemn him and put him to death as a blasphemer. He allowed people to criticise him, call him names, make fun of him, but he didn't care because he had God on his side.

He's the one we all long for and hope for and we will know it's him because what we have long hoped for has finally become a reality.

It's something that we have never seen, never experienced, but something that we all believe in. When it comes, we will all sense that there's something different. What we believed in will come true, and that's when we'll know.

Unfamiliar but recognisable.

[cyberpi]

Saltmeister who wrote the beliefs that you teach?

[RubySera_Martin]

Originally Posted by cyberpi

Saltmeister who wrote the beliefs that you teach?

Cyberpi, it sounds like you are unfamiliar with the Christian mindset. Saltmeister says "in my view," so I think these are Saltmeister's own views on the matter. I think a Christian posting personal views on a public forum does not constitute "teaching." If this Christian posts the same view on many different forums over a long period of time it would be understood as a "teaching." NOTE: I am referring to them as "a veiw" or "ideas," rather than "beliefs" because I suspect that is what they are.

But a first and only post of a particular idea is not considered a "teaching." Of course, I have not been following Saltmeister so I don't know if these views have been repeatedly posted around the internet, but the way they are stated makes me believe this is the first time Saltmeister posted these ideas.

There is one other way in which I don't think these views can be taken as a "teaching." The purpose of the thread, so far as I understand it, is to brainstorm on what the second coming might be like, whether or not it has already happened, etc. My understanding of brain-storming sessions is that anyone is allowed--encouraged--to put forth any idea that occurs without having to prove or support the idea.

Perhaps this is alien to a Muslim's way of thinking but from my observation it is normal, acceptable, and quite in line with regular Christian mental operations.

[mee]

Originally Posted by Quahom1

New King James:

7 "And He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority."

Nope, I don't see where it says it does or does not belong to anyone, but rather "...it is not for you", and I do not see where "you" was capitalized as YOU. Nor do I see anywhere where God states anything about "getting knowledge" (as in learning something new or different), nor do I see anything about God's "jurisdiction" (which by the way means BOUNDARIES), which is ludicrious, since GOD, has no boundaries.

What it does say (specifically), is "His own authority".

Your Bible, seems to be the one that is not quite at par with the Greek and Hebrew "literal" translations, I fear...

v/r

Q

yes , it is in his authority , it means the same thing
Lit., "authority." Gr., e·xou·si´ai. so only the father knows the day or the hour, that was the point i was trying to make .

[Saltmeister]

Originally Posted by cyberpi

Saltmeister who wrote the beliefs that you teach?

Originally Posted by RubySera_Martin

.............
But a first and only post of a particular idea is not considered a "teaching." Of course, I have not been following Saltmeister so I don't know if these views have been repeatedly posted around the internet, but the way they are stated makes me believe this is the first time Saltmeister posted these ideas.

There is one other way in which I don't think these views can be taken as a "teaching." The purpose of the thread, so far as I understand it, is to brainstorm on what the second coming might be like, whether or not it has already happened, etc. My understanding of brain-storming sessions is that anyone is allowed--encouraged--to put forth any idea that occurs without having to prove or support the idea.

Who writes my beliefs? At the moment, nobody . . .

My thoughts, beliefs and way of thinking may either be my own original ideas, or may be influenced by others. When I first joined CR, my way of thinking and attitude with regards to Christianity was a bit more restrictive. Prior to that, I had been exploring web sites that discussed Christianity and its relationship with other religions, but most of them were generally very doctrine-oriented.

CR gave me a different experience, and I am gradually settling in with this new-found experience. I joined about a year ago. I began to notice the different views and ideas that people were presenting, particularly with regard to Christianity. For me, it's broken quite a few "boundaries." The Christianity I think of now is not the same Christianity as the one I had when I signed up at CR. The experience of people like Wil, Taijasi, Path of One and countless others (which I can't remember off the top of my head) kind of triggered a change in the way I saw things.

What I've seen and read at CR has opened the way for more divergent thinking on the topic of Christianity where I can explore Christian concepts without having to conform to some rigid framework. Very liberating indeed. So as a flashback, when I first joined CR, I really felt an urge inside me to shoot people down for their beliefs and tell them they were wrong. It was because I wasn't familiar with an atmosphere of diversity. The notion of diversity was a bit strange and foreign to me.

I feel like I've been tamed and enlightened at the same time.

As for what I post now, yes you could call it brainstorming and thoughts conceived on the fly. It's more like a soliloquy. As I'm exploring, sometimes I will cross boundaries and my ideas may seem distant to traditional Christianity. Whether anyone reads what I say, means less to me that the fact that I'm learning. I post and forget. As I'm exploring, I don't always explicitly state that it's just my view. Instead of saying, over and over again, "In my view . . . in my view etc," I will sometimes launch straight into saying what I think.

It's just me helping myself understand Christianity better. Sure, I've grown up in a Christian family, but that doesn't mean I know everything about the religion I follow. It doesn't make me an expert. That's just the beginning. It takes a lifetime to appreciate and understand a religion, particularly Christianity and likewise for other major religions like Judaism, Islam and Buddhism. It's better than sitting on my butt and doing nothing!

I've been aware, for a long time, that there are common expectations on what a Christian is supposed to say and believe, even from non-Christians and outsiders. I don't think Christianity should be reduced to that size. I think the boundaries of Christianity are a lot bigger than that. With some lateral and divergent thinking, I think we'd all find that Christianity is much bigger than what people commonly hear and read in speeches, books and magazines. The idea of being "reduced in size" and stereotyped as a Christian is very intimidating. I feel like I'm not properly understood.

My exploration is me saying to people, "No, guys. I'm not really as small as you think." Whether you're Christian, Jew or Muslim, you don't want to be stereotyped. I used to think all Jews and Muslims were the same. I was too apathetic to notice differences between individuals. But on CR, I seen different flavours of Muslims and Jews. That has changed the way I think.