The Rapture

[sachetm]

This was posted on another board. Although I question the legitimacy of it (if the woman was killed, how does she claim anything?), it does fit into this discussion, though in a rather tongue-in-cheek manner.

Arkansas Woman Killed in Mistaken Rapture

ARKANSAS CITY (EAP) -- A Little Rock woman was killed yesterday
after leaping through her moving car's sun roof during an incident best described as a "mistaken rapture" by dozens of eye-witnesses. Thirteen other people were injured after a twenty-car pile-up resulted from people trying to avoid hitting the woman who was apparently convinced that the rapture was occurring when she saw twelve people floating up into the air, and then passed a man on the side of the road who she claimed was Jesus.

"She started screaming 'He's back!, He's back!' and climbed right out of the sunroof and jumped off the roof of the car," said Everet Williams, husband of 28-year-old Georgann Williams who was pronounced dead at the scene.

"I was slowing down but she wouldn't wait till I stopped,"Willams said. She thought the rapture was happening and was convinced that Jesus was gonna lift her up into the sky," he went on to say.

"This is the strangest thing I've seen since I've been on the force,"said Paul Madison, first officer on the scene.

Madison questioned the man who looked like Jesus and discovered that he was on his way to a toga costume party, when the tarp covering the bed of his pickup truck came loose and released twelve blown-up sex dolls filled with helium which then floated up into the sky.

Ernie Jenkins, 32, of Fort Smith, who's been told by several of his friends that he looks like Jesus, pulled over and lifted his arms into the air in frustration, just as the Williams' car passed him, and Mrs Williams was sure that it was Jesus lifting people up into the sky as they passed by him, according to her husband, who says his wife was a devout Christian.

[Vajradhara]

Namaste,

you've got to give us the source for that article

[Siege]

Here's information on the source, but I'm afraid it's not true. If anyone here isn't familiar with http://www.snopes.com, there a wonderful site for tracking down the truth of various tales which float around the internet.

CJ

[I, Brian]

I was pretty convinced - until I got up to the second to last paragraph, about the toga party and inflated sex dolls.

[WHKeith]

I, too, question this story. It has all the trappings of an urban legend. But--my God! It's hilarious, in a gruesome way! Please, please cite the source, if you have it!

I can relate a story--not NEARLY so dramatic, but it is true. Perhaps thirty years ago, I was still a Charismatic Christian, was deeply involved in lay ministry at a local church, and had been counciling a woman who'd come to Christianity after being a practicing witch. Somewhere along the line, I told her all about the Rapture and the Second Coming, and she avidly abosrbed it all.

A couple of weeks later, though, she was driving down a major street in the Northwest Chicago suburbs--this is a BUSY area with lots of traffic at all times--and she suddenly realized . . . she was alone. There were NO other cars on the highway, no pedestrians, no sign of any other people anywhere! This went on for several moments, and she became more and more and more nervous, afraid that the Rapture had ocme and everyone had been zapped up to heaven except her! She ended up driving at high speed to the church and calling me for reassurance! We decided that God had allowed her a glimpse of a "what if" scenario, to remind her in a memorable way that Christ could return at any moment. It's a wonder she didn't get herself in an accident, though.

But the helium-filled sex dolls . . . man, I can't top that!

[I, Brian]

Originally Posted by WHKeith

I, too, question this story. It has all the trappings of an urban legend. But--my God! It's hilarious, in a gruesome way! Please, please cite the source, if you have it!

I can relate a story--not NEARLY so dramatic, but it is true. Perhaps thirty years ago, I was still a Charismatic Christian, was deeply involved in lay ministry at a local church, and had been counciling a woman who'd come to Christianity after being a practicing witch. Somewhere along the line, I told her all about the Rapture and the Second Coming, and she avidly abosrbed it all.

A couple of weeks later, though, she was driving down a major street in the Northwest Chicago suburbs--this is a BUSY area with lots of traffic at all times--and she suddenly realized . . . she was alone. There were NO other cars on the highway, no pedestrians, no sign of any other people anywhere! This went on for several moments, and she became more and more and more nervous, afraid that the Rapture had ocme and everyone had been zapped up to heaven except her! She ended up driving at high speed to the church and calling me for reassurance! We decided that God had allowed her a glimpse of a "what if" scenario, to remind her in a memorable way that Christ could return at any moment. It's a wonder she didn't get herself in an accident, though.

But the helium-filled sex dolls . . . man, I can't top that!

Sounds to me as if the Bears were playing the Superbowl at the time.

[brucegdc]

Snopes has the story described as Urban Legend - pure fiction. Still a good one....

[Stormdancer]

‘The initial development of the pre-tribulation rapture doctrine was, either by the trance-induced 20-year-old Margaret Mac- , Donald or by John Nelson Darby.
The Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe in a rapture, as in, taken away into the clouds, ( I was a J.W. for a few years.)

They do believe in the second comming when Christ shall reign upon earth but not rapturing away into heaven.

and yes,
they say he may have come in 1914 but I don't know why or what he did.....LOL

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards to all!

It seems at times the really fun threads are buried in the back and largely forgotten. I would like to resurrect this one in order to add my two cents, if that's ok.

After having read the Bible through at a very receptive time in my life, I came to many conclusions that didn't coincide with what was being taught in the churches I had been in. The Rapture was definitely one of those teachings. At no point did I find the word "Rapture." Even the passages commonly used to support the rapture concept can only seem to do so when pulled out of context and reinterpreted.

Later, I read some work by Dave McPherson (sp?), titled something like "The Rapture Hoax." I'm afraid my copy seems to have disappeared, so from here I'm going by memory. In it, he traces the beginning of the matter to a Scottish Catholic lass named Margaret McDonald, circa 1830-ish. It was claimed she was in the throes of "ecstasy", whether induced or otherwise is not confirmed. A couple of guys, one Brit and one American, picked up on her dream and claimed it to be some form of prophecy. Each of them founded churches centered around this new "revelation." I wish I had my copy here in order to give names of the men and the organizations. The British organization foundered and failed, but the American brought the new teaching across the pond and had some modest success until the American civil war. After the civil war, the new teaching gained momentum in the Shenandoah Valley of Virginia among grieving widows. From there it exploded across the land among certain Christian denominations, and by now has come to be represented in most denominations here I am familiar with, each with its own peculiar spins.

Besides being an extra-Biblical teaching, what I find disturbing among the adherents of the doctrine has to do with the approach to the Word in their minds. This is a generalized observation, and I am certain there are exceptions. The people under the influence of such teaching tend to dismiss the bulk of the teachings of the Bible on the grounds that "it doesn't matter anyway, we're going to be out of here soon." This is an oversimplification, because there are related teachings that contribute to this attitude, such as "being saved by grace" while ignoring James' teachings of the saved "man" being the working "man." "All you've got to do is believe!", instead of reading, understanding and doing the teachings of Christ.

The passages commonly cited; Isaiah, Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Daniel, Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21, Thessalonians, etc., do have promises and claims, but when taken in the context they are written they expound a far different promise from that of "rapture." Isaiah chapters 2 and 11, for instance, promise a time when all will be brought together in peace to be taught correctly. Why would I, as a believer, want to be "raptured" away from this promise?

As I am fond of saying, "if I happen to be mistaken, I am prepared to go. If 'they' happen to be mistaken, are they prepared to stay here and endure?"


My two cents on this subject.

[Ocean_Drop]

The rapture? Oh please...

2Ti 4:3
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4
And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

A dictionary definition of 'fable' = a story about mythical or supernatural beings or events (www.dict.org) .

If your capacity to reason dictates that the literal interpretation is valid, go ahead. It's the literal interpretation of such 'signs' that contributed towards the Pharisees denying Christ... you could imagine them saying "Hey did anyone here see Elijah come down on a chariot of fire?", "Hey, can you see the wolves grazing in the same pasture as the sheep?" and so on. If you perceive with insight you would realize these words possess such eloquence and clarity as to mark the epitome of utterance. Alas, alas history repeats itself and people sadly entertain these bizarre superstitions.

Ocean Drop

[Marsh]

Originally Posted by Ocean_Drop

The rapture? Oh please... If your capacity to reason dictates that the literal interpretation is valid, go ahead. It's the literal interpretation of such 'signs' that contributed towards the Pharisees denying Christ...

I would agree with you insofar as I think taking only the literal interpretation of the Bible is an easy way out, so to speak. But I don't think we should completely rule out the literal, either. I think a lot of fundamentalist, charismatic churches in the world experience a lot more of the fruit of the Holy Spirit simply because they believe so fervently in the literal interpretation, while many other churches become luke-warm, not believing fervently in anything.

And on the subject of luke-warmness, I would like to ask you of your opinion on one particular passage in the Revelation of Jesus Christ, Ocean Drop:

Rev. 3:10-11 "Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth. I am coming soon."

How do you interpret the words "keep you from" in this passage? How else would Jesus manage to keep people from the tribulation (I interpet the hour of trial and test he refers to as the tribulation, based on its context in the letters to the churches), other than with a rapture-like event?

[9Harmony]

Originally Posted by Marsh

I would agree with you insofar as I think taking only the literal interpretation of the Bible is an easy way out, so to speak. But I don't think we should completely rule out the literal, either. I think a lot of fundamentalist, charismatic churches in the world experience a lot more of the fruit of the Holy Spirit simply because they believe so fervently in the literal interpretation, while many other churches become luke-warm, not believing fervently in anything.

And on the subject of luke-warmness, I would like to ask you of your opinion on one particular passage in the Revelation of Jesus Christ, Ocean Drop:

Rev. 3:10-11 "Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth. I am coming soon."

How do you interpret the words "keep you from" in this passage? How else would Jesus manage to keep people from the tribulation (I interpet the hour of trial and test he refers to as the tribulation, based on its context in the letters to the churches), other than with a rapture-like event?

Greetings Marsh,

My interpretation (as a Baha'i) of the rapture is a spiritual one. I believe the hour of tests and trials are upon us and when a person recognizes the newest messenger they are raptured spiritually (still here physically). Recognition of the messenger is the key to protection and preservation from tests. Those who recognize Him will still be tested but will be better equipped to cope with them.

(This is my interpretation and in no way represents an authoritative view)

I'm sure Ocean Drop will be along and give a much better response.

Loving Greetings, Harmony

[berinwitness]

When I first heard, in the mid-1970s, of a pre-Tribulation Rapture my response was "I don't want to go, God. If this seven years is the worst period in human history then I want to stay here and be helpful."
The issue is irrelevant, of course. I was then, and am still, a member of the Baha'i Faith, so I'm not eligible. But I still think the pre-Trib idea is heartless. Anyone who would leave humanity to suffer like that while they enjoy themselves in Heaven is not a loving person.

And here is a question for Jerry Falwell. If pre-Trib is so wonderful, why did you want convicted-murderess-turned-Christian Karla Faye Tucker to have had her sentence commuted to life imprisonment instead of executing her as soon as possible? Would she have been happier in a cell in Texas than in Heaven with Jesus?

[Faithfulservant]

I dont know if its worth bumping this thread or if the original participants still read the thread I would just like to clear up a misunderstanding that I read from Thomas. The rapture is the calling of the church before the 7 year reign of the anti-christ.. which is the tribulation. The reason we believe that the church will be called is because he never mentions the church after a certain point in revelation. God has promised us that we will never see his wrath Christ has promised to be faithful to his faithful church.. is it an american only thing? no lol his church isnt defined geographically.. The 144,000 are of the 12 tribes of Judah and its exactly what it says.. they are the descendents of Israel.. they are the ones that are left on earth during the 1000 year millennial reign of Christ.. I was quite surprised that noone corrected him on this.. It sounds like he was quoting some beliefs such as seventh day adventists who believe that is the church that remains on the earth during that 1k year time.

[Basstian]

I got a Question where in the Bible do you read the word Rapture?????

Second they use the text one will be take etc etc etc

Never say whether the one taken is the good one or the one left on earth

The Bible says the wicked will never inherit the earth. My comments in Bold below from the book of Matthew

37: But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38: For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39: And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away;(So the ones taken were the Bad guys Noah was refered to as Left) so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40: Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41: Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42: Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43: But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44: Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
45: Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46: Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47: Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.(Humm doesnt say this servent will be taken but rather rewarded when the master returns to his houshold)
48: But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49: And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50: The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

A wise paster once saw a bumper sticker saying " In Case of Rapture This Vehicle Will Be Unmanned" He said He hoped they left an open title in the glove box and the Keys in the ignition

When Jesus talks about seperating wheat from taors are not the tares always cast out
And sheep also.
His second coming says every eye shall see him and yes the dead in christ will rise but his Kingdom you will have to find me scripture that says He is taking me for a ride anywhere .

And dont say Rapture cause its not in the Bible.