The Quran - through my eyes.

[17th Angel]

Assalam u alaikum wa rahmatulahi wa baakatuhu,

Not a problem at all brother! I find it very relaxing and soothing to just listen to the words, it comes out in the native tounge like poetry... And it's beautiful, soothing and good for the soul.... And those that are coming to investigate Islam from other lands like me, you might find it hard to begin with to read it, so seriously Francis have another go but with listening... I like to listen to it in the bath lol... As Diao said, this is an extremley good translation and version.

Ma salama.

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by jilan

Could you please help me to identify which/what Christians Quran refer to?

wa aleykum salaam

I have no great knowledge but am happy to share my ideas with you.

First we must remember two things, the Christianity of today is not the Christianity preached by Isa (pbuh) and that he was a Jew. This is very important because people often think of him as a Christian but he was not, he was Jewish and learnt the Jewish scripture (Torah) which he also taught to others. This scripture clearly states that there is Only One G-d and Isa himself said there is only One G-d and we must worship only Him.

Christianity travelled quickly throughout the world and different areas developed different beliefs. There were also a number of splits in the church over the centuries. It was not until the 4th century that the Christian Church developed the doctrine of the trinity (Father, Son and Spirit) and not all sects of Christinity had accepted this doctrine.

There are two issues for us as Muslims, as far as I can see:

1. Who is Allah talking about when He says we should say "We believe in that which hath been revealed unto us and revealed unto you"?

I believe this is talking about the very early Christians, who received the message of Isa (pbuh). This was before the church declared him to be G-d. A number of biblical historians state that people close to Isa (pbuh) never claimed he was G-d and he himself never made this claim.

So to me, Allah is telling us to believe in the message that was given to the Jews and then to the Christians. The message from Allah has never changed, it is only mankind that has changed it in all of our religions.

Look at the ten commandments. All ten are contained in Judaism, Christianity and Islam, with the exception of the 4th which says to hold to the Sabbath (the Jews have the Sabbath, the Christians Sunday and we have Friday, so we all have a day of rememberence and praise of Allah). These, to me, are the essence of the faith, the absoulte message of Allah. It is very simple and everything else is just men arguing about things that are not important. If we all followed those commandments we would have nothing to argue about.

2. Who are the Christians that the Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) would have come into regular contact with?

Because of the trading route through Mecca Jewish Christians would probably have travelled through Arabia since the time of Isa (pbuh) but their beliefs would be more in line with Judaism rather than modern Christianity.

In the 5th Century the main sect of Christians in the Arabian peninsula were the Nestorians. They had been rejected by the church because of their beliefs and moved down into Persia, being given protection by the Sassanids. When King Shapur II took power in Persia he persecuted the Nestorians and they moved down into Arabia. We know from the hadith that the Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) had contact with the Nestorians.

Nestorians believed that Isa (pbuh) was just a man but that he was also Logos (the divine essence of G-d, it is a Greek word meaning word or wisdom so this would make him the Word of G-d). They did not believe that he was crucified as Logos but only as a man. They rejected the term 'mother of G-d' which the church gave to Maryam (pbuh) as they said she was only the mother of the man, not of Logos.

So we can see from this that the Christianity the Prophet would have learnt about is quite different to the Christianity we hear about today. We also know that the Christianity of the early Christians is rather different to the Christianity of today (of course Christians would not agree with that).

However from talking to Christians about their beliefs I have found that they have very different views about what Isa (pbuh) was. Some believe he was a man and the Word of G-d, some believe he is G-d Himself and others believe he is one of three entities. I most certainly do not understand what it is that most Christians believe and so will not judge them to be worshipping anything but G-d because if they believe the trinity is really a single entity then can that be worshipping anything but G-d? I have no answer and I leave it to Allah (swt) to judge us all, as only He knows what is in our hearts and what we really believe. Of course I shall continue to discuss the issue of the trinity with Christians but I hope in a respectful manner.

One thing we must remember is that Islam has also split into numerous sects over the centuries, all believeing different things and the message of peace the Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) brought is now often turned into one of intolerence. This is human nature, we all want to be right and sadly it often seems more important to be right than follow the basic commandments of Allah (swt).

Originally Posted by jilan

PS. English is not my 1st or 2nd language, please excuse me if I made many mistakes to express my thinking and question...

I think your english is wonderful. If I have said anything you do not understandplease say so and I shall try to explain in a different way.

Salaam

[shamsery]

Originally Posted by greymare

mw. you have opened my eyes . Seriously, I didnt realize that the texts contain information about jesus, mary even adam and eve. I was thoroughly ignorant to this andI thank you. I guess I thought it contained just stuff that basically said we are right and basically everyone else is wrong and kill them if they dont believe. I told you I was ignorant. Keep going. its good reading and I hope others could read it like this. ( in your words) you know, there really isnt a lot of difference (basically) .

“It is He Who has created for you (the faculties of)hearing, sight, feeling and understanding: little thanks it is ye give!”
[Al-Qur’an 23:78]

[Muslimwoman]

Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water

Next we have Sura 34 called Saba (meaning Sheba) and has 54 verses. It is not known when this Sura was revealed but deals with the accusations against the Prophethood of Mohammad (pbuh).

Little interesting historical detail for you:

Those who disbelieve say: Shall we show you a man who will tell you (that) when ye have become dispersed in dust with most complete dispersal still, even then, ye will be created anew? (34:7)

The Pagans of Arabia, whilst believing in many gods did not believe in an afterlife, they believed that when you died that was it. So when the Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) came to them saying they should do good deeds and worship only Allah in order not to be punished in the next life they obviously thought he was a class one nutcase and laughed at him.

I love the following verses:

Say (O Muhammad): Call upon those whom ye set up beside Allah! They possess not an atom's weight either in the heavens or in the earth, nor have they any share in either, nor hath He an auxiliary among them. (34:22)

No intercession availeth with Him save for him whom He permitteth. Yet, when fear is banished from their hearts, they say: What was it that your Lord said? They say: The Truth. And He is the Sublime, the Great. (34:23)

Say: Who giveth you provision from the sky and the earth? Say: Allah, Lo! we or you assuredly are rightly guided or in error manifest. (34:24)

Say: Ye will not be asked of what we committed, nor shall we be asked of what ye do. (34:25)

Say: Our Lord will bring us all together, then He will judge between us with truth. He is the All-knowing Judge. (34:26)


You know all the times you hear that the whole world has to be Muslim or we should kill anyone who isn't Muslim? The Quran says no such thing, throughout the Quran it is accepted that there will always be believers and non believers and we shall all be judged fairly, for only Allah knows the truth of all things including what is in our hearts.

There are two important points in these verses. Firstly there is no intercession unless Allah permits it, so for example I could not ask Allah to forgive your sins and you could not ask Him to forgive mine.

Secondly we shall be judged for our own sins and not those of anyone else. Now, when you hear about Muslims calling Jews names and saying they are all going to burn in hell because of the acts of some Jews centuries ago, ask yourself why Allah would punish anyone for the sins of others after clearly saying He will not do so.

This does not mean that I convince you to kill someone I will not be punished because I did not kill that person, because clearly inciting you to kill is a sin in itself and one for which I would be punished.

Because of these and similar verses Muslims do not believe in original sin, as we cannot be punished for the acts of anyone else, not even Adam & Eve (pbut).


Sura 35 if from the Meccan period and is called Fatir (the Angels), it has 45 verses.

This is a beautiful Sura and deals with the unbelievers of Mecca. Allah explains to the Prophet that he should not trouble himself with outright disbelief or feel bad if he cannot get the message through to these people but he should concentrate his efforts on those that will listen. It reads like a patient teacher earnestly trying to get an important lesson through to a class.

Again it deals with disbelief and trying to explain to people what awaits them, so doesn't fit in with the thread in that it doesn't deal with how Muslims are taught to treat others fairly and kindly.

And the two seas are not alike: this, fresh, sweet, good to drink, this (other) bitter, salt. And from them both ye eat fresh meat and derive the ornament that ye wear. And thou seest the ship cleaving them with its prow that ye may seek of His bounty, and that haply ye may give thanks. (35:12)

I have heard this verse used as proof of the Quran because it distinguishes between fresh and salt water, as though the Arabs at the time had no clue about it. Sorry but to my thinking they were desert Arabs and their very survival would depend on finding fresh drinking water. They also traded in other countries so would have crossed seas and known well that sea water was undrinkable.

And they cry for help there, (saying): Our Lord! Release us; we will do right, not (the wrong) that we used to do. Did not We grant you a life long enough for him who reflected to reflect therein? And the warner came unto you. Now taste (the flavour of your deeds), for evil-doers have no helper. (35:37)

This is such an important verse for everyone. It refers to the souls in hell and warns us that our lifetime on earth is the time we will be judged by, we cannot be sorry later on when we realise the error of our ways.


Sura 36 is called Ya-Sin and has no translation but are two letters of the Arabic alphabet. This is a very important chapter and has 83 verses.

Imam Ahmad, Abu Daud, Nasai, Ibn Majah and Tabarani have related on the authority of Hadrat Ma'qil bin Yasar that the Holy Prophet said:"Surah Ya Sin is the heart of the Qur'an."

The Prophet also reportedly said "Recite Surah Ya Sin to the dying ones among you."

This chapter follows the two previous but is a much sterner warning. It is believed this chapter was revealed nearing the end of the Meccan period when people were torturing and killing Muslims. They tried a few times to kill the Prophet and this chapter is a stern warning to those who do not believe, almost a last ditched attempt to get them to see the truth before the Prophet fled Mecca.

For those that are interested the Sura can be read here:

USC-MSA Compendium of Muslim Texts


Sura 37 is called As-Saaffat (drawn up in ranks), it has 82 verses and is in the same vane as the previous 3 chapters warning about the Day of Judgement.

However there is something I would like to mention, which goes to the heart of much of the misunderstanding about Islam and it's views on women.

037.022
YUSUFALI: "Bring ye up", it shall be said, "The wrong-doers and their wives, and the things they worshipped-
PICKTHAL: (And it is said unto the angels): Assemble those who did wrong, together with their wives and what they used to worship
SHAKIR: Gather together those who were unjust and their associates, and what they used to worship


So how can this be if no person can be judged for the sins of another?

It's all in the translation. The term used in Arabic is azwaj.

In my copy of the Quran the commentary says "That is if their wives were also wrong doers. They are separately mentioned because the Arabic phrase for 'wrong doers' is of the masculine gender. All the associates in wrong doing will be marshalled together. There will be personal responsibility: neither husband nor wife can lay the blame on the other."

According to almost all of the earliest authorities - including Umar ibn al-Khattab, Abd Allah ibn Abbas, Qatadah, Mujahid, As-Suddi, Said ibn Jubayr, Al-Hasan al-Basri, etc., the expression azwaj denotes here "people resembling one another in their dispositions" or "people of the same kind" or "of the same ilk".

The following is from a study undertaken into the use of the term Zawj (plural azwaj) in the Quran:
In this brief exercise I came across two ayahs that wrongly translated “Zawj" to “wives" alone, leading to larger negative implications on women. We entered into a lengthy discussion in class about these two ayahs, and came to the conclusion that given their context and wording they were indeed mistranslated. I am indicating them here for the purposes of notification, as well as keeping in mind the subtle patriarchal tendencies that are still influencing current translations.

The ayahs are listed below, due to the limited scope of the paper I will not discuss them here, but a brief look into them should suffice to indicate to the reader their problematic aspects:

“O ye who believe! Truly, among your wives and your children are (some that are) enemies to yourselves: so beware of them! But if ye forgive and overlook, and cover up (their faults), verily Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful".[Quran 64:14]

“Bring ye up”, it shall be said, “The wrong-doers and their wives, and the things they worshipped"[Quran 37:22]

I find this verse an excellent demonstration of how things can easily be misinterpreted if you simply pick up a copy of the translated Quran and start reading without further study when you come across something that just doesn't sound right.

[LetterFromElyse]

Asalam'alakim! I've been lurking for a few weeks and finally joined the forum after reading your thread. (...For the past two hours - needless to say, dinner will be late tonight!)

As a convert to Islam, I think I've learned more here than from much of the other literature I've read. I've been trying to get to the "core roots" of Islam for some time, but keep hitting the road blocks of various cultural traditions as they've become intertwined with the religion. (If that makes sense...)

In short, thank you for your informative, insightful and historically accurate posts. I lookforward to reading more!

[Muslimwoman]

Originally Posted by LetterFromElyse

Asalam'alakim! I've been lurking for a few weeks and finally joined the forum after reading your thread. (...For the past two hours - needless to say, dinner will be late tonight!)

As a convert to Islam, I think I've learned more here than from much of the other literature I've read. I've been trying to get to the "core roots" of Islam for some time, but keep hitting the road blocks of various cultural traditions as they've become intertwined with the religion. (If that makes sense...)

In short, thank you for your informative, insightful and historically accurate posts. I lookforward to reading more!

wa aleykum salaam wr wb

Welcome to the forum and thank you for your kind words. Alhamdolillah you have found Islam and as a convert myself I know how difficult it can be to find trustworthy information, without cultural slant or bias. You really have to become a researcher and historian, of which I am neither, to get to the roots of some issues but luckily I enjoy studying.

I hope we will have the opportunity to get to know each other better. I am not around here as much as I would like since I started working again but please free to contact me through the forum anytime.

Salaam

[Snoopy]

Hello again!

s.

[Muslimwoman]

On to Surah 38, called Sad (that is the name of a letter of the Arabic alphabet) and it has 88 verses.

The chapter deals with the disbelief of the Meccan tribes. There is much debate about when this chapter was revealed, some believe it was in the 4th year of Prophethood and others the 10th or 11th year, during the year of Abu Talibs final illness (he was the uncle and powerful protector of the Prophet and obviously as he drew nearer his death the tribal chiefs would see an opportunity to rid themselves of the Prophet once his protector was dead).

The chapter doesn't deal with social issues but I would like to share one verse which is lost on so many people but I believe a very important part of faith.

038.074YUSUFALI: Not so Iblis: he was haughty, and became one of those who reject Faith.
PICKTHAL: Saving Iblis; he was scornful and became one of the disbelievers.
SHAKIR: But not Iblis: he was proud and he was one of the unbelievers.

We know that Iblis (Satan) was cast from heaven because he refused to bow down to G-d's new creation, Adam (pbuh).

This was at the very beginning of mankind and yet Satan is refered to as a rejector of faith or an unbeliever or in another translation a wrong doer (depending on the translation you read).

So think about that for a moment, what was he rejecting, there was no book or rituals to follow. He was rejecting faith, not a structured religion but the Will of Allah Himself.

I just think that is such a big thought and next time you feel like suggesing someone is an unbeliever because they don't dress according to your interpretation of your faith you should maybe think about the origin of the first unbeliever and what the Will of G-d really is.

As I have said before the 10 commandments run through the three religions, because Allah has always sent the same message but I am astounded that people will knowingly break commandments and then point the finger at someone because their hijab is the wrong colour or they wear trousers.

Wouldn't we all be better believers if we took the lesson of Iblis and submitted to the Will of Allah?


Surah 39 is called az-zumar (often translated as the troops but would be better translated as ranks because it does not refer to soldiers but the rank that will enter hell or heaven on the Day of Judgement. There are 75 verses and again this chapter deals with the unbelievers in Mecca.


Surah 40 is called al-ghafir (the forgiver) and has 85 verses. Again it is dealing with the disbelief and worship of idols in Mecca, also the treatment of the Prophet and his companions.

What is unusual and interesting is that these verses (39 and 40) are believed to be in chronilogical order as they were revealed.


I don't want anything thinking at this point that chapters are the same, this thread was to show the social aspects of Islam in this life. Whilst there is some repetition in the chapters I am glossing over because the theme remains the same the chapters are quite different.


Chapter 41 is called Fussilat (meaning explained in detail) and has 54 verses.

This is a really beautiful chapter and whilst not dealing with social issues there are two bits I would like to point out. You will often hear or read on websites that the Quran contains contradictions and one is the number of days Allah took to create the heavens and earth.

Allow me to demonstrate:

Say (O Muhammad, unto the idolaters): Disbelieve ye verily in Him Who created the earth in two Days, and ascribe ye unto Him rivals? He (and none else) is the Lord of the Worlds (41:9)

So you will read on sites that the Quran says it took 2,4 or 6 and this is a clear contradiction and therefore proof the Quran is not from G-d.

owever this is the usual isolation of verses and not reading the Quran as a whole. The very next verse says:

He placed therein firm hills rising above it, and blessed it and measured therein its sustenance in four Days, alike for (all) who ask (41:10)

So as we now see different verses refer to different stages of the creation.

There are a number of records telling the story of the revelation of this chapter and as they differ very slightly and have good records of the narrators the stories are believed to be authentic.

At the time the pagans of Mecca were using a type of passive resistence to the preaching of the Prophet and his followers. Whenever a Muslim would speak they would jeer and taunt them. They would take one verse and interpret it totally out of context (as people still do today), this would then be spread around as the teaching of Islam.

The pagans would say that the Prophet must be a fake because if he was really receiving revelations from Allah then these would be in a language he could not speak, as proof it came from G-d. Of course this is a catch 22 because if it had been revealed in a different language they would reject it as being incomprhensible.

At the same time this was going on the chiefs of Mecca were trying to work out how to make the Prophet shut up and go away. As all rich men do they assumed that money and power was the answer and this was why this madman was making all the fuss.

The chiefs were gathered at their assembly in Mecca and the Prophet sat away from them by himself. Utbah bin Rabi'ah left the chiefs and went to offer the Prophet money and/or to be a king and/or 'medical' assistance at their expense if he was mad. The Prophet patiently listened to all of the proposals and then recited this chapter.

Utbah bin Radi'ah then returned to the chiefs and said that the Prophet was no poet, madman or magician and suggested that the chiefs just let the Prophet be because he believed that the Prophets message would get through to the people and that either the other Arabian tribes would then kill the Prophet (meaning the Quraish tribe didn't have his blood on their hands) or the Prophet would take over Arabia and the Quraish, being the Prophets tribe, would share in his achievements.

The chiefs told Utbah bin Radi'ah that he had been betwiched by the Prophet and he replied "I have given you my opinion, now do as you please". The chiefs continued to plot the murder of the Prophet.

[Muslimwoman]

Sorry I am not stopping until I finish this

Sura 42 is called ash-shura (meaning council or consultation), it has 53 verses and is believed to have been revealed at a time when the people of Mecca and the surounding areas were starting to dislike the way the tribal chiefs were treating the Muslims (remember by now it had gone beyond taunting and plotting and they were now pegging Muslims out in the hot sun and torturing them).

This chapter was then revealed and speaks to directly to the persecutors of Muslims and says much toward our interfaith dialogue. I say this because this chapter confirms that the revelations of the Quran are nothing new, they are in fact a continuance of the same message that has been passed to mankind from Allah since the beginning of humankind.

It then goes on to confirm that a Prophet is not appointed as the master of his people but is only a vessel to carry the message and it is not for a Prophet to force people to listen to the message or punish them, that is for Allah and Him alone.

I know this chapter is not about social issues but it goes so deeply to the heart of my personal faith that I would like to share some verses with you.

And thus We have inspired in thee a Lecture in Arabic, that thou mayst warn the mother-town and those around it, and mayst warn of a day of assembling whereof there is no doubt. A host will be in the Garden, and a host of them in the Flame. (42:7)

Had Allah willed, He could have made them one community, but Allah bringeth whom He will into His mercy. And the wrong-doers have no friend nor helper. (42:8)

Verse 7 states very clearly that the Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) was sent as a warner for his people and the people in surrounding areas, he was not a judge of faith.

And in whatsoever ye differ, the verdict therein belongeth to Allah. Such is my Lord, in Whom I put my trust, and unto Whom I turn. (42:10)

This is why I get so tetchy when people say others are not true to their faith or are going to hell, nobody can judge what a person holds in their heart, this is only for Allah to know and judge.

He hath ordained for you that religion which He commended unto Noah, and that which We inspire in thee (Muhammad), and that which We commended unto Abraham and Moses and Jesus, saying: Establish the religion, and be not divided therein. Dreadful for the idolaters is that unto which thou callest them. Allah chooseth for Himself whom He will, and guideth unto Himself him who turneth (toward Him). (42:13)

And they were not divided until after the knowledge came unto them, through rivalry among themselves; and had it not been for a Word that had already gone forth from thy Lord for an appointed term, it surely had been judged between them. And those who were made to inherit the Scripture after them are verily in hopeless doubt concerning it. (42:14)

This is so important to me. Of course Allah is aware of everything and He knows how mankind is. Through rivalry and the desire to be 'right' each 'group' (Jews Christians and now Muslims) argue and twist their scriptures to suit their argument, this then creates sects. As soon as sects emerge the message is at least watered down and at worst lost altogether. Muslim sects do not usually argue about the Quran but they argue about the hadiths and sunnah, they follow traditions with no basis in the Quran.

Unto this, then, summon (O Muhammad). And be thou upright as thou art commanded, and follow not their lusts, but say: I believe in whatever scripture Allah hath sent down, and I am commanded to be just among you. Allah is our Lord and your Lord. Unto us our works and unto you your works; no argument between us and you. Allah will bring us together, and unto Him is the journeying. (42:15)

Where does it say the whole world must be Muslim? I keep hearing this and yet it goes against the very Word of Allah Himself in the Quran. The Prophet Mohammad is commanded to believe in whatever scripture Allah hath sent down and that includes the Jewish and Christian scriptures. Here we are told that the Jews will do their works (ie follow their faith), the Christians will follow theirs and the Muslims theirs as we are all journeying to Allah. I am often told this refers to Jews and Christians before the revelation of the Quran but I personally see no evidence for this belief in the Quran.

An interesting note here about how sects are formed and by following conjecture lead themselves astray from the true faith held in the Quran (as happened with the faiths before):

The final sermon of the Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) was witnessed by thousands of people, yet when we look at the records we find three different versions of the sermon which state:

1) I leave with you Quran and Sunnah.
recorded by Muwatta

2) I leave with you Quran and Ahl al-bayt (meaning the family/house of the Prophet).
recorded by Muslim, ibn hanbal and darimi.

3) I leave for you the Quran alone, you shall uphold it.
recorded by Muslim, ibn Majah and Abu dawud.


Note that Muslim, who is relied upon as one of the most trusted collectors of hadith, records both versions 2 and 3.

So the arguments/disagreements that created the sects were not founded in the Quran but in the hadiths and we can see very clearly here that even something as important as the recording of the final sermon of our Beloved Prophet leaves room for huge conjecture which deeply saddens me as I feel I will never know the truth and must just follow what feels right in my heart.

But if they are averse, We have not sent thee as a warder over them. Thine is only to convey (the message). And lo! when We cause man to taste of mercy from Us he exulteth therefor. And if some evil striketh them because of that which their own hands have sent before, then lo! man is an ingrate. (42:48)

Forced conversions - I don't think so!!

And thus have We, by Our Command, sent inspiration to thee: thou knewest not what was Revelation, and what was Faith; but We have made the Quran a Light, wherewith We guide such of Our servants as We will; and verily thou dost guide to the Straight Way (42:52)

Have no doubts about the things that I say, I do believe that Islam is a right path to Allah and that the Quran teaches this path (as other scriptures have before) but my issues come from men following traditions and conjecture in preference to the Quran, which could then lead me from the straight path.